umich/nd rematch

[M Club]

can't fooken wait. notre dame totally went out and earned one tonight.

i did like the quip from davie about usc not wearing green shirts when musburger referenced nd's comeback against state as a possibility of things to come.

and granted, usc deserves the shot against osu more than umich does, but for all that tongue abc just stuck down usc's throat, they beat nd 44-24 at home while umich won 47-21 in south bend. that could count as consolation.

[BlindRef]

I can't even begin to tell you how dissapointing that would be.

This would be such a waste of a great season. Congrats Michigan you went 11-1 and lost your biggest rival by three on the road...you get to play Notre Dame again.

I have a hard time seeing the Rose Bowl doing it as their mission is to pitch the east vs the west. I sure hope that they pick some one else, Boise State is a more compelling matchup.

[Van]

Lee Corso's comments aside (very aside), it's gotta come down now to either ND or LSU as Michigan's Rose Bowl opponent, provided USC finishes up against UCLA. (No idea why Chris Fowler and Corso were discussing the possibility of Florida as Michigan's Rose Bowl opponent. There is no scenario by which Florida lands in the Rose Bowl. They'll either beat Arkansas and go to either the title game or the Sugar or they'll lose to Arkansas and fall out of the BCS completely as Arkansas and LSU would then command the SEC's two possible BCS slots.)

Between those two LSU is certainly more deserving now and they would almost certainly provide a tougher test for Michigan but with all due respect to Terry I just don't think the Rose Bowl committee is going to be all that deterred by the thought of a re-match.

The prestige of landing two of the top five or six programs in the history of CF, of getting Notre Dame in a Rose Bowl in Brady's last collegiate game, I just gotta imagine that such a match up is going to prove to be difficult to pass up for a bowl committee enamored with midwest football.

ND-Michigan in the Rose and Florida-LSU in the Sugar are two absolute naturals, and they make a lot of tv ratings sense...and yes, they would both absolutely suck for Michigan and Florida.

Cruel reward is what it'd be for them. No two ways around it.

[Sky]

This would be such a waste of a great season. Congrats Michigan you went 11-1 and lost your biggest rival by three on the road...you get to play Notre Dame again.

I will second that notion. What a farce that will be. How is this any better than giving the 2nd best team in the nation another shot at the Buckeyes. I don't want/think that should happen but it is a very similar scenario.

However, Weiss is too gimmicky and he will again lose to UM. If nothing else, it is one more W against ND for Michigan.

[M Club]

perhaps carr can use a nd rematch as a stepping stone towards turning the corner in rivalry games, state having been the doormat.

[FLW Buckeye]

Despite those that think otherwise, a ND vs scUM matchup is not a given. I cannot see the Rose Bowl commitee passing over a the BCS #5 or 6 team (whatever LSU is ranked in the next poll) for a team that will be fortunate to be BCS eligible.

If ND stays out of the BCS top 10, its almost a given that LSU is in the Rose.

[Van]

LSU in the Rose is the best match up and the most deserving of that match up, without a doubt.

That's what I'd prefer to see, anyway. LSU might actually beat Michigan. ND should play the SEC winner in the Sugar but if Arkansas is the SEC winner I fear another bowl game beat down for ND.

Florida-ND would probably make for a closer game. Florida doesn't really seem to kill anybody. Arkansas does, and probably would.

[Shoalzie]

If Michigan isn't going to get to play Ohio State again, I certainly wouldn't want to have to play Notre Dame again...not that I give a rip about the bowl matchups. For Michigan, I'd like to see an SEC team in there.

[bradhusker]

try again,

in my view, if nebraska beats oklahoma, the most attractive rose bowl matchup is easily, nebraska/michigan, WHY? its a revenge match for michigan, ALSO, nebraska travels better than any team in the country, the rose bowl officials surely know that their best possible matchup for michigan, would be nebraska, AND, the funny thing is this,
after watching michigan struggle against BALL st., I like the matchup,
I see brandon jackson and Lucky physically running the ball down michigans' faggott throats all day long,
in fact, should michigan put 9 in the box to stuff the run, and dare zac taylor to try and beat em'? HE WILL shred your overrated secondary.
my take? should we take care of business on saturday in KC, bring on the faggott meeeechigan team again, I look forward to beating an overrated big ten pussy squad, who barely survived who? ball st.?
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Before we get carried away, let's not forget that the ABC/ESPN hype machine has a vested interest in talking about a Rose Bowl rematch. The Rose Bowl is the last remaining BCS game that ABC will carry. The rest of the BCS goes to Fox beginning this season.

