Question for Ken, Mgo, Terry and PSU...

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:50 pm

Van wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:
Van wrote:Anyway, UConn hasn't shown anything more than Stanford this year.
Stanford hasn't won a game all season. UConn has won a couple.

And before you fall back on the old (and somewhat fallacious) schedule chestnut, I should point out that Stanford has played San Jose State and Navy this year.
Stanford's also beaten ND, recently.

The last time Stanford beat ND was in '01. ND has won five straight vs. Stanford. That current win streak is the longest in the series history (although it didn't become an annual or mostly-annual matchup until 1988).

Has UConn? Has UConn beaten anybody with a pulse, ever?

Stanford's simply in a down period. It happens, especially with a major conference team who adheres to Stanford's academic standards. UConn simply cannot and will not field a competitive 1-A team.

Methinks you're being just a little (unfairly) impatient with UConn. They've only been 1-A since '00. They've actually come pretty far in that short period of time.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:57 pm

How so? They haven't done a damn thing yet.

They're a basketball school playing with blah facilities buried way up in the miserable northeast. They're never going to be able to recruit up there.

B.C.'s already got that niche covered better than UConn ever will...

Terry, in terms of comparing UConn with Stanford I think most people would agree that a Stanford win over ND in '01 counts as "recent". Also, even as miserable as they are they still took ND down to the wire as recently as last year.

Also, if what you say is true and ND's current streak of five straight wins over Stanford is the most in series history then that should tell any sane person all they need to know about how worthy Stanford's been over the years. ND has series win streaks that are much longer than that against all sorts of major programs, including USC.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:04 pm

Some interesting comparative analysis (which I'd usually say "needs foregoing"):

In 2004, Pitt lost to UConn 29-17, and then went to South Bend and passed the ball up and down the field in a 41-38 win.

UConn went 17-7 in 2003-2004. Nothing to scream about, but they have been moderately successful for a newly minted 1-A team.

Stanford has been ass-cheeks akimbo for the better part of a decade. The future looks bright, over the oft-trodden dead carcass of Walt Hairless.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:06 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Big East #5 (or MAC #4) to Birmingham Bowl vs. C-USA #3 or #4. The Birmingham Bowl would prefer to take a team from a BCS conference over one from a non-BCS conference, and USF's upset win over Pitt figures to give USF the 7 wins they'll need to justify that selection. Projected matchup: USF vs. East Carolina. This would be USF's first-ever bowl bid, so they'll certainly feel a lot is at stake for their program.

If we make a bowl game this season it would be our second. We went to the Meineke Car Care Bowl last season.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:09 pm

Stanford's only been truly bad for the last few seasons.

Stanford still owns the last visiting team victory in the Coliseum, in 2001, I believe. That same year they also beat ND.

They have a cool and fucked up band, too. That's gotta count for something.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:10 pm

Van wrote:How so? They haven't done a damn thing yet.

They won a bowl game in their first five years at the 1-A level. That has to account for something. I'm not saying that UConn is a powerhouse, or even a sleeping giant, but they're hardly the joke of 1-A, either.

They're a basketball school playing with blah facilities buried way up in the miserable northeast. They're never going to be able to recruit up there.

B.C.'s already got that niche covered better than UConn ever will...

UConn has improved significantly since they first went up to 1-A. Having one foot already in a BCS conference, no doubt, helped their program. But there's no reason why they can't continue to improve.

Also, if what you say is true and ND's current streak of five straight wins over Stanford is the most in series history

It is, but don't take my word for it. http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/di ... eamid=3088

then that should tell any sane person all they need to know about how worthy Stanford's been over the years. ND has series win streaks that are much longer than that against all sorts of major programs, including USC.

Comparing ND's series against Stanford to their series against USC is apples and oranges, just a little. ND has only played Stanford 21 times in history, and only four times prior to 1988. And let's not forget that for most of the time that the rivalry has been renewed regularly, ND has been in something of a down cycle as well, at least by its own standards. Of course, the same was true at least for the first half of ND's longest winning streak with USC.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:11 pm

In any event, the fact a debate is being entertained between Stanford and UCONN isn't making Stanford look any better, and is probably beneficial for UCONN.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:13 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:Big East #5 (or MAC #4) to Birmingham Bowl vs. C-USA #3 or #4. The Birmingham Bowl would prefer to take a team from a BCS conference over one from a non-BCS conference, and USF's upset win over Pitt figures to give USF the 7 wins they'll need to justify that selection. Projected matchup: USF vs. East Carolina. This would be USF's first-ever bowl bid, so they'll certainly feel a lot is at stake for their program.
If we make a bowl game this season it would be our second. We went to the Meineke Car Care Bowl last season.

