Saban to Bama

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:17 pm

good for you guys. makes the LSU game a real toe twister.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:27 pm

I don't know who on ESPN coined him as the Larry Brown of football but he's definitely not been someone who wants to stick with a job for very long. It would be a major surprise if he stays the length of that deal. He's a very good coach but he's got that nomad mentality...his dream job is always his next job. He'll turn around 'Bama but it's just a matter of time before he leaves them at the alter just like Coach Fran did when he left for A&M.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:30 pm

I think you should start another Saban thread and compete with m2 for most threads about one person.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:04 pm

(Since Killian woke up on the wrong side of Charlie Weis' bed this morning and locked my thread, I copied my post from a different thread)
--------------------

Both are good coaches (Larry Brown and Nick Saban) and both can turn programs/organizations around. But both have ADD. Neither can stay in one place for more than a couple of years before they need to go elsewhere. So why would Bama want him?

There are good NFL head coaches that got fired (or possibly will be fired) that I think are going to end up in college (where they belong). Jim Mora Jr is a very good coach and I think he's going to be a big-time college coach soon. You CANNOT win in the NFL when Michael Vick is your QB. He's the worst passer I've ever seen. Why not pursue him? He's more likely to stay at Alabama for a long time. Saban is gone for something else in 3 years. Or maybe even Jon Gruden. Gruden is a GREAT football coach. He's coaching for a piss poor organization right now as they've made a lot of management mistakes. Even if he doesn't get fired, I'd think he'd be likely to take a look at a good college job. And he's a better coach than Saban anyways. I think if Chucky comes to college someday, he'll stay there and not go back to the NFL.

Heck, Romeo Crenell may get the boot and he's a good coach in a bad situation in Cleveland. Maybe even Dennis Green. He's a better coach than most think.

Bottom line.....there were better long-term options for Alabama than Nick Saban.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:06 pm

TheJON wrote:(Since Killian woke up on the wrong side of Charlie Weis' bed this morning and locked my thread, I copied my post from a different thread)

No, you fucking idiot, your last thread was TROTS'D and deleted before you could read that you were already told once to take your ESPN C&P and put it in another thread.

Could Iowa get an NFL head coach that wasn't fired?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:10 pm

ESPN C&P??? What the heck is that supposed to mean??

Could Iowa get a coach that got fired from the NFL? Maybe. Getting fired from the NFL means nothing. Everyone gets fired after a few years in the NFL because management is always looking to blame the coaches even though it's them that couldn't bring in the players. Jon Gruden will soon be fired, and he is a great coach. Jim Mora Jr is a good coach too. Like I said, I'd rather have those guys than Nick Saban.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:13 pm

^^^^^^^^

Bill Cowher with the Steelers 15 years
John Fox with the Panthers for 6 years now
Brian Billick with the Ravens for what 7-8 years now
Bellicheck how many years with the Patriots? 8? 10?

yep EVERYONE gets fired after a few years...good lord you make m420TOOOL look like a Rhodes Scholar...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:14 pm

I TROTSed it and then moved it back because I don't mod this forum any longer.

Then, I said fuck it, and deleted it.

The only thing worse than a mimic thread is a glass dick thread. Two topics down was a Saban to Bama thread.

Why one feels compelled to restart a whole new thread on the same topic is beyond me. So they have their name at the top? Moreso, if you already have a topic with your name at the top, why start yet another? More popnderous...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:14 pm

I should have clarified for the retards that I mean JUST ABOUT everyone. My apologies.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:15 pm

JUST about every implies what maybe 1 or 2 don't???

oh Mike Holmgren with the Seahawks what 6-8 years now
Marty Shottenheimer with the Chargers at least 6 years
Shanahan with the Broncos what 15 years now

keep kicking your own ass...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:20 pm

Jeff Fisher Titans/Oiler - 13 years.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm

You're right, no one ever gets fired in the NFL. They hire you and you're at your job for 20 years. The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Coaches are fired left and right. Only 2 so far this year, and that's amazing considering it's usually 6-7. I'd venture to guess that the average current NFL coach has been at that job for 3 years.

Mora got booted after 3-4 years. Dennis Green after 2 years. Art Shell could get fired after his first. Romeo Crenell could be booted after his 3rd year, and if not, definitely next year. Gruden is definitely gone after next year even though he has a Super Bowl ring and won 11 games last year.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:31 pm

Let me put it this way is the only way a coach can stay at a job more than 3 years is if he works for a well run organization. Doesn't matter who the coach is. If ownership doesn't bring in good players, you have no chance to win. So that doesn't make you a bad coach because you got fired. It probably just means that your organization blows.

Off the top of my head, the coaches that have been with the same organization more than 5 years are Andy Reid, Joe Gibbs (kind of), Bill Belichik, Brian Billick, Bill Cowher (not for long), Jeff Fisher, Chucky, John Fox, Mike Holmgren, Rat Face Shanahan, and I think that does it.

