Hire a mexican!

[Dinsdale]

A miniature chinook...how cute.

[Mikey]

You do realise that you can use natural gas to quickly and easily start logs and other "burnable shit," right?

You do realize that putting combustables in a gas firepit would clog the manifolds rather quickly, and render the gas jets useless rather quickly, right?

Note really.

Sincerely,

The gas starters installed in millions of wood burning fireplaces over the past 100 years or so.

(maybe the U&L hasn't caught on to this advancement yet...)

[Dinsdale]

The gas starters installed in millions of wood burning fireplaces over the past 100 years or so.

He didn't say anything about a "gas starter," now did he?

He said it was a gas-fired pit. If it's a standard gas-type pit, throwing wood on top of the manifolds would be silly.

[Dinsdale]

You might want to quit while you're behind. This won't end well.

OK. Go out to your gas grill. Pile some wood on top of the manifolds and light it. Tell me how that works out for you.

Hint: This won't end well.

[Mikey]

Hint: With Dinsdale involved this won't end anytime in the near future.

[Cuda]

Behr stain

Junk.

I used Behr stain on my deck that I put together not using square-headed screws.
I am so totally fucked, I’m going to go sit in my basement and wait for a sheet of
drywall to fall off and crush me.

Let me guess... You didn't pull a building permit for your deck either?

Your thoughts, Dins?

[Goober McTuber]

Junk.

I used Behr stain on my deck that I put together not using square-headed screws.
I am so totally fucked, I’m going to go sit in my basement and wait for a sheet of
drywall to fall off and crush me.

Let me guess... You didn't pull a building permit for your deck either?

Your thoughts, Dins?

Cooter,

Quit looking for others for your thoughts, try to formulate a couple of your own.

[Cuda]

Just answer the question, Susie. You didn't pull a permit for your deck, did you?

[Dinsdale]

Let me guess... You didn't pull a building permit for your deck either?

Your thoughts, Dins?

Would depend on the local building department.

If it's homeowner built, and isn't more than 30" off the ground(round here, anyway), who gives a shit?


Big fucking difference between throwing a ground-level deck out behind your house, and finishing a basement(complete with electrical work), and taking a massive financial hit for not having any additional square footage to show for it, and probably having to tear down the sheetrock to allow inspection when the house is sold.

BIG fucking difference.

[Goober McTuber]

You really want to go through this again? First of all, I will not take a financial hit when I sell the house, I will cash in nicely on some sweat equity. Not the first time I’ve done this.

I have about 1,000 square feet finished in the basement. No bedrooms, but then again, I didn’t want any more bedrooms, I wanted a huge play area. Which is what I got. And I would have had to excavate a second exit to put another bedroom down there even if I had wanted to chop up the basement.

Inspections are not mandatory on a sale here, though they can be included as a condition of sale.

BTW, the rule on decks here is that you need a building permit if the deck is in any way attached to the house (mine is). I’ve seen dozens and dozens of decks go up around here, never seen a building permit for any of them.

[Dinsdale]

I have about 1,000 square feet finished in the basement.

You know what you call a "finished" basement done without permits?

It's called "an unfinished basement." With sheetrock hung in it.

Newsflash -- you don't get to decide how many SF your house is...the county does. Tell me you knew?

And I would have had to excavate a second exit to put another bedroom down there

Yeah. People who do those prjects for a living call that "egress." Kind of essential when finishing a basement. No egress = not "living space." "Finish" it like the Taj Mahal -- it's still "unfinished."

Inspections are not mandatory on a sale here, though they can be included as a condition of sale.

Are you retarded?

I'll try and help -- when you buy a house, you're not buying the house. A finance company is(assuming you don't pay cash), and then is transferring ownership to you through an agreement.

But go ahead and find me the finance company that buys a house without having it inspected first...I won't hold my breath. And guess what -- when you check "yes" in the box that asks about unpermitted work(assuming you're not committing fraud), the inspector is probably going to want to see this unpermitted electrical work, unless the buyer is a chump, and agrees to a waiver(which the finance company might have a big problem with).

Have fun tearing that shiney new sheetrock down.

BTW, the rule on decks here is that you need a building permit if the deck is in any way attached to the house (mine is). I’ve seen dozens and dozens of decks go up around here, never seen a building permit for any of them.

