Who's Gonna Do Your Scut Work?

[LTS TRN 2]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article. ... ERWor03120

So, the nervous Nelly GOP criminals have succeeded in passing this disastrous measure.

So...who's gonna pick YOUR grapes?

Ready to watch the economy tank so some sanctimonious Rovian fuckstain can spew some drivel from behind his gated compound?

Are you ready to WAKE THE FUCK UP!!! (you will soon!)

[smackaholic]

you mean to tell me that law enforcement folks are gonna actually start ....enforcing laws? Holly shit!!!!!!!!

Quick, somebody get the ACLU on the phone.

[Blueblood]

"I'm your worst nightmare"!

Jews

[BSmack]

They needed extra training to learn how to check papers?

[Goober McTuber]

Nothing of interest.

Looks like you got another thread moved, Wacky Wack. And I had nothing to do with it. Who you gonna cry to about this one? ‘Cause I don’t want to find any more tear-stained missives in my inbox.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

So...who's gonna pick YOUR grapes?

Legal immigrants, people who need work...the only reason that the illegals do it is because the farmers generally pay crap wages and treat them like Morlocks. If they raised the pay rate and improved conditions, then more legal folk would do the work. Would it cost ME more? Sure, but, contrary to the farmers' mewling, the consumer will pay it.

And you know what? Necessity is the mother of invention. If human labor is truly cost prohibitive, then some enterprising individual will come up with mechanical means to harvest the crops. Farmers, illegals, and the hand-wringing leftists all argued that cracking down on illegal migrant workers would destroy tomato farming and drive up prices...and BEHOLD...a mechanical harvester was developed and used. The dire predictions never came to pass. It's the 21st century - stop using 19th century harvesting methods.

I have no fucking sympathy for the criminals who seep into my country without following the legal procedures. None. Most of those fuckers are making the money to send back to Mexico and have no interest in becoming citizens of this country. Fuck 'em. My family, OTOH, came here as immigrants and followed the proper procedures. The scumbags who ooze across the border illegally now have done nothing to warrant being allowed to skip the same proper procedures. Follow the rules or get kicked out. It's not bigotry, it's the law.

I also have no sympathy for the farmers (or companies) who knowingly hire a largely illegal workforce. Fuck them also. These selfish pricks whine when migrant advocates demand better wages and living conditions for the workers and whine when the government actually tries to enforce the law. If they honestly can't stay in business unless they continue to violate the law (which is complete horseshit), then they deserve to go under.

And fuck the hand-wringing "advocates" of the illegals (including the brain-dead "sanctuary city" folks) who hide the illegals, argue against enforcement, and betray their own nation to "protect" a bunch of criminals.

[Dinsdale]

If they raised the pay rate and improved conditions, then more legal folk would do the work.

Screw that... continue the status quo. Tax all of the legal residents of this country, and take that revenue to continue paying inner city nogs to not work. Heaven forbid they become productive, and actually contribute to the economy of this country, rather than dragging it down with every ounce of their being.

And getting the nogs out of the ghetto and scattered across rural areas? Man, wouldn't that be horrible -- they'd be flashing gang signs every time they tipped a cow.


You don't even want to put me in charge of welfare and immigration reform -- something might actually get done.

[LTS TRN 2]

Hey....Where's my grapes!? Who's going to mow the lawn??? Waaaaaaaaaa!


"I'm a spoiled clueless puppet"!

Jews don't necessarily support Zionism

[Neely8]

The cost of produce might increase. However your health care costs would decrease because we wouldn't have 12 million illegals getting free health care. I think it's a fair trade off.....

[LTS TRN 2]

There's something to the point of illegals rolling in and sucking the public teat. But to suggest that 12 million are ALL on welfare is categorical bullshit. Fact is, they generally work hard and help out this country. It's certainly true that rapacious corporate entities like WalMart enjoy importing thousands of illegals to work in their warehouses for minimal wage. As for "new" machanized means to harvest crops, once again L-Rat, you're writhing within your Ayn Rand JO session.

Higher prices for lettuce? That's only the start. You haven't thought this through.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

As for "new" machanized means to harvest crops, once again L-Rat, you're writhing within your Ayn Rand JO session.

Really dumbfuck? Then prove that what I stated regarding the mechanization of tomato harvesting was untrue.

When the crackdown was going to happen with tomato farms, the same leftist hand-wringing and dire threats of skyrocketing tomato prices and farm failures were made.

The free market and innovation made those predictions (and the predictors) look stupid.