So 10 of 32 have been with that organization for over 5 years (and Gibbs only kind of counts because he left the Skins for quite a few years and has only been back for 3 crappy seasons). Cowher will be gone soon. Heck, Jeff Fisher was about to get booted until they went on a run. That's a joke. Fisher is one of the best coaches in the NFL. I wish they would have fired him last year so that the Chiefs would have gone after him instead of that rambling idiot Herm Edwards.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:36 pm

ok well we have what 5 or 6 first year coaches (Peyton, Mangini, etc, etc) plus a bunch of long timers (I forgot to add Dungy and Andy Reid to the list of long time coaches)...

you were the stupid ass who opened your non-sensical piehole in the first place...there are a lot of coaches as myself and Indy named that have been around a lot longer than 5-7 years...

boy you didn't even include Shottenheimer again to go along with Dungy so you say 10 of 32 plus Dungy and Shottenhemier that makes 12 of 32 or about 40% have been in their current jobs 5 years or longer...kind of shoots your theory about EVERYONE now doesn't it...

plus a guy like Lovie Smith (Bears) 4 years I think...he ain't going anywhere for a while and Mangini with the Jets...don't think he is going anywhere for a while...

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:38 pm

The point remains, however you view Saban, he is an excellet college coach. Alabama just hired him. Do you care to revisit your "Alabama is dead, they can't hire anyone" reset?

Getting fired in the NFL usually means you did a shitty job. Kinda like getting fired at any other job. But, 'Bama just poached an NFL coach who was still employed and wasn't going to be fired at the end of this year. Iowa could not do the same.

Alabama>Iowa

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:40 pm

While I do like Fisher, his 105-93 record is not stellar. I blame most of it on the talent he has been given, but I thought previously when they had McNair, more could have been done.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:40 pm

So what's the over/under on the first http://www.firenicksaban.com page going up?

I'd say about 1 minute after his first 3 loss season is in the books.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:42 pm

Hell, with some fanatic freaks, I'd say after his secodn loss...even if it is the last game of the season

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:42 pm

I think Regular Season Marty has been with the Chargers 5 years now. Pretty certain on that. I think Dungy is in his 5th year too, isn't he? Maybe 6th. I was thinking that 2002 was his first year. I know they got pounded by the Jets in the 1st round of the playoffs that year and I was thinking it was Dungy's first year. Maybe not.

Never say a coach isn't going anywhere for a long time because this is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Mangini, Sean Payton, etc.... had good first years. Now, if they come back and have a bad year the next 2 years.....they're gone. That's just how it is.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:44 pm

Jon,

Believe it or not, CFB has become a "what have you done for me lately" league too. However, some coaches get a pass because they've earned it. The next coach to get a pass ala Bowden and Paterno will probably be Stoops, Brown or Carrol assuming they all stay and remain top programs somewhat consistently for 10 or more years.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:45 pm

Frisco,

105-93 in the NFL is pretty solid. It's so competitive. Plus, that record is misleading. His first couple years were rebuilding if memory serves me correct. Then, these last few years have been with absolutely no talent. Hard to win when your franchise player is at the end of his career on regularly injured (McNair). Now he's got a young QB and still went 8-8. If you ask me, he was the coach of the year in the AFC (not Mangini). If you want, you're free to have Herm Edwards in a trade for Fisher!

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:49 pm

Indy don't forget to add Ferentz to your list of college coaches that will get a pass...I mean going 6-7 is good for the folks in Iowa city...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:50 pm

Fisher went 1-5 (interim), 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 his first 5 years. He had a pretty good Oiler team and was .500.

He then went 13-3, 13-3, 7-9, 11-5, 12-4. This was when McNair was in his prime. McNair was often banged up but he missed very few games.

Since then, 5-11, 4-12 and 8-8. Fisher has had a total of 4 winning seasons out of a total of 13 and a lot of mediocre seasons. He's a good coach, but he has yet to be proven a great coach. I'm surprised he's been given 13 years with only 4 winning seasons. Then again, this is Bud Adams we're talking about here...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:51 pm

Quit talking on subjects you have no knowledge of. The resident Hawk fans aren't one bit happy with this season. But Ferentz has bought himself a little time because of what he's done for the program. It's been a miserable year here. But we're a little more civil in Iowa and realize that the world does not end if our team has an off season like many other fan bases. It's just a fucking game!

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:56 pm

^^^^^^

Bitter, table for one.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:56 pm

But Frisco, his first few years he was a young coach. I wouldn't disagree that he wasn't a great coach back then. Maybe not even a good coach. But he's proven since then to be a great coach. Even when McNair was in his prime, it's not like that team was loaded with superstars. Eddie George was always way overhyped. He was an average NFL running back. There was never a superstar WR. Good WR's, but not great ones. The AFC is tough. If you don't have great talent, you can't win. Put him in the NFC where he has relatively even talent with everyone else and he'd win 11-12 games, I'd guarantee it. Going 8-8 with that roster in the AFC this year was amazing. How on earth he got his team to not just lay down and quit after being 1-7 is beyond me.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:59 pm

TheJON wrote: Gruden is a GREAT football coach. He's coaching for a piss poor organization right now as they've made a lot of management mistakes. Even if he doesn't get fired, I'd think he'd be likely to take a look at a good college job. And he's a better coach than Saban anyways. I think if Chucky comes to college someday, he'll stay there and not go back to the NFL.