That having been said, I certainly think -- or perhaps hope is the better word -- that the BCS is a little smarter than this. Michigan-ND is a great rivalry -- in the regular season. Let's keep it there.

Bowl games, however, are a little different. Bowl game matchups are supposed to be against teams you didn't play in the regular season. I can tolerate a regular-season rematch in the postseason, if, and only if, it has national championship ramifications. Otherwise, there are more than enough teams you didn't face in the regular season to throw together more attractive matchups.

And before anybody gets the wrong impression, I still would prefer a playoff over what we have now. But that's a topic for another thread.

LSU-Michigan in the Rose and Notre Dame vs. the Arkansas-Florida winner in the Sugar. That should be a no-brainer.

in my view, if nebraska beats oklahoma, the most attractive rose bowl matchup is easily, nebraska/michigan,

Can't happen. In the scenario you mention, the Rose Bowl (with the first pick) would obviously take Michigan, while Nebraska would be locked into the Fiesta Bowl. If Nebraska loses to Oklahoma, they would no longer be locked into the Fiesta Bowl, but the BCS obviously will have no interest in Nebraska in that case.

[Adelpiero]

if notre dame gets a rematch with michigan, Michigan and its fans got robbed. they deserve a much better opponent, they earned that right. ND shouldn't even be considered for a BCS bowl. But the power to be, make it so ND will get a BCS bid.

It will be nice cleaning up on whoever faces ND in the bowl game, like free money.

[WolverineSteve]

ND has done NOTHING to merit a Rose Bowl bid.

Case closed.

[bradhusker]

hey steve, nebraska would love to run the rock down your faggott big ten throats , ONCE MORE.
and dont give me this bullshit about how great michigan is this year, I watched the ball st. game, ball st.?
you may have the rest of the country fooled, but you and I really know the truth, dont we?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Sit down, brad.

Smart people are talking.

[bradhusker]

Sit down, brad.

Smart people are talking.

OH, is that what it is called, in the big ten, smart? oh, ok, I stand corrected.

[Carson]

SEC schools like to look at the bowls as a gauge of the conference against the other conferences, particularly the Big 10.
The more big conference vs. big conference matchups, the better.

As for ND, ALL SEC schools would love the opportunity to beat them just because.

[bradhusker]

the funny thing is this,
I hear shit talk about the sec for the past three decades now!!!!!!
every single year, we hear how tough the sec is, YET, for the life of me, we see FACTS which contradict this,

2000, all the sec fans are making fun of kansas st. calling kansas st. sissies and fairies,
YET, come bowl time, big bad sec heavyweight tennessee must play K state, and the result?
k state ran the football PHYSICALLY down one of the biggest of all sec teams, the game was a joke,

in the late 90's the sec had some heavyweights, all the sec fans would make fun of nebraska,
"you guys dont play nobody" tennessee is in the tough sec, YET, when nebraska met tennessee TWICE, both times we raped and sodomized you,
the games were like watching a rhino force fuck a rabbitt,
and of course we saw nebraska rape and ass dry fuck spurriers best 12-0 team ever,

FAST FORWARD to today,
we watch as sec teams are highly ranked in the top ten early on, then, they all lose, and fall out like flies,
we watch as florida is ranked no. 3? even though they suck ass, and barely survive against crappy sc,
let me tell you something you sec faggotts,
should nebraska win the big 12 on saturday, I've got a "hard-on" the size of montanna, at the mere thought of lining up against the girly gaytors in any bowl,
any BCS bowl that is,
what an attractive matchup it would be, nebraska vs. florida in the orange?
im sick and tired of all this sec talk, "we beat each other up", yeah, but so too do faggotts,
faggotts beat one another up, just like in the sec, HUH?

[Van]

Brad, what part of "Boise St" are you failing to understand here??? You keep throwing out all these challenges to all these teams from all over the country but the Big XII winner is getting Boise St in the Fiesta and that's the best you can hope for 'cause that's predicated on Nebraska beating OU. If Nebraska loses to OU then Nebraksa ain't going BCS bowling anywhere.

The Big XII is only getting one BCS bowl bid this year, same as the Pac 10, Big East and ACC. Only the Big 10 and the SEC are getting multiple BCS bowl bids this season. If Nebraska loses to OU they're not getting Meeeeechigan and they're not getting Florida. They're getting something along the lines of The Poulon Weedeater Bowl.

Beat OU. Run "fairy football/rhino assfucking" smack at Boise St fan. That's it. That's as good as it can get for you right now.

Focus, Brad, focus.

