At least 34 dead at VaTech {G}

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:05 pm

School shootings are not exactly a rare occurence though, are they?

In an overall sense? Yes. How many schools and universities are there in the US?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:06 pm

BSmack wrote:Simple logic dictates that when you have a shooting on campus you LOCK THE PLACE DOWN.

Tuesday morning QB'ing, eh?

Lock exactly what and who down where? At the time the initial shooting occurred and by the time police would have been able to execute this lockdown, there would have been thousands of students arriving from off campus. It's not as simple as you make it sound to lock down an entire campus of that size. It IS easy however to have 20/20 hindsight.

As well, there's no proof yet that the first shooting had anything to do with the second. Everyone's initial reaction was that the first was a 'domestic' incident confined to that dorm building, which they did indeed lock down. It may still turn out to be that the two incidents were unrelated, as unlikely as that may have seemed yesterday. I tend to believe that they may have been separate shooters.

Think about it. Dude goes to the dorm at 7.15 am and offs two specific people, goes and has a cup of coffee and a bagel, then goes to the class building armed to the teeth at 9.45 and indiscriminantly slaughters 30 more? I don't know, man. That seems pretty hard to fathom as well. Seems that the description of the guy who did the first shooting was that of a white guy in a black pick-up truck, and that police are/were questioning or looking for a "person of interest".

I suppose we'll find out for sure when they get ballistic tests back.

patsy stone · Post by **patsy stone** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:08 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:
patsy stone wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:
I lived in Jacksonville, FL for 3 1/2 years while I was in the Navy. Carry laws are much more permissive there than here, yet I feel much safer here than I ever felt there.
Did you live on the Westsiiiiiiiiide?
No, I lived in Arlington. Century 21 Apartments, to be precise (not sure if they're still there).

OHHHHHHHKAY. THAT'S why you were always scared. I never go there. My best friend lives on that side of town and I refuse to go to her house. ;)

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:11 pm

I just find it humorous that the finger-pointing faction around here consisting of the usual suspects sit at their jobs every day being the ultimate authority on all subjects yet do absolutely nothing, in reality, to put their "genious" into place.

Continue to find blame, fuckstains.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:38 pm

Tom In VA wrote:Well I'd be more shocked to find that any university's police force is equipped to handle situations like this.

It would have been able to handle the situation better if they locked down the entire camps after the first shootings. I know that is easy to say now, but that should be policy from here on out. There is just no reason why 2 hours had to go by before anyone on the campus received any information.

Y2K · Post by **Y2K** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:43 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:Well I'd be more shocked to find that any university's police force is equipped to handle situations like this.
It would have been able to handle the situation better if they locked down the entire camps after the first shootings. I know that is easy to say now, but that should be policy from here on out. There is just no reason why 2 hours had to go by before anyone on the campus received any information.

What time do you think the people in charge show up to work?

I would say about 9 AM so by the time decisions are made and e-mails sent..

10 is about right.

They are human and yes things will need to be addressed on every school campus nationwide.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:49 pm

Ok, so the ballistics show that the same gun was used in both incidents.

Cho Seung-Hui, a Korean student who lived on campus did the deed. Bonus points to whoever posts his pic here first.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:10 pm

I may have to rethink my position, as I find myself agreeing with Whitey. The initial shooting appeared to be an isolated domestic incident involving two victims. If the shooter had taken down 8 or 10 or 12 people at the dorm, yeah, you lockdown the campus.

The campus police were investigating, they tracked down their “person of interest”, and were interviewing that person at the time the classroom shootings began. I chuckled at the students who were so “totally outraged” that they weren’t kept in the loop on an ongoing police investigation. Go buy yourself a fucking police scanner.

But the media are the worst. I was watching a press conference, must have been around 7 PM CST, with the college president and the campus police chief. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a ruder group of reporters, constantly trying to out-scream their compatriots with their redundant questions.

One of them asked the two men how they could appear to be so dispassionate. The cop looked like he couldn’t decide whether to strangle the questioner or bust down crying. Both men appeared to be deeply affected by what had happened, but they were just trying to do their job, informing the media, and they get a question like that.