If a farmer refuses to either pay more or use mechanization, then he frigging DESERVES to fail and let other folks do the job he is unable or unwilling to do. End the price supports, subsidies, protectionist tariffs, and exemption from labor & immigration law for those freaks.

You haven't thought this through.

That pretty much sums up every post from you, Wacky-Whack.

[Felix]

End the price supports, subsidies, protectionist tariffs, and exemption from labor & immigration law for those freaks.

you mean make them actually compete in a competetive market....

what kind of lunacy is that.....

[LTS TRN 2]

Oh sure, we start with "mechanized" tomato pickers and pretty soon we're dealing with this..


Start looking at the North American continent as a single entity, and the borders as increasingly obsolete contrivances. The people are real, a single swath of varying hues from Yucatan to Yukon. And, by virtue of NAFTA and similar Free-Market niceties, money is real. That is, the transnational flow of money surges oblivious to borders and visas. Well, the real people--in this case Mexicans--are actually doing their part to work their way up from survival to living, and by sheer arbitrary designation of a terrified GOP, a basic functioning member of the team, as it were, is essentially, getting fired from their work. And that's work that helps us, and for which we now must pay extra.

This bill does not in any way address illegal immigration as far as preventing a welfare sucking cholo subculture--your plain fear. Rather, this astonishingly stupid act directly attacks the very men and women who are actually working hard and contributing.

[Neely8]

How are they contributing without a social security number? Are there taxes taken out of their checks like mine? Medicare? Fica? Blah Blah....

[Goober McTuber]

Who's Gonna Do Your Scut Work?

In this particular case, it looks like m2/Blueblood did.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

Oh sure, we start with "mechanized" tomato pickers and pretty soon we're dealing with this..

Really bad cartoons? The horror!

Look, you Luddite freak, the replacement of manual labor with machines is a GOOD thing. Defending an antiquated methodology in the name of the alleged human rights of the parasites who came here or price increases is frigging brainless. It's the 21st freaking century - it's time that farmers stopped relying on 19th century harvesting methods just because it's currently cheaper for them.

Start looking at the North American continent as a single entity, and the borders as increasingly obsolete contrivances.

Fuck that "one world community" bullshit. I like borders. Like Bobby Frost said, "good fences make good neighbors."

No nation has a moral obligation to let anybody in. Deciding who we're going to let IN is a damned good minimum expectation for national sovereignty. Regulating IMMIGRATION is not immoral. Regulating EMIGRATION is (folks should be allowed to "opt out" of a nation if they chose).

Well, the real people--in this case Mexicans--are actually doing their part to work their way up from survival to living, and by sheer arbitrary designation of a terrified GOP, a basic functioning member of the team, as it were, is essentially, getting fired from their work. And that's work that helps us, and for which we now must pay extra.

The Mexicans with which we are concerned are coming here to do work at wages that depress what should get paid and send their wages back to their home country. They have no interest in joining OUR nation or contributing to it. The United States to these leeches is not freedom or liberty or true opportunity - it is merely a means to a financial end. The Mexicans who come here as I described are blood-sucking parasites and make it harder for Mexicans who honestly want to come to the U.S. to become Americans.

By the way, since the aforementioned leeching Mexicans CHOSE to come here, I don't want to hear shit from you or any self-appointed "advocates" about how they're being oppressed. Those criminals have no right to complain about shit after breaking the law in coming here illegally.

[MickBastard]

Start looking at the North American continent as a single entity, and the borders as increasingly obsolete contrivances.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
THIS comment right here is the best possible example of ideologues spreading a mental plague that could destroy our country. America is AMERICA because it is NOT Mexico or China or Zimbabwe. It is a unique place that has no equal in history. The founding ethics and resolve of American men and women made it into the place that millions of people dream of becoming citizens of. Key words there - become citizens/become Americans. Like my ancestors did, and I assume yours did too.

I can't comprehend this current intellectual trend of apologizing and actually DEFENDING illegals' sneaking in and benefiting from our strong economy and spitting on our culture while importing their own (not all of them do this, but assimilating is what makes immigrant Americans). It's like laughing in the face of an oncoming bullet. Very trendy nowadays. The best part - the liberal politicians pushing for amnesty (or "bending over") will not have their lives affected by a massive shift in the work force. That's the part that so many people miss - the rich elite candidates crying for the plight of the downtrodden are full of shit; they use this "jobs that Americans won't do" phrase because they will never be in a position to lose their job to a lesser-paid illegal. Only the skin of their servants and landscapers would change.

Any business that hires illegals should be held accountable, but the issue begins and ends at the border. I feel betrayed by the President's policy of inaction on enforcement.