Sorry, Mucho.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:16 pm

It's all right. It's actually a game I'd rather forget anyways. The experience was awesome though.

I'm hopeful that we can beat Syracuse and then maybe steal one from Louisville or WVU. That could help us to a better bowl if some other things fall our way, but I am pretty sure Birmingham is going to be our destination this year.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:19 pm

Mucho, nice win against Pitt...although, it looks like you guys have come to expect a win in that matchup.

Your QB looked great. Is he seriously injured?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:21 pm

Van, if the Georgia win doesn't count as a talking point for WVU, then any of the past Stanford teams, like in 2001, should have no relevance to this discussion either.

We're talking about strength of conference, as we look at the standings TODAY.

UCONN certainly has Stanford edged out. Stanford has zero wins and a loss to a 1aa.

How could that possibly be considered better? HOW?!?

How on earth could anyone argue a zero win season, including a loss to a 1AA is better? That's way beyond myopic. That's straight jacket stuff, right there.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:25 pm

Mgo, I get what you're saying about Stanford, but I'm pretty sure they don't have a loss to a 1-AA, at least not this season. Their OOC games this season have been against San Jose State, Navy and ND. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/sss

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:27 pm

My bad, the UC-Davis loss was last year. One has to think, though...that only a scheduling quirk (as in, not scheduling 1-AA teams this year) has prevented more losses to lower division teams...

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:28 pm

Mgo, I'm not arguing that this current Stanford team is better than...anybody.

Dunno where you get that I am. I'm not. If you want to say that UConn would beat this current Stanford team, fine. I don't care who wins in a cripple fight. (I said Oregon St would destroy Syracuse...or UConn. Not Stanford, Oregon St...)

I'm saying Stanford at least belongs because they have been and will again be a force in CF and UConn never has been and never will be...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:32 pm

Van wrote:UConn never has been and never will be...

That's a bold statement there to say a team will never be any good. Many (ignorants) would have said the same thing about Northwestern 10 years ago. Any team is capable of putting something together for a couple years. I don't see UCONN being a year in and year out TOP program, but 40 years ago, some said the same about a school named Florida State.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:32 pm

PSUFAN wrote:Mucho, nice win against Pitt...although, it looks like you guys have come to expect a win in that matchup.

Your QB looked great. Is he seriously injured?

Thanks PSU. Pitt had won the 2 prior games we played after our upset of them in 2001, so this was sweet payback. It was nice seeing our D play the way they should.

Grothe should be starting on Saturday. He was going to come back in, but once we got that safety it was decided to let Julmiste finish the game. I am really looking forward to the next 3 years with Grothe at QB because he's getting the offense down real nicely. I just hope he is healthy for our trips to Louisville and WVU. No one is giving us a chance and that's something that will motivate us. If we play D the way we did against Pitt, then we can win one of those 2 games.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:49 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Mgo, I get what you're saying about Stanford, but I'm pretty sure they don't have a loss to a 1-AA, at least not this season. Their OOC games this season have been against San Jose State, Navy and ND. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/sss

Oops, I was thinking as PSU was, in regards to UC Davis.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:11 pm

Okay, Indy, granted, I suppose it's possible that UConn could somehow become something of a CF power...

Anything's possible.

Like you said though, a sustained power? That'd be tough. Unlike a Florida St with its huge southern football culture and its huge local recruiting base UConn is stuck up in...Connecticut.

Not exactly a hotbed of football, not for college, pros, not even for HS football. So, they're going to have to recruit elsewhere.

There's the main problem. No top flight recruits from around the nation are going to choose a miserable weather program with no facilities, nightlife, football tradition or NFL pipeline.

UConn almost certainly will never be able to recruit enough top flight athletes to ever make a sustained dent in CF. Boston College and even Syracuse will likely continue to get the few stragglers out there who might be amenable to a program in the severe northeast. What's going to be left for UConn?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:15 pm

I'm sure the slightest deece UCONN team will get the ultimate media hype from Bristol.

And yes...ESPN DOES have influence.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:12 pm

If Troy can become a national power, I don't see any reason UCONN can't.

Sin,

CornFan

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:27 pm

Van wrote:No top flight recruits from around the nation are going to choose a miserable weather program with no facilities, nightlife, football tradition or NFL pipeline.

We agree.

Sin,

Va Tech circa ten years ago.

