ESPN's Top 10 WRs of All Time

[poptart]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=3309223" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ummm .........

Michael Irvin is the 4th best WR evar?? har har har

Is that for real?


Randy 'I Quit' Moss is #2??

Not.

As a football player, Don Hutson would have wiped his @ss with Randy Moss.


Thanks for the giggles, ESPN.

[BSmack]

Don Hutson???

What would that draft dodger do? You do realize Hutson's numbers are grossly inflated because he, unlike most healthy men, played in the NFL during WWII? Ranking Don Hutson over any top modern day receiver is nothing more than a nod to the past, not a ranking based on any statistical or physical reality.

[RumpleForeskin]

I would so put Sterling Sharpe on that list before Michael Irvin and T.O.

[poptart]

Hutson was a two time league MVP, and despite playing almost 100 yrs ago, a handful of his significant records STILL stand.
He ushered in the passing game.

He also played safety (well) and was the Puker kicker.


Candy fucking Moss doesn't rate.

[Goober McTuber]

Don Hutson???

What would that draft dodger do? You do realize Hutson's numbers are grossly inflated because he, unlike most healthy men, played in the NFL during WWII? Ranking Don Hutson over any top modern day receiver is nothing more than a nod to the past, not a ranking based on any statistical or physical reality.

Uh, you want to find a link for that draft dodger bullshit? How about you put this in your google and let me know what you find:

+"don hutson" and +"world war II" and +"draft dodger"

So every able-bodied man who wasn’t drafted and then did not choose to enlist is a draft dodger?

Hutson is credited with creating many of the modern pass routes used in the NFL today. He was the dominant receiver of his day and is widely considered to be one of the greatest wide receivers in NFL history, holding almost all important receiving records at the time of his retirement. As of the end of the 2007 NFL season, Hutson still holds the following records: Most seasons leading league in pass receptions (8), Most consecutive seasons leading league in pass receptions (5), Most seasons leading league in pass receiving yards gained (7), Most consecutive seasons leading league in pass receiving yards gained (4), Most seasons leading league in pass receiving touchdowns (9), Most consecutive seasons leading league in pass receiving touchdowns (5), Most seasons leading league in scoring (5), and Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring (5) (Source: NFL Record and fact book).
In an era when successful passing attacks were virtually unheard of, Don Hutson and the Green Bay Packers flourished via the air. Hutson held 18 major NFL records at the time of his retirement. Several of these records stood for decades.
Twice, in 1941 and 1942, he was named the league’s MVP. In 1941 Hutson became the first receiver to catch more than 50 passes in a season, and the next year he became the first with over 1,000 receiving yards in a season. In all, Hutson caught 488 passes for 7,991 yards. He rushed for three touchdowns and returned three interceptions for touchdowns for a career total of 105. Hutson led the NFL in receptions eight times in his 11 seasons, including five consecutive times (1941-1945). He led the NFL in receiving yards seven times, including four straight times from 1941-44. He led the NFL in scoring five times (1941-45). Hutson still holds the highest career average TDs per game (0.85) for a wide receiver.

Like everyone in the days before free substitution, Hutson was a 60-minute player who spent most of his career as a very fine safety on defense. In his final six seasons, he swiped 30 opposing quarterbacks’ passes. Often after scoring a touchdown, he would kick the extra point. In one quarter of a 1945 game, he caught four touchdown passes and kicked five PATs for an amazing 29 points.

[War Wagon]

I'm biased of course, but any Top 10 list of WR's that doesn't include Otis Taylor is laughable, at best.

[RumpleForeskin]

Andre Johnson will be on the list 10 years from now.

[BSmack]

Hutson was a two time league MVP,

Yea, playing against scrubs in 1941 and 1942.

and despite playing almost 100 yrs ago, a handful of his significant records STILL stand.

Again, most of those records were compiled totally or in part because Hutson was competing against competition that was so watered down by WWII that the league was forced to contract and combine teams just to field full lineups of able bodied men.

He ushered in the passing game.

Bullshit. Hutson was an aberration, not a trend setter.

He also played safety (well) and was the Puker kicker.

Candy fucking Moss doesn't rate.

I'll accept that Hutson belongs on a list of great 2 way players. But to say he's a better receiver than guys who play without leather helmets is fucking insane. Randy Moss at 6'4" 215 lined up against DBs 30 lbs lighter than him and 2-4 inches shorter? Give me a fucking break. He'd destroy them. Same goes for any of your top modern day receivers.

[OCmike]

No Houston Texan will every make ANY list. Book it. :D

RACK the Niners for having two of the top 10. Sure, Owens isn't a Niner and left after going...well...Owens, but he had his best years in SF.

Michael Irvin being that high on the list is disgusting. He's definitely in the top 20, but the guy couldn't get separation without committing flagrant offensive PI. The guy, like the Pistons "Bad Boys", who dared the refs to call a foul on every play, dared NFL officials to throw an offensive PI flag every time he caught a ball, knowing they wouldn't. Sorry, but that doesn't equate to "legendary talent" in my book.

Compare that "talent" to guys like Largent and Rice who weren't blessed with great speed, but got open by going all out on every plan and by running great routes.

[Goober McTuber]

Hutson was a two time league MVP,

Yea, playing against scrubs in 1941 and 1942.

and despite playing almost 100 yrs ago, a handful of his significant records STILL stand.