[PSUFAN]

Clearly, he is beholden to interests that demand cheap, unregulated labor.

[LTS TRN 2]

Your myopic jingoism is completely obsolete. Look around your trailer home right now. How many items are actually manufactured in the U.S.? Take a look at a list of the top, say, fifty American corporations, and find out how much tax they paid last year. Now look at an actual H1 visa. It's just a scrap of paper.

You are typically--and childishly--insisting that all the undocumented Mexicans are bums and cheats. While there may indeed be some illegals who are criminals, the bill in question precisely, and quite perversely, targets only the hardworking men and women who are doing tough jobs. They're working for us. And they're not just picking grapes and tomatoes, they're doing a lot of construction as well. They do their part to make our economy strong.

L-Rat, your entire argument is really nothing more than a handjob for the corporate plutocrats and wannabe tycoons that view the nation and world not as a society of people, but as a means to make money. And this is ultimately a vile and false paradigm.

[OUMO]

Maybe more mexican immigrants could get a higher education and not work shit jobs if they were willing to learn english first. Just a thought.

[LTS TRN 2]

I'll bet the average undocumented Mexican standing on a U.S. corner waving at passing trucks for work speaks better English than you speak Spanish. Wanna bet?

[MickBastard]

Because that's relevant.....? We're not illegally entering there country. Americans speak English. Bottom line, you seem to be far more on the side of illegals (who are criminals by our laws) than legal citizens. We can't extend the privileges that come with being a citizen to everybody in the world, unfortunately. I seriously think you must not have to worry about income, or taxes, or anything at all to have such a cavalier attitude about millions of illegal citizens. Your merciful stance towards illegal aliens is cruelty to honest hardworking Americans. And no I don't live in a trailer home...If I wanted to add an unsubstantiated personal comment, I'd guess that you are sitting in your leather armchair in the political science department at UC Berkeley with your head wedged up your asshole.

[Trampis]

You're a northeastern idiot Mike the Lab rat.Some snobby gamma gamma whatever who knows nothing of agriculture.

An orchard worker picking apples/cherries can make anywhere from min wage to 15-17 dollars an hour depending on how fast they can work.Thats not bad for unskilled labor.You can not,I repeat,can not get white americans out to work in orchards,fields for the day.They would rather collect unemployment/move in with a relative,get welfare, then associate with something deemed Mexican laborish.Farmers dont want white people,they whine and complain and are not reliable.Mexicans work hard!I have tons of respect for them.

Follow me closely on this...there is NOT ENOUGH LABORERS TO HARVEST THE CROPS!I repeat,not enough people to harvest the crops.The pickers know this so every morning they find out which farmer is paying the most and go there to pick for the day.One day you have a crew to pick apples,the next day you dont.Its total lieing bullshit that they work for slave wages,BULLSHIT.Dont believe any New York radio commentators on this.

Mechanical harvesters.As soon as the american public accepts mass-bruised apples and other fruit with scarring we will never see mass use of mechanical harvesters.It scars the fruit and doesnt sort out the bad apples.Americans want there fruit and veggies uniform and shiny.

I probably missed something else stupid you posted about ag Mike,forgive me, I damn tired from sitting in a tractor all day.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

You're a northeastern idiot Mike the Lab rat.Some snobby gamma gamma whatever who knows nothing of agriculture.

Agriculture is the #1 industry in the county in which I live.

Nice swing and a miss on your part, Beavis.

By the way, my family WERE "agriculturally oriented" back in Italy. They owned vineyards, olive orchards, fig orchards, etc. (my great-grandfather was the padrone who owned the farms). My family came here (in 1920) LEGALLY, with the specific INTENTION OF BECOMING AMERICANS. The parasites that are oozing across the border are coming here illegally and with no intention of becoming Americans. Like all parasites, they should be removed, and those aiding them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Follow me closely on this...there is NOT ENOUGH LABORERS TO HARVEST THE CROPS!I repeat,not enough people to harvest the crops.The pickers know this so every morning they find out which farmer is paying the most and go there to pick for the day. One day you have a crew to pick apples,the next day you dont. Its total lieing bullshit that they work for slave wages, BULLSHIT. Dont believe any New York radio commentators on this.

Here's a clue, dipshit - if there is a strong demand for a service but few are willing to provide that service, that's a strong indicator that the wages and/or benefits being offered for the service are BELOW what laborers want and for which they are willing to work. It doesn't frigging matter what you or I or the farmer thinks is a "good wage" - if folks aren't willing to do the work for that wage, then the wage is, according to the market, too low. Period. That's how supply and demand works.

