Pitching question

[Mister Bushice]

One thing I've never understood is situations like this:

Starting Pitcher pitches 8 awesome innings, marred only by one unearned run caused by an error on an infielders bad throw after a walk and a bunt.

Team enters 9th down 1-0, pitcher is subbed out for a hitter, and the team goes on to score two runs.

Closer comes in and gets the WIN.

the WIN?

8 innnings of a 105 pitch excellent pitching outing down the shitter, no decision, and the guy who would have come in ANYWAY to throw the 9th for the save tosses 15 pitches and gets the win?

Why is there no consideration for a starter who, through no fault of his own, gets screwed out of a victory because the team couldn't score until after he sat, but before the other pitcher threw a pitch?

[rozy]

Because baseball is bright enough to remove freaking gray areas. No situational ethics in the game a.k.a. the statistician's wet dream.

Remove judgement calls and you get pure results. Not that your liberal brain will be able to comprehend matters as such...

[Shoalzie]

When a pitcher is removed from the game in that situation, he could only lose the game since he was the pitcher of record when they were down 1-0. I do have to wonder when the pinch hitter appears in the 9th inning. The only way he'd get the win is if his spot in the order comes up and the team moves ahead prior to that happening. He's still in the game until someone else hits for him in his place or he's lifted for another pitcher.

I'm with rozy though...whether a guy deserves a win is irrelevant. Talk to any pitcher who pitches a lights out game a loses 1-0 or 2-1...it happens to pretty much all of them at some point. There really aren't any loop holes for stuff like that. If you're behind when you're removed from the game, you can't receive credit for anything other than a loss or a no decision if the game is tied or there is a lead change.

[Terry in Crapchester]

When a pitcher is removed from the game in that situation, he could only lose the game since he was the pitcher of record when they were down 1-0. I do have to wonder when the pinch hitter appears in the 9th inning. The only way he'd get the win is if his spot in the order comes up and the team moves ahead prior to that happening. He's still in the game until someone else hits for him in his place or he's lifted for another pitcher.

In the situation Bushice described, I believe the starting pitcher gets the win if I'm understanding him correctly. Here's the situation as I understand it.

Starter pitches 8 innings trailing 1-0. In T9, his spot comes up to bat and the manager inserts a pinch-hitter. His team scores 2 runs to take a 2-1 lead. Closer comes in and pitches a scoreless B9, preserving a 2-1 victory.

In that scenario, the starter gets the win, IIRC. I believe he is the pitcher of record not until he is subbed for a pinch-hitter, but until another pitcher enters the game. By the time the closer enters, his team already has the lead.

[BSmack]

What the fuck are you people talking about?

sin

The American League

[rozy]

When a pitcher is removed from the game in that situation, he could only lose the game since he was the pitcher of record when they were down 1-0. I do have to wonder when the pinch hitter appears in the 9th inning. The only way he'd get the win is if his spot in the order comes up and the team moves ahead prior to that happening. He's still in the game until someone else hits for him in his place or he's lifted for another pitcher.

In the situation Bushice described, I believe the starting pitcher gets the win if I'm understanding him correctly. Here's the situation as I understand it.

Starter pitches 8 innings trailing 1-0. In T9, his spot comes up to bat and the manager inserts a pinch-hitter. His team scores 2 runs to take a 2-1 lead. Closer comes in and pitches a scoreless B9, preserving a 2-1 victory.

In that scenario, the starter gets the win, IIRC. I believe he is the pitcher of record not until he is subbed for a pinch-hitter, but until another pitcher enters the game. By the time the closer enters, his team already has the lead.

You have the 9th inning backwards.

[Terry in Crapchester]

When a pitcher is removed from the game in that situation, he could only lose the game since he was the pitcher of record when they were down 1-0. I do have to wonder when the pinch hitter appears in the 9th inning. The only way he'd get the win is if his spot in the order comes up and the team moves ahead prior to that happening. He's still in the game until someone else hits for him in his place or he's lifted for another pitcher.

In the situation Bushice described, I believe the starting pitcher gets the win if I'm understanding him correctly. Here's the situation as I understand it.

Starter pitches 8 innings trailing 1-0. In T9, his spot comes up to bat and the manager inserts a pinch-hitter. His team scores 2 runs to take a 2-1 lead. Closer comes in and pitches a scoreless B9, preserving a 2-1 victory.

In that scenario, the starter gets the win, IIRC. I believe he is the pitcher of record not until he is subbed for a pinch-hitter, but until another pitcher enters the game. By the time the closer enters, his team already has the lead.

You have the 9th inning backwards.

I don't think so. Here's the scenario Bushice originally described.

Starting Pitcher pitches 8 awesome innings, marred only by one unearned run caused by an error on an infielders bad throw after a walk and a bunt.

Team enters 9th down 1-0, pitcher is subbed out for a hitter, and the team goes on to score two runs.

Closer comes in and gets the WIN.

That sounds to me like the closer didn't enter the game until the team already had the lead.

[Mister Bushice]

Actually Rozy was correct, you had the inning backwards. I sort of explained it backwards too, though. My Bad.

It happened in a game not that long ago. Pitcher pitched thru the top of the 8th, then his team batted in the bottom, then closer pitched in 9th, then his team scored 2 to win.

and yes, they sent the closer in when they were behind. He needed the work, the rest of the bully was tired, and the manager wanted to keep the score tight in case they pulled it out.

Because baseball is bright enough to remove freaking gray areas. No situational ethics in the game a.k.a. the statistician's wet dream.

Yeah. It's too bad they didn't remove that pesky steroid era grey area thingy when they had the chance, instead of turning a blind eye to it.

Remove judgement calls and you get pure results.

Remove judgement calls? You mean like the strike zone that changes from one umpire to another, or those close play calls that are later found out to be incorrectly made?

yeah, purity. MLB is all that.