Are you the building inspector, or do you go door-to-door pretending to be one when you see someone building a deck?

You've never seen one? I didn't realize your neighbors were required to show you their permits.


But regardless...no one gives a shit about an unpermitted deck(unless it's more than 30" off the ground). If you jump up and down on it and it doesn't break, it's fine. BIG fucking difference between enclosing improvents inside walls. Unpermitted electrical and plumbing work ARE a big fucking deal, and chances are someone is going to want to see it.

I always enjoy the laughter that ensues when someone takes an absolute beating from not doing it the right way, and having their world crash around them when they try and sell their house. One of the more recent examples I saw ended up costing the dumbass about $20K or so by the time all was said and done...wasn't too shabby a basement, actually...except the uninspectable finished product, and the noncompliant shit underneath. That incompetant owner thought he knew what he was talking about, too....his bank account learned better of it, though.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to make some calls regarding our next project, which may or may not involve installing some egress to gain "living space." Just got off the phone discussing the last one, which didn't have a basement, but got a slight modification to make the converted-garage egress kosher.

[Goober McTuber]

And I would have had to excavate a second exit to put another bedroom down there

Yeah. People who do those prjects for a living call that "egress." Kind of essential when finishing a basement. No egress = not "living space." "Finish" it like the Taj Mahal -- it's still "unfinished."

I don’t care how you want to define it, but here in God’s Country we are allowed to have a basement with a single exit as long as there no one sleeping down there. You know, bedrooms.

Inspections are not mandatory on a sale here, though they can be included as a condition of sale.

Are you retarded?

I'll try and help -- when you buy a house, you're not buying the house. A finance company is(assuming you don't pay cash), and then is transferring ownership to you through an agreement.

But go ahead and find me the finance company that buys a house without having it inspected first...I won't hold my breath. And guess what -- when you check "yes" in the box that asks about unpermitted work(assuming you're not committing fraud), the inspector is probably going to want to see this unpermitted electrical work, unless the buyer is a chump, and agrees to a waiver(which the finance company might have a big problem with).

Have fun tearing that shiney new sheetrock down.

Funny, last house I sold five years ago had an unpermitted finished basement. No inspection was done, the house was financed and the sheetrock is still holding. But feel free to continue talking out of your ass.

BTW, the rule on decks here is that you need a building permit if the deck is in any way attached to the house (mine is). I’ve seen dozens and dozens of decks go up around here, never seen a building permit for any of them.

Are you the building inspector, or do you go door-to-door pretending to be one when you see someone building a deck?

You've never seen one? I didn't realize your neighbors were required to show you their permits.

See, this is what happens when you start talking out of your ass about things you know nothing about. Yes, my neighbors are required to show me and the rest of the world their building permits. They have to be posted on the front of the house. It's the law. :wink:

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Funny, last house I sold five years ago had an unpermitted finished basement. No inspection was done, the house was financed and the sheetrock is still holding. But feel free to continue talking out of your ass.

Can you clarify this? You sold a house and the people who bought didn't have it inspected? Or.... it was inspected and no one cared about the basement work?

[Goober McTuber]

Funny, last house I sold five years ago had an unpermitted finished basement. No inspection was done, the house was financed and the sheetrock is still holding. But feel free to continue talking out of your ass.

Can you clarify this? You sold a house and the people who bought didn't have it inspected? Or.... it was inspected and no one cared about the basement work?

They did not have it inspected as a condition of sale. If they had it inspected, nobody questioned my work. Which is, of course, quite plausible. An inspection is not required as part of a sale here, either by law or by any financial institutions that I’m aware of.

An appraisal, on the other hand, is almost always done. It typically consists of some dude walking around with a tape measure, calculating square footage. Which then gets incorporated in the sale documentation. Dinsdale was right, I don’t get to specify the finished square footage. I get to have the buyer’s appraiser do it for me.

[Cuda]

Funny, last house I sold five years ago had an unpermitted finished basement. No inspection was done, the house was financed and the sheetrock is still holding. But feel free to continue talking out of your ass.

Can you clarify this? You sold a house and the people who bought didn't have it inspected? Or.... it was inspected and no one cared about the basement work?

My guess is he sold his shack to BSmack

[Dinsdale]

See, this is what happens when you start talking out of your ass about things you know nothing about.

Obviously. Not like I'm involved in those sort of projects for a living, or anything.

