I would need to see the play...
But simply having possession with a foot inbounds isn't usually good enough. He has to have control of the ball, usually a quick play like that isn't possession.
It sounds like they made the right call.
OK, Lefty, BlindRef, gimme some backup here...
Moderators: 88BuckeyeGrad, Left Seater, buckeye_in_sc
BlindRef wrote:I would need to see the play...
But simply having possession with a foot inbounds isn't usually good enough. He has to have control of the ball, usually a quick play like that isn't possession.
It sounds like they made the right call.
Ya fucking think??????
Sincerely,
Eric Affholter, SuC, 1987
“It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.”
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indyfrisco
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I'm with Froz and Blind here. May want to check with jtindall though to be sure.Believe the Heupel wrote:Gimme some ammo. I'm getting a lot of "Well, I talked to a PeeWee Football coach and he said it was a TD." I'd like to come back with "Well, I talked to an NCAA ref, and he says it's incomplete."
Thanks.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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indyfrisco
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I did find this rule though. I didn't see the play so I cannot be completely sure, but I think the interpretation here would be that since the receiver and defensive player were wrestling for the ball, it may have appeared to the ref that it was a simultaneous catch. Since the simultaneous catch was "completed' out of bounds, it was ruled incomplete. Had it remained in bounds, it would have been a TD.
Kind of a stretch, but it's all I could find in the rulebook that was remotely close to the situation you described.
Kind of a stretch, but it's all I could find in the rulebook that was remotely close to the situation you described.
Completed Pass
ARTICLE 6. Any forward pass is completed when caught by a player of the
passing team who is inbounds, and the ball continues in play unless completed
in the opponent’s end zone or the pass has been caught simultaneously by
opposing players. If a forward pass is caught simultaneously by opposing
players inbounds, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing team
(Rule 2-2-7) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-6-I-IX).
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Left Seater
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Tough Call without seeing the play live.
I wish I could give you rule book section, article, and page, but you can look all day and find things to support either a TD or no catch.
Let's remove the defensive player for a second just for the sake of arguement. Same throw, foot inbounds, player hits the ground and holds onto the ball, I think you have a TD. Same exact thing and the player hits the ground and the ball comes out, incomplete pass. What is the difference? Nothing by rule book, but just a judgement call. By rule if the ball is "controlled" for a fraction of an instant it is a catch. However, officials nor any human for that matter can see in fractions of instants, so by practice the player must hold onto the ball for longer. In the NFL you will hear mention of controlling the ball to the ground and football moves. We don't speak as much to that in the college game, but they still apply.
In the same situation with what you described, I would call an incomplete pass. The receiver did get a foot in, but since he didn't have the ball when he stood up, it is incomplete.
But at least you have this from an NCAA official and not a Pee-Wee coach. Hell, the next coach I meet that knows the rules as well as I do will be the first. Furthermore the younger the level of football the worse their knowledge of the rules becomes. "Pee-Wee" or Pop Warner, etc have their own rules. Hell, only two states in the country even have their High Schools play by NCAA rules, TX and MA.
I wish I could give you rule book section, article, and page, but you can look all day and find things to support either a TD or no catch.
Let's remove the defensive player for a second just for the sake of arguement. Same throw, foot inbounds, player hits the ground and holds onto the ball, I think you have a TD. Same exact thing and the player hits the ground and the ball comes out, incomplete pass. What is the difference? Nothing by rule book, but just a judgement call. By rule if the ball is "controlled" for a fraction of an instant it is a catch. However, officials nor any human for that matter can see in fractions of instants, so by practice the player must hold onto the ball for longer. In the NFL you will hear mention of controlling the ball to the ground and football moves. We don't speak as much to that in the college game, but they still apply.
In the same situation with what you described, I would call an incomplete pass. The receiver did get a foot in, but since he didn't have the ball when he stood up, it is incomplete.
But at least you have this from an NCAA official and not a Pee-Wee coach. Hell, the next coach I meet that knows the rules as well as I do will be the first. Furthermore the younger the level of football the worse their knowledge of the rules becomes. "Pee-Wee" or Pop Warner, etc have their own rules. Hell, only two states in the country even have their High Schools play by NCAA rules, TX and MA.
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Reads like some discussions on a couple of official's boards
that I frequent. Goes to show that some calls are indeed very very difficult to make.
And afterwards no consensus may happen when they are discussed. Trust me
(38 years of High School in CNY and SW FL) that goofy things can happen and
happen so fast that you get this "nanosecond mental snap shot" and have to
figure out what happens in the next second or two. All the rules reading, testing,
interpretation meetings, etc. cannot prepare an official/ref/umpire for those calls.
You just make one try to "sell" it and hope you are right. When you get to D-1 and
NFL level, if you are wrong in a big close game, your career could end there.
that I frequent. Goes to show that some calls are indeed very very difficult to make.
And afterwards no consensus may happen when they are discussed. Trust me
(38 years of High School in CNY and SW FL) that goofy things can happen and
happen so fast that you get this "nanosecond mental snap shot" and have to
figure out what happens in the next second or two. All the rules reading, testing,
interpretation meetings, etc. cannot prepare an official/ref/umpire for those calls.
You just make one try to "sell" it and hope you are right. When you get to D-1 and
NFL level, if you are wrong in a big close game, your career could end there.