[bradhusker]

van, if you think the highly ranked gaytors are something to be afraid of, then ive got a bridge in brooklyn for sale,
fine, if all we can hope for is boise st.
I'll take it,
nothing like beating a 12-0 team, when you're still on the way back up,
as for usc?
better hope you guys dont lay an egg in your bowl matchup,

[Dinsdale]

If Florida wins out, it should be them and UM in the Rose.

The best two available teams. And if anyone doesn't think that the Rose isn't going to pick #3 and #4, you're crazy.

[Van]

Brad, whether or not Florida is something to be afraid of isn't the point. The point is that you keep calling out teams you simply cannot meet this post season.

Where does Nebraska fall to in terms of bowl match ups if they lose to OU? I dunno. I know it won't be the Orange or the Rose and it won't involve any match ups with the #2 team from either the SEC or Big 10. I also know that if they beat OU they're getting Boise St in the Fiesta so you'd best start honing your homosmack skills with an eye first towards OU Fan and then, hopefully, Boise St fan...

Dins, Florida is definitely debatable if they beat Arkansas. There WON'T get tabbed, of this we can now be sure, but they at least have a very credible argument.

They're just too much like the '02 Buckeyes though in that week to to week they just don't look all that impressive, 'cept the '02 Buckeyes removed any chance of debate by going undefeated.

[Danimal]

Mich manhandled ND in South Bend, I can't see having a rematch when the first game wasn't very good.

[FLW Buckeye]

If Florida wins out, it should be them and UM in the Rose.

The best two available teams. And if anyone doesn't think that the Rose isn't going to pick #3 and #4, you're crazy.

If UF wins out, they, as the SEC champs, host the Sugar Bowl. The Rose Bowl Commitee can't touch them.

Here is a cut and paste from the Fox Sports Bowl Website:

2. Unless they qualify to play in the NCG, the champions of selected conferences are contractually committed to host selected games:


Atlantic Coast Conference-Orange Bowl
Big Ten Conference-Rose Bowl
Big 12 Conference-Fiesta Bowl
Pac-10 Conference-Rose Bowl
Southeastern Conference-Sugar Bowl

3. If a bowl loses a host team to the NCG, then such bowl shall select a replacement team from among the automatic-qualifying teams and the at-large teams before any other selections are made. If two bowls lose host teams to the NCG, each bowl will get a replacement pick before any other selections are made. In such case, the bowl losing the No. 1 team gets the first replacement pick, and the bowl losing the No. 2 team gets the second replacement pick. If the Rose Bowl loses both the Big Ten and Pac-10 champions to the NCG, it will receive two replacement picks.

A bowl choosing a replacement team may not select any of the following:


A. A team in the NCG;
B. The host team for another BCS Bowl;
C. When two bowls lose host teams, then the bowl losing the number one team may not select a replacement team from the same Conference as the number two team, unless the bowl losing the number two team consents.

[Dinsdale]

My bad. I knew the Rose got the first two picks, but didn't realize the contractual obligation overrided those picks.

[Van]

Unless UCLA knocks off USC Michigan is getting either LSU or ND. That's now a lock.

LSU isn't all that fitting of a reward for the season Michigan had but they're a far site more attractive reward for Michigan than ND would be at this point. Problem is, from their standpoint will the Rose Bowl committee see Michigan-LSU as being a more attractive match up than Michigan-ND?

I gotta say, probably not. LSU's attractive, yeah, but they're not Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl attractive. At best it's probably a coin toss.

[Dinsdale]

I like UM/LSU.

The "run-defense" team against a "cram it down your fucking throat" team.

Me rikey.

[Van]

Which is which??

Michigan is a good passing team and LSU now passes much more effectively than they rush the ball. Both teams feature defenses that are much better against the rush than the pass.

[Dinsdale]

While LSU has put up some gaudy passing numbers, for sure...I'm not sure I'll ever not equate LSU with pounding some faces in. Hell, their O-Line delivers punishment on pass plays.

But with as many attempts as LSU has made as the season went on, if Michigan's open-field tackling isn't better than it was against OSU, then UM might have some problems.

[Shoalzie]

I like UM/LSU.

The "run-defense" team against a "cram it down your fucking throat" team.

Me rikey.

I'd like it too...Mike Hart vs. the LSU defense, that makes for an exciting consolation cash grab game.

[Van]

Checking LSU's rushing game this whole season, that's their offensive weakness. They just can't do it. LSU is relying on Russell's arm and even his legs now for their offense. They're using the running game strictly to keep defenses honest against loading up against the passing game.

Michigan has a far more balanced offensive attack.