Yes, my neighbors are required to show me and the rest of the world their building permits. They have to be posted on the front of the house. It's the law.

Round these parts, if it was for the deck, it would probably be posted out near the deck, where the inspector could find it easily. If there's work inside the house, then it's either posted on or adjacent to the front door, on on the garage door. Here in the U&L, we're smart enough to post the permit near the exterior project it's for.

You sold a house and the people who bought didn't have it inspected? Or.... it was inspected and no one cared about the basement work?

If it's anything like around here(and since most finance companies are national, not local), he's either completely talking out of his ass, or he gets RACKs for finding an absolute rube to buy his house. Or, he lied on the disclosure forms, which around here is punishable with a full refund of the purchase price of the home(while the buyer still retains ownership), plus punitive fees up to that amount.


Still waiting on the name of the financial institution that buys people houses without having them inspected first. C'mon Goobs...pony up that name...I'll recommend them to lots of people...fucking gold mine, right there.

Or were you just talking out of your ass, Goobs?

[Y2K]

But, the idea of a fire pit is that you do have time. Time to sit around with friends, watch shit burn and get drunk. This very ancient custom should not be sullied by gas power.

Using the gas isn't a requirement for the campfire type fun mmmkay?

Take a look at the pit and note the statement I made about it fitting the standard Weber Kettle Grill & Hood. Using the gas to keep the heat at say 175 to 200 degrees and adding the wood flavor of choice while cooking a big ole pork loin or whatever chunk of meat about 6 hrs while getting drunk and hanging with fliends can be quite fun as well. The firepit's nothing but a good example of the way shit should be built without need to draw up any blueprints in Spanish or take a gamble with your money and accept todays current form of mediocrity and shit construction because some tenured PHD doesn't consider pushing a wheelbarrow of brick mortar a price paid for a "proper" education.

These are the same fucks who considered Vocational Training a waste of time and money and had them ripped from our educational system. Sure the walls on your 300 Grand superhome may be a bubble off plumb but.....

Just ask our fucking fearless leader, It's just an occupation American's should share with Fence Jumping Illegals because It doesn't have any real negative effect on America, doesn't require any real training, keeps inflation in check and keeps all the big money donations rolling in at election time.

Yes, We DO get what we pay for.

[BSmack]

Funny, last house I sold five years ago had an unpermitted finished basement. No inspection was done, the house was financed and the sheetrock is still holding. But feel free to continue talking out of your ass.

Can you clarify this? You sold a house and the people who bought didn't have it inspected? Or.... it was inspected and no one cared about the basement work?

My guess is he sold his shack to BSmack

If he did, he took out all the sheet rock before I saw it. My basement is decidedly unfinished. But it makes for a good place to use the gym equipment.

[Cuda]

My guess is he sold his shack to BSmack

If he did, he took out all the sheet rock before I saw it. My basement is decidedly unfinished. But it makes for a good place to store the gym equipment.

FTFY

[Mikey]

Not sure what you mean by "inspected".

San Diego County has pretty strict enforcement of building codes and you can't get a permit signed off without an inspection. Where I live people are always trying to get around one section of the code in particular by putting up an "ag building", which is permitted differently than, say, an extra bedroom or a "casita" that consists of extra living space. They then turn the "ag building" into an in-law quarters or rental space. The deal is that the septic systems are approved for a certain number of bedrooms and, if you go over that, you need to expand your leach field and possibly the holding tank.

But the County (or City or State or whatever) does not inspect a home that is sold (your are required to get a termite inspection). The buyer is allowed to hire an independent inspector to go in and find things that need to be fixed. The bank sends an appraiser (not an inspector), who basically measures square footage and counts rooms. If his result is different than what's in the county recorder's records, this will definitely throw up a red flag. Any unpermitted space will show up here. But the appraiser is not an "inspector" per se, as he has nothing to do with building permits or enforcing code.

[BSmack]

FTFY

Wrong again oh guru of the unemployment line. I don't have a ton of gear. But what I have gets used as frequently as low income tax credits in your household.

[Goober McTuber]

See, this is what happens when you start talking out of your ass about things you know nothing about.

Obviously. Not like I'm involved in those sort of projects for a living, or anything.

Yes, my neighbors are required to show me and the rest of the world their building permits. They have to be posted on the front of the house. It's the law.