(And yes, I realize there's better high school football in Virginia than Connecticut, but I had to throw that dig in.)

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:36 am

Weather's a whole lot better in Blacksburg, VA compared to Storrs, CT, as well.

Pretty sure it's an eaiser social environment for a young black athlete in Virginia too. Definitely the hookers the schools hire to seduce the recruits have gotta be hotter looking in Virginia...

:-)

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:56 am

UConn ain't that far from NYC, Van. Weather and ethnicity aside for a sec...NYC is a fun place for any mofo. That town ROCKS, really.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:06 am

PSU, how far are we talking here from NYC?

Weird aside...

Just watched "Saving Private Ryan" again, with my wife, on HBO. She'd never seen it before. Her beloved dad was in the European Theater during WWII.

Man, that's one seriously powerful war movie. Amazing movie. Those cemetery scenes, jeez...

"The Greatest Generation", indeed.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:18 pm

Van wrote:Pretty sure it's an eaiser social environment for a young black athlete in Virginia too.

Not necessarily at Va Tech. Blacksburg is kinda out in the middle of nowhere.

Btw, Va Tech, at least at the time, was the #2 school in-state.

Btw, it's a little over 140 miles from Storrs, CT to NYC per mapquest. http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main ... NY&2z=&r=f

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:07 pm

Van wrote:Also, the Big East only has eight teams. Of course they're going to then have to play more OOC games than most other teams. Thing is, when you're doing your run down there, go ahead and list the names of those OOC teams the Big East played...

You won't find any real upper echelon teams there in the "W" column.

It's not for a lack of trying from the teams who play in the Big East. Here is an exerpt from Par Forde's column that should shed a bit of light on the predicament that some of the Big East teams face:

Vanderbilt backed out of a contract with the Cards that was to start next year. Everyone else in the SEC has passed at least once on home-and-home overtures from Louisville this century, according to senior associate athletic director Kevin Miller.

It's gotten to the point that Louisville is now offering neutral-site games with SEC teams. Miller said he's met with officials in Nashville about scheduling Louisville against Alabama, Arkansas or Tennessee. Athletic director Tom Jurich (10) said he's open to playing an SEC team in the Georgia Dome. They've asked ESPN for help in lining up games, too.

The takers are few -- and not just in the SEC. Among the others who have broken contracts with the Cardinals in recent years, according to Miller: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Duke and Texas Tech.

"[Football scheduling] has become the hardest part of my job," Jurich said.

SEC schools are busy filling out their schedules with home games, largely against chumps. So far in 2006 the league has produced exactly one road win against a nonconference opponent from a Big Six league: Vanderbilt over Duke. The Big East owns six road wins over Big Six opponents in 2006.

This is how you preserve the status quo: refuse to play up-and-coming programs, then howl about their allegedly weak schedules.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/ ... id=2652451

We've got future home and homes with Miami, Michigan State, NC State, Indiana and games at Florida and Auburn that were signed before we went into the Big East. I know we've talked with Nebraska and Oklahoma about 1 for 1's as well, so we're trying to make the schedule tougher.

Terry in Crapchester · Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:51 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:
Van wrote:Also, the Big East only has eight teams. Of course they're going to then have to play more OOC games than most other teams. Thing is, when you're doing your run down there, go ahead and list the names of those OOC teams the Big East played...

You won't find any real upper echelon teams there in the "W" column.
It's not for a lack of trying from the teams who play in the Big East. Here is an exerpt from Par Forde's column that should shed a bit of light on the predicament that some of the Big East teams face:

Vanderbilt backed out of a contract with the Cards that was to start next year. Everyone else in the SEC has passed at least once on home-and-home overtures from Louisville this century, according to senior associate athletic director Kevin Miller.

It's gotten to the point that Louisville is now offering neutral-site games with SEC teams. Miller said he's met with officials in Nashville about scheduling Louisville against Alabama, Arkansas or Tennessee. Athletic director Tom Jurich (10) said he's open to playing an SEC team in the Georgia Dome. They've asked ESPN for help in lining up games, too.

The takers are few -- and not just in the SEC. Among the others who have broken contracts with the Cardinals in recent years, according to Miller: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Duke and Texas Tech.

"[Football scheduling] has become the hardest part of my job," Jurich said.

SEC schools are busy filling out their schedules with home games, largely against chumps. So far in 2006 the league has produced exactly one road win against a nonconference opponent from a Big Six league: Vanderbilt over Duke. The Big East owns six road wins over Big Six opponents in 2006.

