Question for the Refs here...

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:24 am

watching the highlights of the games this weekend and seeing LSUs trick play vs South Carolina I had this question.

I know that a holder for a FG or XP can have his knee down to recieve a snap and then get up and throw a pass, he couldnt throw a pass from his kneeling position, wouldnt the same rule apply to a lateral and he would have to get up off of his knee before pitching the ball?

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:08 pm

I'm not sure of NCAA rules, but it would not be legal in National Federation (most high schools) games.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:47 pm

Yeah it's my understanding that the place holder would have had to get up off his knee to make that pitch as well. It should have been challenged and reversed if I my understanding of the rule is correct.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:11 pm

There was not conclusive video showing whether or not you could swipe a pubic hair beneath his knee or not so I would have to say the ref made the correct (no) call.

Sin,
Lefty

;)

See You Next Wednesday · Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:34 pm

NCAA Football Rules

Rule 4: Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Out of Bounds

Section 1: Ball in Play; Dead Ball

Article 3: Ball Declared Dead

Alive ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:

b. When any part of the runner’s body, except his hand or foot, touches the ground or when the runner is tackled or otherwise falls and loses possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his body, except his hand or foot. (Exception: The ball remains alive when an offensive player has simulated a kick or is in position to kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or advanced by rule) (A.R. 4-1-3-I).

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:23 pm

wouldnt the holder have to get up off of their knee before passing or advancing the ball? Otherwise Kick Block teams can just start slamming the holder since theyre not sure of his intentions even if he is still down on his knee

GreginPG · Post by **GreginPG** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:38 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:wouldnt the holder have to get up off of their knee before passing or advancing the ball? Otherwise Kick Block teams can just start slamming the holder since theyre not sure of his intentions even if he is still down on his knee

No, I'm guessing not.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:29 pm

So if Im coaching Special teams, my guys are going to try and blast the holder on every attempt because even with his knee down, until the ball is kicked, they cant be sure that the other teams intention is to kick the ball.

See You Next Wednesday · Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:30 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:wouldnt the holder have to get up off of their knee before passing or advancing the ball? Otherwise Kick Block teams can just start slamming the holder since theyre not sure of his intentions even if he is still down on his knee

Well I assume you could slam into him if he was holding the ball. Once the ball is kicked, however, I think the roughing penalties come into affect.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:33 pm

even if the defender leaves his feet before the ball is kicked? refs cant expect a player to stop from a full sprint in less than 2 steps

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:35 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:even if the defender leaves his feet before the ball is kicked? refs cant expect a player to stop from a full sprint in less than 2 steps

Why would you try to slam into the holder, instead of going after the ball?

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:13 pm

just to make sure they dont try any more fakes, plus if you smack the holder a few times, it can throw off the rythm of their kicking game, possibly causing them to miss kicks later int he game.
Who knows, if South Carolina knows a guy can pitch the ball while he is kneeling on the field, maybe they have someone over there to contain the play

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:25 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:just to make sure they dont try any more fakes, plus if you smack the holder a few times, it can throw off the rythym of their kicking game, possibly causing them to miss kicks later int he game.
Who knows, if South Carolina knows a guy can pitch the ball while he is kneeling on the field, maybe they have someone over there to contain the play

your just fucking retarded.

no bones about it.

Thank god some dildos are allowing you to teach kids sports and sportmanship

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:43 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:just to make sure they dont try any more fakes, plus if you smack the holder a few times, it can throw off the rythm of their kicking game, possibly causing them to miss kicks later int he game.
Who knows, if South Carolina knows a guy can pitch the ball while he is kneeling on the field, maybe they have someone over there to contain the play

If you are able to get to the holder a few times before the ball is kicked, you are blocking the kick

Since most teams are not able to get to the holder a few times before the ball is kicked, you would be roughing him after the ball is kicked.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:40 pm

See you next Wednesday gave you the rule book answer. The way it is applied across the country in NCAA rules is the same. The holder is an exception to a normal dead ball. As long as he is in the "normal" holder position at the snap the ball stays alive even with his knee on the ground. He doesn't have to stand up to throw the ball or to hand it off. He also can stand up to catch a high snap and then put his knee back on the ground to hold for the kick as long as it is done without a break.

even if the defender leaves his feet before the ball is kicked? refs cant expect a player to stop from a full sprint in less than 2 steps

Are you serious or just trolling for a response? Why can't we? We already expect defenders to not hit the kicker and he is a moving target? The holder is no different than the kicker or snapper on these plays. Each is in a defenseless position for at least part of the play.

So if Im coaching Special teams, my guys are going to try and blast the holder on every attempt

Exactly the reason you are not coaching! Let me guess you would also coach your return man to go and return the kick out of the endzone once he muffed it on the three and it rolled into the endzone.