Round these parts, if it was for the deck, it would probably be posted out near the deck, where the inspector could find it easily. If there's work inside the house, then it's either posted on or adjacent to the front door, on on the garage door. Here in the U&L, we're smart enough to post the permit near the exterior project it's for.

You sold a house and the people who bought didn't have it inspected? Or.... it was inspected and no one cared about the basement work?

If it's anything like around here(and since most finance companies are national, not local), he's either completely talking out of his ass, or he gets RACKs for finding an absolute rube to buy his house. Or, he lied on the disclosure forms, which around here is punishable with a full refund of the purchase price of the home(while the buyer still retains ownership), plus punitive fees up to that amount.


Still waiting on the name of the financial institution that buys people houses without having them inspected first. C'mon Goobs...pony up that name...I'll recommend them to lots of people...fucking gold mine, right there.

Or were you just talking out of your ass, Goobs?

Dins,

You aren’t involved in those sort of projects around here. Obviously.

Here, the permit goes on the front of the house, regardless of where on the premises the work is being done.

Regarding your last point, please see my prior post regarding inspection vs. appraisal. I imagine that’s the cause of your confusion. Well, that and trying to apply U & L rules to God’s Country.

I’m pretty sure that here we don’t have that box specifically targeting unpermitted repairs, probably because it’s not that big an issue around here. Because even the retards around here can do work equaling that of a professional in the U & L. But just to be safe, I always enlist the services of an ambulance-chaser in the sale of a house.

[Dinsdale]

Dinsdale was right, I don’t get to specify the finished square footage. I get to have the buyer’s appraiser do it for me.

Huh?

Do you live in Bang;adesh or something?

The buyer's appraiser does nothing of the sort, nor does any other appraiser.

The COUNTY keeps track of SF. Period. And they don't give a shit what the appraiser says. If the appraiser finds a discrepancy, it can be brought up with the county(and chances are, they'll find the appraiser made a mistake).

I guess this needs explaining -- when a house is built, plans are submitted to the county. These plans list the square footage. This number doesn't change, unless the correct applications are made to the county, the proper permits are pulled, and the work is inspected according to schedule. Only then can square footage be added to the dwelling.

Period. EOS. Not open for discussion.

You because you, an appraiser, or the Man in the Moon decide it's bigger, it don't mean shit. But if the appraiser finds more SF than what's listed with the county, that's when the fireworks start, and the dumbass who thought he could arbitrarily start claiming phantom square footage generally takes a beating.


BTW -- just happened to get off the phone with my realtor/contractor/flipper buddy I work with occasionally. Said out of the last 150 deals, about two were buyer-inspected, the rest were properly done. Says anytime you start dealing with the "we don't need no stinking inspection" crowd, it's always a real treat, since you're now dealing with mouthbreathers, who are going to find a new, creative way to fuck a deal up. Those people are also known as "BWAHAHAHAHA, WHAT A TARD!!!!"

[Mikey]

Not sure what you mean by "inspected".

San Diego County has pretty strict enforcement of building codes and you can't get a permit signed off without an inspection. Where I live people are always trying to get around one section of the code in particular by putting up an "ag building", which is permitted differently than, say, an extra bedroom or a "casita" that consists of extra living space. They then turn the "ag building" into an in-law quarters or rental space. The deal is that the septic systems are approved for a certain number of bedrooms and, if you go over that, you need to expand your leach field and possibly the holding tank.

But the County (or City or State or whatever) does not inspect a home that is sold (your are required to get a termite inspection). The buyer is allowed to hire an independent inspector to go in and find things that need to be fixed. The bank sends an appraiser (not an inspector), who basically measures square footage and counts rooms. If his result is different than what's in the county recorder's records, this will definitely throw up a red flag. Any unpermitted space will show up here. But the appraiser is not an "inspector" per se, as he has nothing to do with building permits or enforcing code.

How quaint and old fashioned. We aren't going to do it that way anymore. All these requirements for licensed contractors and permits and inspections are all too burdensome for our new Mexican labor force, so we're just going get rid of these antiquated and racist regulations which disenfranchise our good friends, the Mexicans.

Quality homes are a wasteful luxury and contribute to global warming. I'm asking everyone except for myself and my friends to explore the spacious comfort and affordability of environmentally friendly tar paper shacks.

100 million Mexican peons can't be wrong...can they?

