USC Looked Scary Good Against ND

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Sky
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Post by Sky »

Van wrote:-By season's end a one loss USC team means USC also beat Ohio St. It won't matter how they beat OSU in the title game. ANY win there will do. At that point this debate ends and USC is declared better than Michigan by every last person here. Any exceptions will reveal themselves to be outright idiots.
I started to take that post seriously until you said this. I guess you only have 40 some days to keep thinking that way so enjoy it while you can. USC couldn't contain #10 last year so why do you think they will be able to do it this year?

But seriously, UM probably would have lost to Oregon St as well so good point about swapping schedules.

Just one last question, does a 2-loss USC team still rank higher than a 1-loss UM team? I mean given that USC is superior in most ways, even if they lose it doesn't really count, right? Strangely, this feels like we are sliding into an m2 type conversation, maybe we should stop now. OK, but seriously do I care who is better between UM and USC, no. I don't want to play UM again so USC is fine.
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Post by Snake »

I'm not of the west coast bias but........................I see a statement on this thread that is total homer.....Ohio State and USC have a wash at the running game.....WTF, Jimmy, I respect you a a poster but have you not seen A. Pittman/C. Wells run the ball. Compared to the "Freshmen by commitee" and that guy who got Straight A's after 4 years of toil, there's no comparison. I'll give a little and say USC's defense has a slight edge but with that I'll say Ohio St. has a great advantage on offense. I don't see this as being a great game/instant classic aka 2002............



Sorry 88, don't see USC the same way as you....................................
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Van
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Post by Van »

Sky wrote:
Van wrote:-By season's end a one loss USC team means USC also beat Ohio St. It won't matter how they beat OSU in the title game. ANY win there will do. At that point this debate ends and USC is declared better than Michigan by every last person here. Any exceptions will reveal themselves to be outright idiots.
I started to take that post seriously until you said this. I guess you only have 40 some days to keep thinking that way so enjoy it while you can. USC couldn't contain #10 last year so why do you think they will be able to do it this year?
I didn't say they will beat OSU. In fact, I've already predicted they won't, precisely because of Troy Smith. I'm on record here as predicting a close Ohio St victory, primarily due to my belief that Ohio St is the more mature and experienced squad so they'll play the steadier, headier and less mistake prone game.

What you quoted there is known as a hypothetical. Notice where I delineated between the previous point where I said they deserve the shot more than Michigan and that final point where I added, "By season's end a one loss USC team MEANS USC also beat Ohio St."??

It ought to be plainly self evident by now that USC cannot end this season with only one loss, not without having beaten Ohio St. If they lose to Ohio St then they will have...pay attention here...TWO losses by season's end. In order for them to end the season with only ONE loss they MUST beat Ohio St.

I didn't say they WOULD beat Ohio St, I said they'd deserve to be considered better than Michigan by all sane people IF they beat Ohio St...no matter HOW they beat Ohio St.

Sky, just for the record, that last bit is obviously "Sincerely, M.A." territory for you, me, and most everybody else here. Of course USC must be considered better than Michigan if USC should beat Ohio St. Nobody in their right mind would argue that. I only included it for the benefit of our oatmeal addled friend Mace, who still maintains that he won't consider USC to be better than Michigan even if USC beats Ohio St, at least not unless they beat Ohio St with style!
Just one last question, does a 2-loss USC team still rank higher than a 1-loss UM team?


Nope, not a chance in hell. Now, if Michigan should lose their bowl game and both teams end up the season with two losses, we'll see.
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Post by Killian »

Sky wrote:USC couldn't contain #10 last year so why do you think they will be able to do it this year?
Actually, it may be easier to stop Smith than Young because he is a much better passer. Smith is much better at throwing the ball than FJ, so he doesn't have the mind set to tuck it after 3 seconds. The biggest problem USC had last year was that they were a step slow trying to get to FJ.

That, and Smith actually takes the ball from under center from time to time.
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Post by Sky »

Hey Van, I should have been more clear in my last post. What I was saying was this: you made some good points and while I see where you are coming from I feel like we just keep going round and round about UM vs USC when that is no longer and issue (assuming you beat UCLA). Lets just move on and start concentrating on the real game at hand.
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Post by Van »

Mace wrote:
I only included it for the benefit of our oatmeal addled friend Mace, who still maintains that he won't consider USC to be better than Michigan even if USC beats Ohio St, at least not unless they beat Ohio St with style!
How could you definitively claim USC to be better than Michigan when they haven't faced each other?