In terms of defense, I'd take Michigan's. Again, they're more balanced. LSU's defense has definitely regressed as the season wore on, to the point now that teams like 'Bama and Ole Miss passed the ball all over 'em and Arkansas ran on 'em at will. Michigan's D got lit up by OSU but that's to be expected with OSU's offense. Otherwise, Michigan's D is just solid, balanced and consistent; more consistent than LSU's.

The X Factors there though would be the two intangibles:

-Michigan's deflated mindset over having to "settle" for the Rose Bowl, vs LSU's elation at landing not just a BCS bowl but the grandaddy of 'em all

-LSU's recent bowl performances, vs Lloyd Carr's

Even though I believe Michigan is definitely better than LSU I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see LSU walk out of Pasadena with the win.

Dins, here's a good one for you, since you're so big into betting trends/history and betting strategy...

USC vs OSU in the title game, for all the marbles...

I'd guess that OSU would be something like a four point favorite. Now, here's the twist. USC hasn't gotten points in...over FIVE YEARS! Yep, you'd have to go back to 2001 (probably that season's ND game) to find the last time USC was the points spread underdog in any game. Now, since you know trends, add to this twist the knowledge that it's USC playing in a bowl game under Pete Carroll, and it's Ohio St coming out to California to play a Pac 10 team in a high stakes game.

Traditionally, well, that particular scenario hasn't always gone particularly well for the favored Big 10 representative, especially when USC was their bowl game opponent.

On top of all that you've got Ohio St having to wait 57 freaking days or whatever it is between the Michigan game and the title game. Ridiculously long layoff. Way too long.

Put on your wiseguy hat. What say you?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

That's pretty easy. Ohio St and the 4 points.

Still don't see USC getting blown out though. OSU by a TD.

[Van]

Ssshh, Mgo. Your "wiseguy" credentials aren't as self lauded as Dins'...

Besides, what I really want are the betting reasons there. There are some odd trends and circumstances involved in that match up and such things often scare off serious gamblers.

As for me, I agree that USC won't get blown out. It's USC in a bowl game and it's Pete Carroll coaching USC in a bowl game and somehow they've managed to again find themselves at the top. Too much talent, poise and and downright balls to get blown out.

They could win. OSU is going to likely be a bit flat after such a ridiculously long layoff. Also, somewhere in the backs of OSU's minds they've gotta feel like they've already won the title. This game is just an obligation on the way to the official coronation. Meanwhile, USC is still smarting from their blown opportunity in last year's Rose Bowl.

With apologies to Jsc, hey, they still feel like they're just one play away from three straight titles, two perfect seasons and the opportunity to make it what would've been a fourth straight national title. LOTTA pride there.

Those fuckers are going to come out fast and hard and they won't be overwhelmed by the moment, or by the reputation of their opponent. They already faced an equally strong Texas, and Vince Young. There's nothing Troy Smith can do to 'em now that'll hurt any worse...

USC will represent.

I think USC will lose though. I think USC's D is better than OSU's at this point. I think their offense is coming on strong and finally finding their identity. USC will put up a major fight and they'll probably lead the game at various points.

I just don't think they'll be able to overcome OSU's experience. USC's youth and relative inexperience is likely to mean they'll make more mistakes than a very poised and battle tested OSU squad. Tressell's a big game stud, too. No great news flash here but in an otherwise close game I just think Troy Smith's steady play and especially his scrambling/rushing ability will end up being the difference in a close game.

However, if Booty and the young Trojans can somehow limit their mistakes to where it's a wash with OSU's mistakes then I think we may yet again see another monster team lose in the title game. It also sure swouldn't be the first time a high flying OSU team came to California as the favorite in an enormous bowl game, only to go home a loser. USC has the speed and talent to consistently hurt OSU.

Assuming USC beats UCLA (let's just go ahead and play that game though anyway, just to make sure) I like OSU to beat USC, barely, maybe even in O.T.

Too solid. Sweater Vest wins again.

[Dinsdale]

Dins, here's a good one for you, since you're so big into betting trends/history and betting strategy...

But here's the deal...

I'm not.

Heck, I rarely bet much outside of casual pick'em games with my buddies(I rule) and the state-run NFL game(but they can't use the name "NFL"), which ends after this season(might have to get a sportsbook account...we'll see).

I'm not particularly into "betting trends" or history, as far as "way back" goes.

And I've never once claimed to be any sort of guru.

And that's the thing -- the things I harp on some of the clowns here about are the basic rules of sportsbetting. VERY basic. It never ceases to boggle my mind how some people who make a hobby/cash investment in sportsbetting can be so freaking ignorant of the "trends" and the resulting "freebies" that the books give.