Sincerely,

Jorge Arbusto, Deciderer

We'll just annex Tijuana.

Then we can all go and view thousands (millions?) of wonderful examples of this modern cardboard box construction method.

[Goober McTuber]

Dinsdale was right, I don’t get to specify the finished square footage. I get to have the buyer’s appraiser do it for me.

Huh?

Do you live in Bang;adesh or something?

The buyer's appraiser does nothing of the sort, nor does any other appraiser.

The COUNTY keeps track of SF. Period. And they don't give a shit what the appraiser says. If the appraiser finds a discrepancy, it can be brought up with the county(and chances are, they'll find the appraiser made a mistake).

I guess this needs explaining -- when a house is built, plans are submitted to the county. These plans list the square footage. This number doesn't change, unless the correct applications are made to the county, the proper permits are pulled, and the work is inspected according to schedule. Only then can square footage be added to the dwelling.

Period. EOS. Not open for discussion.

You because you, an appraiser, or the Man in the Moon decide it's bigger, it don't mean shit. But if the appraiser finds more SF than what's listed with the county, that's when the fireworks start, and the dumbass who thought he could arbitrarily start claiming phantom square footage generally takes a beating.


BTW -- just happened to get off the phone with my realtor/contractor/flipper buddy I work with occasionally. Said out of the last 150 deals, about two were buyer-inspected, the rest were properly done. Says anytime you start dealing with the "we don't need no stinking inspection" crowd, it's always a real treat, since you're now dealing with mouthbreathers, who are going to find a new, creative way to fuck a deal up. Those people are also known as "BWAHAHAHAHA, WHAT A TARD!!!!"

Hey, I don’t really care how they do it up there in the U & L, I’m just telling you that here in the Moscow of the Midwest, inspections are not in any way required to sell a house. I’m just going on my experience in selling a house here, something that I don’t believe you have. Here, or anywhere else.

[Dinsdale]

Goobs...what part of "props for finding a complete dumbfuck to buy your house" didn't you understand?

[Cuda]

The COUNTY keeps track of SF. Period. And they don't give a shit what the appraiser says. If the appraiser finds a discrepancy, it can be brought up with the county(and chances are, they'll find the appraiser made a mistake).

Or, if they're feeling the need to justify their jobs, they'll figure out that the homeowner made an alteration without the required permit(s) and send out a Code Inspector to issue a violation & summons to said homeowner

But if the appraiser finds more SF than what's listed with the county, that's when the fireworks start, and the dumbass who thought he could arbitrarily start claiming phantom square footage generally takes a beating.

True. There's also this little thingie called Loan Fraud which no appraiser- who wants to avoid a prison cell and a nightly ass-fukking for the next 40 months- is going to give even the appearance of cooperating with.

BTW -- just happened to get off the phone with my realtor/contractor/flipper buddy I work with occasionally. Said out of the last 150 deals, about two were buyer-inspected, the rest were properly done. Says anytime you start dealing with the "we don't need no stinking inspection" crowd, it's always a real treat, since you're now dealing with mouthbreathers, who are going to find a new, creative way to fuck a deal up. Those people are also known as "BWAHAHAHAHA, WHAT A TARD!!!!"

It ain't so much that those no-inspection-needed Tards fuck deals up, it's that they invariably want to sue everybody in sight when they finally figure out ( long after the deal is done, btw) that they fucked up.

[Goober McTuber]

Still waiting on the name of the financial institution that buys people houses without having them inspected first.

The yellow pages here are full of them.

Goobs...what part of "props for finding a complete dumbfuck to buy your house" didn't you understand?

The white pages here are full of them.

[Dinsdale]

Still waiting on the name of the financial institution that buys people houses without having them inspected first.

The yellow pages here are full of them.

OK...to clarify...while the lender may not require it, it would be strongly recommended.

And why wouldn't anyone with brains do so? You end up with someone else to blame when shit goes wrong.

Goobs...what part of "props for finding a complete dumbfuck to buy your house" didn't you understand?

The white pages here are full of them.

[KC]Often found under the McTuber section.[/KC]

[Mikey]

Hint: With Dinsdale involved this won't end anytime in the near future.

[Dinsdale]

Hint: With Dinsdale involved this won't end anytime in the near future.

Mikey -- you...not very smart.

Who brought up building permits and hatchetted home improvements?