The fact that it turned out to be one shooter doesn’t change my opinion. The police made what they felt was the right decision at the time. It made sense to me based on how they explained the series of events. In hindsight it’s easy to say they made the wrong decision. Same thing can be said of those who voted for George W. Bush.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:11 pm

War Wagon wrote:Think about it. Dude goes to the dorm at 7.15 am and offs two specific people, goes and has a cup of coffee and a bagel, then goes to the class building armed to the teeth at 9.45 and indiscriminantly slaughters 30 more?

No, he went back to his dorm, reloaded and wrote a suicide note.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:16 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:I may have to rethink my position, as I find myself agreeing with Whitey. The initial shooting appeared to be an isolated domestic incident involving two victims. If the shooter had taken down 8 or 10 or 12 people at the dorm, yeah, you lockdown the campus.

The campus police were investigating, they tracked down their “person of interest”, and were interviewing that person at the time the classroom shootings began. I chuckled at the students who were so “totally outraged” that they weren’t kept in the loop on an ongoing police investigation. Go buy yourself a fucking police scanner.

But the media are the worst. I was watching a press conference, must have been around 7 PM CST, with the college president and the campus police chief. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a ruder group of reporters, constantly trying to out-scream their compatriots with their redundant questions.

One of them asked the two men how they could appear to be so dispassionate. The cop looked like he couldn’t decide whether to strangle the questioner or bust down crying. Both men appeared to be deeply affected by what had happened, but they were just trying to do their job, informing the media, and they get a question like that.

The fact that it turned out to be one shooter doesn’t change my opinion. The police made what they felt was the right decision at the time. It made sense to me based on how they explained the series of events. In hindsight it’s easy to say they made the wrong decision. Same thing can be said of those who voted for George W. Bush.

That's a RACK

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:17 pm

War Wagon wrote:Cho Seung-Hui

I left America to get away from threats like him.

Neely8 · Post by **Neely8** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:18 pm

Was his real target the classroom and the dorm just a diversion to lure cops to the other side of campus?

stuckinia · Post by **stuckinia** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:20 pm

BSmack wrote:It's not the "media" making these claims, it is ordinary Americans with common sense. Simple logic dictates that when you have a shooting on campus you LOCK THE PLACE DOWN. Which is exactly what they did last summer when an escaped convict was on the Va Tech campus after killing 2 people.

Campus was locked down in the exact same manner as it was this past summer under an almost identical time line.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:21 pm

Neely8 wrote:Was his real target the classroom and the dorm just a diversion to lure cops to the other side of campus?

Might'a been.

Fuckin' jap plays work every time.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:22 pm

stuckinia wrote:
BSmack wrote:It's not the "media" making these claims, it is ordinary Americans with common sense. Simple logic dictates that when you have a shooting on campus you LOCK THE PLACE DOWN. Which is exactly what they did last summer when an escaped convict was on the Va Tech campus after killing 2 people.
Campus was locked down in the exact same manner as it was this past summer under an almost identical time line.

But only after the second shooting.

stuckinia · Post by **stuckinia** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:55 pm

Tom In VA wrote:Well I'd be more shocked to find that any university's police force is equipped to handle situations like this.

Exactly. The VTPD is designed to harass students for drinking and smoking pot and maybe break up the occasional fight at a frat party. The Blacksburg PD oversees a town of 10,000 permanent residents and 26,000 students. The worst crimes they usually dealt with were DUIs and stolen bikes.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:18 pm

stuckinia wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:Well I'd be more shocked to find that any university's police force is equipped to handle situations like this.
Exactly. The VTPD is designed to harass students for drinking and smoking pot and maybe break up the occasional fight at a frat party. The Blacksburg PD oversees a town of 10,000 permanent residents and 26,000 students. The worst crimes they usually dealt with were DUIs and stolen bikes.

Va Tech police have had plenty of experience with gun wielding terrorists.

sin

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:30 pm

Looks like Drudge got a pic of the shooter.

Neely8 · Post by **Neely8** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:46 pm

Damn beat me to it......