This is how you preserve the status quo: refuse to play up-and-coming programs, then howl about their allegedly weak schedules.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/ ... id=2652451

We've got future home and homes with Miami, Michigan State, NC State, Indiana and games at Florida and Auburn that were signed before we went into the Big East. I know we've talked with Nebraska and Oklahoma about 1 for 1's as well, so we're trying to make the schedule tougher.

Mucho,

I'd like to see ND go back to three games per year vs. Big East teams. Pitt is on a two-year hiatus, IIRC, but resumes in '08. Beginning in '10, we add Rutgers to replace BC as an annual opponent. We could alternate home-and-homes against the third team, maybe starting with Louisville.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:07 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Mucho,

I'd like to see ND go back to three games per year vs. Big East teams. Pitt is on a two-year hiatus, IIRC, but resumes in '08. Beginning in '10, we add Rutgers to replace BC as an annual opponent. We could alternate home-and-homes against the third team, maybe starting with Louisville.

I know the discussions were for ND to play 3 Big East opponents starting in the 2010 time frame. There was an article in Tampa Tribune back in July I believe, that stated USF and ND had talk a bit about a 2 game series, potentially in 2012-2013. I sure hope something like that comes to pass.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:01 pm

Okay, Ken, Mgo and Terry, here we are...

Louisville spit the bit. Besides Michigan-OSU we now have Rutgers as our lone BCS conference undefeated team.

Now, with a straight face, are any of you still prepared to say they deserve a #3 BCS ranking and/or first dibs on the BCS title game against the Big 10's winner if they continue on and run the table? (You know, the way people were willing to do for both W. Virginia and Louisville when both squads had accomplished even less than Rutgers has at this point...)

Seriously now. Are we ready yet to call a spade a spade or must we continue on with this P.C. charade?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:54 pm

I haven't changed my tune since day 1. An undefeated Big East team shouldn't get in over a one loss UF, Auburn, Texas or Arkansas team.

Not this year, anyway.

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:41 pm

Van wrote:Okay, Ken, Mgo and Terry, here we are...

Louisville spit the bit. Besides Michigan-OSU we now have Rutgers as our lone BCS conference undefeated team.

Now, with a straight face, are any of you still prepared to say they deserve a #3 BCS ranking and/or first dibs on the BCS title game against the Big 10's winner if they continue on and run the table? (You know, the way people were willing to do for both W. Virginia and Louisville when both squads had accomplished even less than Rutgers has at this point...)

If it's my call, there are any of a number of one-loss teams that get the nod over Rutgers even if Rutgers goes through the season undefeated. But (and I think this is the point you're missing), that leaves us with a huge conundrum. We're now in a situation where two, and only two, BCS teams are undefeated. That's precisely the scenario under which the BCS is designed to work perfectly (see USC and Texas last year), but in this case it doesn't. Time to shitcan the whole concept, imho.

Mgo wrote:I haven't changed my tune since day 1. An undefeated Big East team shouldn't get in over a one loss UF, Auburn, Texas or Arkansas team.

Not this year, anyway.

How about a one-loss Cal, USC or Notre Dame team? Or, for that matter, the tOSU-Michigan loser? Remember, all of those teams are ranked ahead of Arkansas right now.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:42 pm

Van wrote:Okay, Ken, Mgo and Terry, here we are...

Louisville spit the bit. Besides Michigan-OSU we now have Rutgers as our lone BCS conference undefeated team.

Now, with a straight face, are any of you still prepared to say they deserve a #3 BCS ranking and/or first dibs on the BCS title game against the Big 10's winner if they continue on and run the table? (You know, the way people were willing to do for both W. Virginia and Louisville when both squads had accomplished even less than Rutgers has at this point...)

Seriously now. Are we ready yet to call a spade a spade or must we continue on with this P.C. charade?

Not sure how a Rutgers win last night changes my original line of thinking earlier in the thread:

Well, yes. If a team within a BCS conference finishes undefeated, then why the hell not? If it's a SOS 'thing', then why the hell is the BE a BCS member then? A bit hypocritical of the BCS if you ask me.

Seriously, one of YOUR own teams from one of YOUR BCS conferences wins out and you won't give them a shot. Two rabbits, one hat. Waaaaay to go, BCS.

Now, do I think they'd beat a UofM or OSU? 19 of 20 times... NO. But, imo, that's beside the point as descirbed above.

I still believe that WVU is the best of the BE (yeah, yeah, whatever) and would give UofM or OSU a game. Imo, OSU would win 11-15 of 20 while UofM would win roughly 50% of 'em. Rutgers? They might win one of 20.