Hint: Not me.

[Atomic Punk]

Behr stain

Junk.

Since I'm going to paint/stain a fence in the next few days... please enlighten me. I'm going with a darker solid stain as the wood is old. I'm not using semi-transparent as you can see different aged pickets. I'm also looking at sealing and coloring the concrete slab that is what is called the porch.

[Dinsdale]

I'm going with a darker solid stain as the wood is old.

You're not planning on going over the old greyed-out shit, are you? If so, buy whatever's cheapest -- it won't be around long anyway.

If the wood is really crappy, solid colors are a great way to go. Still not a bad idea to clean it up, either with wood bleach, or a light pressure wash.


Superdeck makes great stains. Ben Moore makes great stains, but like all of their other products, they want an arm and a leg for them.


Behr coatings are JUNK. I don't give a fuck what some consumer rag says, if you talk to anyone who deals with coatings, they'll tell you they're junk. I'll take their word over that of some dudes in labcoats, any day.

I'm also looking at sealing and coloring the concrete slab that is what is called the porch.

Depends how fancy you're getting. You can tint it and pile coats of concrete laquer on it, or you can use a simple urethane concrete paint. Usually pretty cheap. Not a bad idea to put a little thinner in the first coat, which will give a little better penetration for a better bond, and really load the second coat on. Usually holds up pretty well.


But like all other home/comercial renovation advice...I made that up out of thin air.

[Goober McTuber]

Still waiting on the name of the financial institution that buys people houses without having them inspected first.

The yellow pages here are full of them.

OK...to clarify...while the lender may not require it, it would be strongly recommended.

And why wouldn't anyone with brains do so? You end up with someone else to blame when shit goes wrong.

Goobs...what part of "props for finding a complete dumbfuck to buy your house" didn't you understand?

The white pages here are full of them.

[KC]Often found under the McTuber section.[/KC]

No, I'm the seller in these deals, not the buyer. When I bought a pre-owned home there was an inspection contingency. It's really not all that difficult.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Funny, last house I sold five years ago had an unpermitted finished basement. No inspection was done, the house was financed and the sheetrock is still holding. But feel free to continue talking out of your ass.

So you hung some sheetrock in a basement. I am assuming you also included some nifty outlets, lights, switches and whatnot... were these done according to code? That's all I was really getting at with my earlier question to you in this thread.

[Invictus]

Goober, if I can ask, and you feel like telling, what is the neighborhood where this house is located? Eastside? Westside?Downtown? From your description of the house, I had initially thought of the Willy Street/Atwood area but I could be wrong.

Enlighten me.

[Goober McTuber]

ucant,

Yes, I put up a number of can lights, wall sconces, and outlets. I also wired for cable at both ends of the basement and ran some monster cable from one end to the other. I have a good friend who lives about a half hour away who knows twice as much as Dinsdale about all the construction trades. He walked me through anything I wasn’t sure about.

He also put up some interior walls to enclose the mechanicals and also set up a laundry room and a half bath. He also built me a 10 foot long bar with a black walnut surface.


Vic,

The house I sold was in the Atwood area. The new one is closer to East Towne, off of Thompson and north of highway T.

[Invictus]

Vic,

The house I sold was in the Atwood area. The new one is closer to East Towne, off of Thompson and north of highway T.

I knew it. I could tell just from the kind of house you were describing the area it was in. You probably sold the house to some unsuspecting lesbians (Maybe Chief Amesqua?) who just wanted to live somewhere close to Monty's Blue Plate.

The prospective buyers of a house off Thompson and T will be a little more savvy. You should have stuck it to the dykes!

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I have a good friend who lives about a half hour away who knows twice as much as Dinsdale about all the construction trades.

Good.

I am not in the trade, but I do know a fair amount about "the business." When I used to work for Gold's, we were always renovating an old gym or building a new one. I picked up a thing or two about building codes along the way. I always get a chuckle out of seeing how your average home owner has hacked their way through "finishing" their basement. You can usually tell just by walking in and checking outlet placement to see it's compliant with the 6-12-2 national standard. If it not, you start to wonder what's going on beneath the sheetrock. Is the frame all crooked? Stud placement? What kind of wire was used. Anyways... good for you. It's better to do it right the first time around...

[Mikey]

What's a basement, and what does it take to finish a slab-on-grade?

Sincerely yours,
California