Mechanical harvesters. As soon as the american public accepts mass-bruised apples and other fruit with scarring we will never see mass use of mechanical harvesters.It scars the fruit and doesnt sort out the bad apples.Americans want there fruit and veggies uniform and shiny.

Another swing and a miss, genius. Mechanical harvesters are used for tomatoes, which is a softer fruit than apples.

Step into the 21st frigging century or be rolled over by progress...

Farmers, in general, get no frigging sympathy from me. The dairy industry is immorally propped up with price supports, the corn farmers are bilking the country with the whole corn ethanol horseshit, farm subsidies are a scam, and now farmers are demanding that they sob...weep... NEED to have illegal workers from Mexico in order to do their jobs. Horseshit. There's no amount of special pleading on the farmers' parts that justifies all the taxpayer-funded gifts they've been getting as it is, let alone exemptions from immigration law. Farmers are trying to be the exception to the laws of supply and demand and have been able to wrangle the pork they've gotten due to some wistful, Norman Rockwell nostalgia on the part of their fellow citizens (and the weepy claims that they are "the backbone" of this nation....horseshit) and by lobbying (like any other self-interested profession). There is nothing uniquely noble about manual labor or farming. It's a frigging industry. Compete better or fail.

[Dinsdale]

Great. Trampis is all for illegal immigration because he directly profits from it.


On the other side of the coin, you have MtLR, who is waxing on clueless, and has obviously never been in a farm field in his life.

Tell me more about these mechanized harvesters that can pinpoint grape clusters that have been infested with powdery mildew, Mike?

They have machines that harvest grapes. They're only used in large, low-quality vineyards. Because machines can't distinguish between good fruit and bad fruit.

I agree, both in this example and overall, with Mike's takes on the free-market solving all problems... because it's true. Too bad he's tainted his posts by using examples he's absolutely clueless about to make his point.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

On the other side of the coin, you have MtLR, who is waxing on clueless, and has obviously never been in a farm field in his life.

Pay attention. I live in an area in which you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a farm. Agriculture is the #1 industry of my county (Livingston). I drive past farms every frigging day. The air here reeks of manure and the delightful emanations from the local alfalfa processing plant. Most of my student come from farm families. I grew up in a rural section of the upper Hudson Valley and had friends whose families ran farms. My dad's grandfather OWNED farms.

Somehow, criticisms from you regarding what I allegedly do or do not know about farms from don't really hold a hell of a lot of water.

Tell me more about these mechanized harvesters that can pinpoint grape clusters that have been infested with powdery mildew, Mike?

Go ahead and find me the post in which I addressed grapes in my mechanization example.

Go ahead.

I'll wait...

....

Couldn't find it, could you?

Trampis mentioned apples.

I've been mentioning tomatoes, which was relevant because farmers made similar claims years ago about how illegal laborers were absolutely vital the harvest of THAT fruit. Turns out that they were whiney little bitches who just wanted a cheap source of labor and ceased their pathetic lies once technology was developed to make their use of manual labor obsolete.

The only reference I EVER made to grapes was when I mentioned that my grandfather owned vineyards...in Italy...before 1920.

But go ahead and argue that whole grape thing, as if I brought it up.

They have machines that harvest grapes. They're only used in large, low-quality vineyards. Because machines can't distinguish between good fruit and bad fruit.

That's correct, for the technology we have RIGHT NOW. But, as I seem to recall, computers are getting faster and more sophisticated, and that assuming that the technological limitations currently in effect will STILL be in effect in the future (especially if a great need for more sophisticated/more sensitive devices..and the profits to be had in developing them, spurs innovation). As long as farmers are allowed to get away with hiring illegals for manual labor, there's not much incentive for anyone to work on the technology. Once farmers have to -as they did with tomatoes- learn to live without illegals, the push will be on for the new technology.

I agree, both in this example and overall, with Mike's takes on the free-market solving all problems... because it's true. Too bad he's tainted his posts by using examples he's absolutely clueless about to make his point.

Too bad you've tainted YOUR post by citing a crop no one but YOU has brought up. If you're going to snipe, at least be accurate.

I don't think that the free market can solve EVERY problem, but I do think it can solve a hell of a lot of the ones we do have and that pork/protectionist crap like farm subsidies, tariffs, price controls, etc. should be shitcanned.

[Dinsdale]

Somehow, criticisms from you regarding what I allegedly do or do not know about farms from don't really hold a hell of a lot of water.

No, what I say about it doesn't mean that much. However, what YOU said speaks volumes.