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:52 pm

BSmack wrote: No, he went back to his dorm, reloaded and wrote a suicide note.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108

From that link:

Sources tell ABC News that Cho killed two people in a dorm room, returned to his own dorm room where he re-armed and left a "disturbing note" before entering a classroom building on the other side of campus to continue his rampage.

Hmm. So, was his dorm room in the same building as the first shooting, and if so, how in hell did he get out of there when they supposedly had it locked down?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:59 pm

The initial shooting was at West Ambler Johnston, nappy-headed Cho lived at Harper Residence Hall.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:03 pm

mvscal wrote:Permit law abiding individuals the means to defend themselves in view of this admittedly inadequate security.

That may or may not make a difference in the instance of a suicidal lunatic, but you'll get no arguement from me on carry and conceal gun laws for law abiding citizens. If potential armed criminals have to worry about the average Joe packing, that could be an effective deterrent at the least

Voice of Reason · Post by **Voice of Reason** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:04 pm

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:Well I'd be more shocked to find that any university's police force is equipped to handle situations like this.
Agreed, but the blame mongers will be out in full force despite that.

There is simply no way that enough security can be provided to prevent such an occurrance from ever happening again. College already costs an arm, a leg, and half a lifetime in debt paying off student loans. So let's put armed guards in every classroom and dormitory. That'd be relatively cheap. Sure.

Here's an idear for the finger pointers. Blame the fucking perp.
Here's another "idear." Permit law abiding individuals the means to defend themselves in view of this admittedly inadequate security.

Oh, I see. You just want to blame society, rather than making criminals responsible for their own actions.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:09 pm

Voice of Reason wrote: Oh, I see. You just want to blame society, rather than making criminals responsible for their own actions.

How in the hell did you derive that mvscal was "blaming society" for the perp's actions ?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:11 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:The initial shooting was at West Ambler Johnston, nappy-headed Cho lived at Harper Residence Hall.

Checking a campus maps shows that Harper was just two buildings away from West Ambler Johnson. Norris Lecture Hall is smack dab in the middle of the lecture hall area. Which means Cho had to have passed at least 10 other instructional buildings and a dorm building or two before reaching Norris. He probably walked past thousands of fellow students without pulling the trigger. Yet, when he reaches Norris, he shoots the place up?

Mmmmmmmm

Voice of Reason · Post by **Voice of Reason** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:11 pm

Because he just called a legislative issue for the incident as being a better idea than "blaming the fuicking perp" as War suggested

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:14 pm

War Wagon wrote:
mvscal wrote:Permit law abiding individuals the means to defend themselves in view of this admittedly inadequate security.
That may or may not make a difference in the instance of a suicidal lunatic, but you'll get no arguement from me on carry and conceal gun laws for law abiding citizens. If potential armed criminals have to worry about the average Joe packing, that could be an effective deterrent at the least

That's all well and good. But I'd want a gun saftey/self defense course at least as comprehensive as a drivers ed class for those wishing to conceal and carry before they are set loose on our streets with weapons. Remember, the 2nd Amendment does provide for a "well regulated" citizen militia.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:14 pm

Voice of Reason wrote:Because he just called a legislative issue for the incident as being a better idea than "blaming the fuicking perp" as War suggested

Actually the key word "another" clued me in on mvscal's notion of ADDING to the idea of blaming the perp that we also vote on legislation to allow others to defend themselves.

Had he said "Here's a better idear", you might be ONTO something. As such, he said "another", and it makes you look you're ON something.

Get back into character please.

stuckinia · Post by **stuckinia** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:17 pm

BSmack wrote:That's all well and good. But I'd want a gun saftey/self defense course at least as comprehensive as a drivers ed class for those wishing to conceal and carry before they are set loose on our streets with weapons. Remember, the 2nd Amendment does provide for a "well regulated" citizen militia.

I believe there is a gun safety course/training required for a conceal and carry permit in VA. I am not sure how extensive it is though.

Voice of Reason · Post by **Voice of Reason** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:18 pm

Tom In VA wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:Because he just called a legislative issue for the incident as being a better idea than "blaming the fuicking perp" as War suggested
Actually the key word "another" clued me in on mvscal's notion of ADDING to the idea of blaming the perp that we also vote on legislation to allow others to defend themselves.