Mace
USC hasn't and will not face Ball St either but I'm positive USC is better than Ball St. I've never walked on the moon either but I'm pretty sure it's cold up there.

I DO know who Michigan's played, and who USC played. By season's end (assuming USC beats UCLA) I also know both teams will've faced the #1 team in the land, the #1 barometer team, Ohio St. I know Michigan only offers marquee wins over Wisconsin and ND, and a loss to Ohio St. I know that if USC wins the title game they'll then be able to offer marquee wins over Arkansas, Nebraska, Cal, ND, UCLA and Ohio St.

I also know that if USC beats Ohio St any debate from any sane Michigan fan ends once and for all.
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Post by Van »

Sky wrote:Hey Van, I should have been more clear in my last post. What I was saying was this: you made some good points and while I see where you are coming from I feel like we just keep going round and round about UM vs USC when that is no longer and issue (assuming you beat UCLA). Lets just move on and start concentrating on the real game at hand.
Agreed. However, you did take my post and Q&P it and then comment on it ("I was taking your post seriously, until this..."), which indicated that you seriously misread (or misinterpreted the intent of) what I wrote.

As for OSU-USC, well, USC needs to win one more game first before we need to worry about it.

Disclaimer out of the way, if USC is fortunate enough to make it to Glendale then I'm just hoping they can play with poise and a steady hand. If they can limit their mistakes down to where it's a wash with OSU's mistakes then we're going to have a great game and a close game and USC will lead at some point. I don't know if they'll hang on for the win but they'll cause Ohio St fits with their offensive weapons and their defensive speed.

I'm just hoping Troy Smith doesn't scramble for close to 100 yards on the way to a 70+% rate of pass completions. If he does those things, Ohio St wins, unless there's also two picks and a fumble on his stat line. USC needs to keep his scrambling somewhat under control and they have to get enough pressure on him to where he won't be his usual efficient self.

His yardage won't matter as much as his TD/Int ratio. 4/1 will kill us. We need to keep it closer to something like 2/1, with a passing % closer to 50%, including a lot of hurries and at least a few key sacks.

Offensively, besides keeping the TOs down USC simply cannot afford this season's usual slew of unforced errors. Can't have seven illegal procedure calls. Can't kill our own drives. Can't sustain Ohio St drives with defensive penalties on third and long. USC will have to play the smartest and most efficient game they've played since before last year's Texas game. They have to make this a game about talent and play making ability and they can only do this by reducing their mistakes down to where they're a wash with Ohio St's.

I don't see it. I gotta think this USC team is much more likely to shoot themselves in the foot than this senior led and very experienced Ohio St squad. If however the shoe should end up on the other foot and for whatever reason (too tight and/or flat coming off of such a long layoff, too self satisfied, subconsciously taking the title for granted, whatever...) and Ohio St ends up being the team who makes the greater number of mistakes (or even an equal amount) then I like USC's chances to win.

I really like the idea of a Pete Carroll led USC squad coming in as an underdog, with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. That could be huge.
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Post by Killian »

Time out. A marquee win over UCLA? Then count UofM as having a marquee win over Iowa. Maybe you could also equate Cal and PSU. One team has 4 losses, the other has 3. Who knows, Minnesota may be every bit as good as Nebraska. Right now, no one can definitively say that USC or Michigan is better than the other. For as much stock as you want to put in "marquee" wins, Michigan fans could just as easily point to your loss to Oregon St, or that you needed an onside kick returned for a TD to push the ND spread to 20.

USC played an excellent OOC schedule compared to the rest of the major teams. However, USC was also helped greatly by Arkansas pulling this season directly out of their ass, and the fact that Nebraska plays in the Big 12 north.
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Post by Van »

Killian, "marquee" only insofar as it'll be a nationally televised game on the road against their blood rival, with a shot at the national title game hanging in the balance. Otherwise, of course not, not this year.

Main difference between USC and Michigan so far this season would be each team's number of quality wins vs Top 25 teams. Now, if it should turn out that USC adds win over OSU to their resume then it's a done deal. Gotta be.

For everyone but Mace, at least, apparently.
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Post by Sky »

88 wrote:Damn, dude. Maybe you ought to temper that enthusiasm. I believe I saw Michigan hang 39 on the vaunted Ohio State D in Ohio Stadium a couple of weeks ago. I think most would agree that USC's offense is much better than Michigan's offense.

Ohio State should be able to score some points on USC, but I wouldn't get too confident just yet.
I think, just maybe, that last bit of advice should have been directed at USC.
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