Wrong. He is overrated. The organization seemed fine when Dungy was here. Gruden has made one poor personnel decision after the other. He brought in Galloway and that is about it. His ego is thru the roof. He is an NFL guy and will only go to the college ranks if no other NFL team offers him a HC position.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:04 pm

The organization was fine when Dungy was there? Dungy did a great job turning that around, but dude simply could not get over the hump. The first year Chucky comes in and they win a Super Bowl. How many oportunities has Dungy had to win a Super Bowl and not been able to get it done? He's just like Shottenheimer. He always wins in the regular season but never in the playoffs. Gruden is a GREAT football coach. Don't blame him for all of the organizations mistakes. One thing is certain, they need to draft better. I have no idea why they resigned Simms. Dumb move. Gruden is best to get out of there. Dungy wouldn't be doing any better with the talent Gruden has right now on the field. Brcue Gradkowski at QB. No talent or washed up talent on defense. A mediocre O-line. Average WR's. How the heck is he supposed to win games with that roster?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:08 pm

Sure, I'll grab a jar of that as soon as you admit that it hurts you in your bathing suit area that Saban is at Alabama.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:26 pm

Well, I lied. I won't have to buy any. I have plenty left from the other two losses.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:27 pm

IMO, Saban has remained relevant because of his never-ending moves, not because of his reputedly exceptional coaching ability. If I were Bama Fan, stability would be my #1 concern, after all of the crap that has gone down.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:30 pm

Damn, I was affraid this will happen. Me thinks Jimbo Fisher may now go to Ala. to be with his old boss rather than coming to FSU. Sheeeeeeeeeeeet.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:34 pm

Jsc810 wrote:
Killian wrote:Well, I lied. I won't have to buy any. I have plenty left from the other two losses.

Good luck tonight, enjoy the game.

You too man.

Oh, and if you don't have your congratulatory post right away, I'm not hiding. I may be in the field tomorrow.

Fuck it. I think LSU doesn't give a shit about this game and isn't taking ND seriously. Because of this, I think ND will win by 7.

I can't go into a game thinking they are going to lose. No fucking fun.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:37 pm

TheJON wrote:It's been a miserable year here. But we're a little more civil in Iowa and realize that the world does not end if our team has an off season like many other fan bases.

I know you weren't adressing me, but point and case is Alabama. They went 10-2 last year and 6-7 this year and fired their guy. That's pretty shitty...

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:45 pm

If I was Mal Moore, I would already have a list of candidates ready to replace Saban, given his nature and the last 3 coaches at 'Bama.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:00 pm

Nice column in the Miami Herald

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/16374957.htm

IF edit: Just changed this to the link because of the popups.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:11 pm

Le Batard is...well...the perfect author for such a bitter article. Le Batard is a dumbfukk like no other. In fact, his name is just baiting me...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:15 pm

What the fuck? When did people in Miami start caring about football??

Terry in Crapchester · Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:26 pm

Killian wrote:Oh, and if you don't have your congratulatory post right away, I'm not hiding. I may be in the field tomorrow.

Me too. Sort of.

I have to be in Court tomorrow morning. 8:30 a.m., and it's about an hour drive from home. Shit, I may not be able to watch the end of the game tonight. :brad:

Fuck it. I think LSU doesn't give a shit about this game and isn't taking ND seriously. Because of this, I think ND will win by 7.

I can't go into a game thinking they are going to lose. No fucking fun.

I've mentioned before that Weis has solved one part of the equation as ND coach. We seldom lose games anymore to teams that we're supposed to beat. However, he hasn't been successful in the second part of the equation: pulling the occasional upset over teams we're not supposed to beat. Tonight affords him an opportunity for a rare two-fer: get on track with that objective, as well as ending the bowl game losing streak at the same time.

Maybe we'll even break out the green jerseys, given that LSU always wears white. Last time we played in the Sugar Bowl, we wore white jerseys with green numbers. That's about the closest Holtz ever came to breaking out the green jerseys.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:41 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Maybe we'll even break out the green jerseys, given that LSU always wears white. Last time we played in the Sugar Bowl, we wore white jerseys with green numbers. That's about the closest Holtz ever came to breaking out the green jerseys.

Except when he trotted out those god awful uni's against Colorado in the '95 Fiesta Bowl.

I see what you are saying, but I hope not.

But that was also the last time they were in the Sugar Bowl and no one was giving them a chance.