Too bad you've tainted YOUR post by citing a crop no one but YOU has brought up.

Uhm... Mike...

Uhhhhh....

So...who's gonna pick YOUR grapes?

Legal immigrants, people who need work...

Uhm... I was actually adressing crops that were brought up...by someone else... in...oh, say, the ORIGINAL POST IN THE THREAD.

You DO r4emember that one, right? Uhm, you DID kind of directly respond to it, and all.

If you're going to snipe, at least be accurate.

One word comes to mind: "Priceless."

Resort to absolute lies in your retort, then chide others for not being "accurate." Classic.

I don't think that the free market can solve EVERY problem, but I do think it can solve a hell of a lot of the ones we do have and that pork/protectionist crap like farm subsidies, tariffs, price controls, etc. should be shitcanned.

Couldn't agree more.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

Uhm... I was actually adressing crops that were brought up...by someone else... in...oh, say, the ORIGINAL POST IN THE THREAD.

Whoops.

My mistake.

I got so far into the debate that I forgot that LTS mentioned them that one time.

Resort to absolute lies in your retort, then chide others for not being "accurate." Classic.

"Absolute lies?"

I made a mistake in forgetting that LTS mentioned grapes once and that I BBS-quoted it once to start my rant. Referring to that as "absolute lies" is excessive. And inaccurate.

I don't think that the free market can solve EVERY problem, but I do think it can solve a hell of a lot of the ones we do have and that pork/protectionist crap like farm subsidies, tariffs, price controls, etc. should be shitcanned.

Couldn't agree more.

And you realize that we'll be branded as Ayn Rand worshippers by the nutjob, right? Hell, I've never even read her stuff. I've been told that it's dry and poorly-written.

EDIT: fixed that danged quote tag...

[LTS TRN 2]

All I want is a good Free-Market acolyte to lay me down...sigh

[OUMO]

I'll bet the average undocumented Mexican standing on a U.S. corner waving at passing trucks for work speaks better English than you speak Spanish. Wanna bet?

No, you will win there, but the next time I take a course in higher education that I need to know spanish "besides spanish" I will give it a thought.

I will just go ahead and take my endeavor into latin and not be such a joto.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

I'll bet the average undocumented Mexican standing on a U.S. corner waving at passing trucks for work speaks better English than you speak Spanish. Wanna bet?

Speak it? I'll agree with you.

Read it and/or write it? I'd take the bet. Almost every frigging migrant farmer kid that gets dumped into my district is illiterate IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE. This goes up to and including high school. Seems that oozing across the border and making $$$ to send back to Mexico doesn't leave their kids' education (in either language) as much of a priority.

[BSmack]

You're a northeastern idiot Mike the Lab rat.Some snobby gamma gamma whatever who knows nothing of agriculture.

An orchard worker picking apples/cherries can make anywhere from min wage to 15-17 dollars an hour depending on how fast they can work.Thats not bad for unskilled labor.You can not,I repeat,can not get white americans out to work in orchards,fields for the day.They would rather collect unemployment/move in with a relative,get welfare, then associate with something deemed Mexican laborish.Farmers dont want white people,they whine and complain and are not reliable.Mexicans work hard!I have tons of respect for them.

Follow me closely on this...there is NOT ENOUGH LABORERS TO HARVEST THE CROPS!I repeat,not enough people to harvest the crops.The pickers know this so every morning they find out which farmer is paying the most and go there to pick for the day.One day you have a crew to pick apples,the next day you dont.Its total lieing bullshit that they work for slave wages,BULLSHIT.Dont believe any New York radio commentators on this.

Mechanical harvesters.As soon as the american public accepts mass-bruised apples and other fruit with scarring we will never see mass use of mechanical harvesters.It scars the fruit and doesnt sort out the bad apples.Americans want there fruit and veggies uniform and shiny.

I probably missed something else stupid you posted about ag Mike,forgive me, I damn tired from sitting in a tractor all day.

We could try this...



Of course that would require a measure of self sacrifice and we all know damn well that ain't gonna fly.

[Dinsdale]

I don't think that the free market can solve EVERY problem, but I do think it can solve a hell of a lot of the ones we do have and that pork/protectionist crap like farm subsidies, tariffs, price controls, etc. should be shitcanned.

Couldn't agree more.

Amended -- Except about tariffs.

I'm all for massive tariffs on foreign goods. Like the Old Days. Enough tariffs that it funds the entire federal government.

We're the freaking USA, for chrissakes. You wanna get you some of this, it's gonna cost you.