Absolutely mindboggling.

Once you put your ego aside and realize the guys setting the lines know more about the shit than you do(hence theoir position of studying sports all day, and yours, which...isn't), you're on your way.

So I guess to answer the question, I'll wait and see...just like the bookies. And I'll fairly well disregard the "in the 1960's, Big10 teams were 8-2 against the spread in the Rose Bowl when the temperature was below 62.5 degrees," and I'll, like the bookies, make any predictions I might care to venture based upon the two teams that are taking the field. And if they see that there's uneven betting, or something "funky" going on with the betting, then I'll take their hint and bet accordingly.

As far as OSU/USC is looking, unless the line is right, I doubt I'd touch it with a ten foot pole. Either team could blow the other out, depending on how well their Wheaties went down that morning. But will probably be a close one, so if it's more than a field goal, heaven forbid 4.5 or 5.5 or something, I'd be tempted to bet the dog.

Plus, I'll be Homering for the PAC. I avoid games where I have a rooting interest altogether, although I'm generally rooting for death, taxes, and a "not guilty" verdict for Saddam before a USC victory...but Bowl Season is different(especially since my team gets a cut of the paycheck). Heck, I'll almost root for Washington during Bowl Season...almost. Unless of course they're playing Miami, in which case I'll be rooting for Al Qaeda.

[Van]

Terry will most certainly appreciate the homage...

[Terry in Crapchester]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's said that, or at least something similar.

[Terry in Crapchester]

ND has done NOTHING to merit a Rose Bowl bid.

Case closed.

ND's BCS resume, format courtesy of Shoalzie.

Opponents' winning percentage (as of now): .5396
Point differential: +120
Wins vs. Teams with 8 or more wins: 4 (Georgia Tech, Penn State, Purdue, Navy)
Wins vs. Teams .500 or better: 5 (See above, UCLA)
Losses: Michigan (11-1), USC (10-1)

With the exception of the truly elite teams this year, that matches up pretty well with anyone else in contention for a BCS bid. Just sayin'. But I still would prefer a Sugar Bowl bid.

[WolverineSteve]

Yeah but the foe would be Michigan, and we all know how that matchup played out this year. ND layed eggs in their two biggest opportunities. I have a hard time keeping them in a BCS game, let alone the grandaddy. I prefer ND anywhere but matched up with Michigan. That would be no reward for a great season. I don't know how UM could get up for that matchup. I know teams shouldn't need motivation for Bowl games...yada, yada, yada.... but this matchup would be a slap in the face...imo.

[Shoalzie]

If there's such a beef over Ohio State-Michigan II, I don't think the bowl honks would like to see Notre Dame-Michigan II especially after the Irish's second loss. Michigan should at least play another one-loss team or someone in the top 5 or 6. I'm curious to know why Florida isn't the discussion...what is the selection procedure for these infernal travesties of humanity...I mean BCmesS games?

[Terry in Crapchester]

Yeah but the foe would be Michigan, and we all know how that matchup played out this year. ND layed eggs in their two biggest opportunities. I have a hard time keeping them in a BCS game, let alone the grandaddy. I prefer ND anywhere but matched up with Michigan.

I'm with you on that one. I wrote earlier in the thread:

LSU-Michigan in the Rose and Notre Dame vs. the Arkansas-Florida winner in the Sugar. That should be a no-brainer.

I certainly hope that all of the talk about ND in the Rose Bowl was merely the result of the ABC/ESPN honks desperately trying to pimp the lone remaining BCS game on their network. But stranger things than that have happened. I'd be happy to play a regular-season rematch in the postseason with Michigan (or anyone else) when they put a playoff in place. Until then, I'd prefer to play a team we haven't faced this season in a bowl game.

My beef with you was that I read your post as attempting to assert that ND does not belong in the BCS. I disagree, especially in light of the rules that are in place (i.e., no more than one at-large bid per conference).

I'm curious to know why Florida isn't the discussion...what is the selection procedure for these infernal travesties of humanity...I mean BCmesS games?

That's been explained elsewhere. If Florida beats Arkansas, Florida wins the SEC and is locked into the Sugar Bowl as a result. Also, expect LSU to receive an at-large bid, so if Florida loses to Arkansas, they'll be knocked out of the BCS altogether.

[montinelevin]

My beef with you was that I read your post as attempting to assert that ND does not belong in the BCS. I disagree, especially in light of the rules that are in place (i.e., no more than one at-large bid per conference).

Feel free to win a bowl game... "any fucking bowl game" before you claim to be BCS worthy.

Terry, when was the last time ND won a bowl game?