Had he said "Here's a better idear", you might be ONTO something. As such, he said "another", and it makes you look you're ON something.

Get back into character please.

There is more han one usage of the word "another" and the way it was used in mvscal's post was not the usuage that you are claiming.

The usage that he used it was the same as the following conversation:

Person A: "I've got an idea, let's go see Titanic"
Person B: "Here's another idea; let's not"

The usage of "another", the way mvscal used it, implies disagreement with the responded to statement.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:21 pm

BSmack wrote: But I'd want a gun saftey/self defense course at least as comprehensive as a drivers ed class for those wishing to conceal and carry before they are set loose on our streets with weapons.

Absolutely. And thorough background checks before even getting to that point.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:23 pm

VoR,

Well you've just added ANOTHER post that shows you and I disagree on ANOTHER matter.

So, my take on mvscal's use of the word ANOTHER, stands.

Voice of Reason · Post by **Voice of Reason** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:24 pm

Its not my fault that you do not understand the proper usage of the English language.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:28 pm

Voice of Reason wrote:Its not my fault that you do not understand the proper usage of the English language.

There you go again, how in the hell do you extrapolate that I'm blaming YOU for anything ?

You've just put up ANOTHER dumb post.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:30 pm

Rack IndyFrisco and Goober.

I totally agree - the "who's to blame" kneejerk mechanism is so stitched in...not only on a message board, not only with the media, but with the folks who were there, too. It's almost as if they've forgotten to blame the perpetrator of this ghastly crime, or that they're overanxious to point fingers wherever possible, as soon as possible.

EVERYbody immediately jumps in with their spin...the gun-control advocate makes a case about the overall availability of guns, and the gun ownership advocates make a case about responsible owners being robbed of self-protection.

All this - and they've probably still got the mops out...

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:34 pm

PSUFAN wrote:
I totally agree - the "who's to blame" kneejerk mechanism is so stitched in...not only on a message board, not only with the media, but with the folks who were there, too. It's almost as if they've forgotten to blame the perpetrator of this ghastly crime, or that they're overanxious to point fingers wherever possible, as soon as possible.

I think it's a perfectly normal reaction to the trauma. 33 families lost loved ones violently and suddenly. I'm not so sure I'd be able to handle that initial shock and the irrational nature of the crime and the loss of a loved with ... rationality.

Of course the media enjoys the "angles" the "spin" and the "stories". But they're fuckwits anyway.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:44 pm

Q, West Coast Style wrote:Speaking of KIp Kinkel . . . Interesting how when Long Duck Dong walked into the ACC's Virginia Tech University with 22's and 9's, students hit the deck and over thirty are killed. But when Kip Kinkel walked into Thurston HIGH SCHOOL in Springfield, ORYGUN, simarly armed, he only managed to kill two before he was bumrushed and restrained by students, including by one who took one for the team in the process.

IIRC, he shot 2 people with the 9mm...they died. He shot 23 with the 22LR...all but one lived.

Bottom line -- when you're shooting up a public building, the selection of caliber is crucial.

The kids who took him out are certified Junior Badasses.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:47 pm

PSUFAN wrote:who's to blame.

I bet this Gook spent too much time in front his PS2 playing Grand Theft Auto and the like. Therefore, I blame the gaming industry. I call for an immediate boycott of Sony and other companies of this ilk that further perpetrate racism against people of color. These slants are almost as bad as The Devil known as the white man. Yellow. White. Whatever.

Sin,
Al Sharpton

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:49 pm

mvscal wrote:
PSUFAN wrote:

I see. A Law would have made a difference.
Oh, they had their law and were pleased as punch with it. You have to be a special breed of dumbfuck to belive that the way to keep people safe is to render them totally defenseless, though.

Good job, douchebags.

studies have proven that gun control laws do not change the crime rate either way. crime doesn't increase due to more guns and crime doesn't decrease because criminals are worried about hidden heaters. THE QUESTION IS MOOT!!

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:52 pm

Yep - the idea that this guy would have been deterred from his blood spree by the idea that some of the kids might have been armed is ridiculous. The dude snapped and went on a rampage.