Again, most of those records were compiled totally or in part because Hutson was competing against competition that was so watered down by WWII that the league was forced to contract and combine teams just to field full lineups of able bodied men.

He ushered in the passing game.

Bullshit. Hutson was an aberration, not a trend setter.

He also played safety (well) and was the Puker kicker.

Candy fucking Moss doesn't rate.

I'll accept that Hutson belongs on a list of great 2 way players. But to say he's a better receiver than guys who play without leather helmets is fucking insane. Randy Moss at 6'4" 215 lined up against DBs 30 lbs lighter than him and 2-4 inches shorter? Give me a fucking break. He'd destroy them. Same goes for any of your top modern day receivers.

Players are continually getting bigger and faster. You can only judge a player’s greatness against their peers. At the time of his retirement, he was the preeminent wide receiver in NFL history. Incidentally, in 1941 the league was pretty much at full strength. It was before the 1942 season that a number of players left for the war.

Interestingly, Hutson was selected to the NFL 1930s All-Decade Team, but not the 1940s. And he was definitely more deserving of a spot in the Hall of Fame than Lynn Swann.

[poptart]

Hutson made All-Pro 11 straight seasons, beginning in 1935.

I guess nobody worth a shit was playing between '35 and '41.

The guy is on the VERY short list of most dominant players ever.


Get off the crack pipe, B.

[Goober McTuber]

Exactly. And Brian, I’m still waiting for you to back up the “draft dodger” comment.

[RumpleForeskin]

No Houston Texan will every make ANY list. Book it. :D

Oh yeah? See David Carr and sack totals in one season....BITCH.

[BSmack]

Players are continually getting bigger and faster. You can only judge a player’s greatness against their peers. At the time of his retirement, he was the preeminent wide receiver in NFL history.

Big deal. It doesn't make him better than modern day receivers. Saying Hutson was the best pre-1945 WR in football is like saying Frank Baker was the best power hitter of the Dead Ball Era.

Incidentally, in 1941 the league was pretty much at full strength. It was before the 1942 season that a number of players left for the war.

The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 re-instituted the draft. All able bodied men from the ages of 18-30 (later to be extended to 18-45 after Pearl Harbor) were subject to being drafted as of October 1940. That means the majority of NFL players were subject to the draft starting in 1940.

And a whole lot of those players did go. Some of them never made it back.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Ar ... p?Page=824" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interestingly, Hutson was selected to the NFL 1930s All-Decade Team, but not the 1940s. And he was definitely more deserving of a spot in the Hall of Fame than Lynn Swann.

I'd hardly say "more deserving". They both belong in the HoF. But neither would hold a candle to the top players of this day.

[BSmack]

Hutson made All-Pro 11 straight seasons, beginning in 1935.

I guess nobody worth a shit was playing between '35 and '41.

Considering the number of college All-Americans of the time who didn't even bother to play in the NFL, or who cut their careers short to pursue other, more lucrative occupations?

Yea, you could very easily make that argument.

[OCmike]

No Houston Texan will every make ANY list. Book it. :D

Oh yeah? See David Carr and sack totals in one season....BITCH.

Good to see you've got a sense of humor about it.

As a Niner fan, the past 13 years have made me do the same. This just in...salary cap hell blows.

[OCmike]

Uh...this is a message board. All of us dolts come here specifically to argue.

No real controversy for me, as my team's guy was #1. :D And for the record, I think they just put Michael Irvin on the list because they knew it would piss a lot of people off.

[Goober McTuber]

Incidentally, in 1941 the league was pretty much at full strength. It was before the 1942 season that a number of players left for the war.

The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 re-instituted the draft. All able bodied men from the ages of 18-30 (later to be extended to 18-45 after Pearl Harbor) were subject to being drafted as of October 1940. That means the majority of NFL players were subject to the draft starting in 1940.

And a whole lot of those players did go. Some of them never made it back.

Everything I’ve read about the 1941 season mentions nothing about numerous players headed to war. Everything I’ve read about the 1942 season immediately mentions that a number of players were now in the military. Players may have been eligible for the draft in 1940, but Pearl Harbor was attacked in December 1941. I don’t believe the war had a significant impact on the 1941 NFL season.

What I’ve read about 1943 says that even more players were gone, and I believe this was the only year of contraction (Cleveland sat out for a year, Pittsburgh and Philly merged for a year. In 1944 Cleveland and Philly resumed operation, Pittsburgh merged with the Chicago Cardinals for a season, and the NFL actually added an expansion team.

The war was winding down by the summer of 1945, so I’m guessing that a lot of the players that made it back, made it back for that season. So the NFL was probably watered down a bit from 1942-44, not 1941-45. And I’m still waiting for the explanation of how Hutson was a “draft dodger”, you disingenuous little prick.

[Tom In VA]

Able bodied for football doesn't necessarily equate to able bodied for military service.

Hutson very well could have gone to enlist himself or responded to a draft notice and been deemed "unfit for military service" for a variety of reasons.

I find it hard to believe he actually "dodged" the draft because they actually enforced compliance during WWII and in such a high profile position as a pro football player, he wouldn't be hard to find and arrest.

[RevLimiter]

Michael Irvin being that high on the list is disgusting. He's definitely in the top 20, but the guy couldn't get separation without committing flagrant offensive PI. The guy, like the Pistons "Bad Boys", who dared the refs to call a foul on every play, dared NFL officials to throw an offensive PI flag every time he caught a ball, knowing they wouldn't. Sorry, but that doesn't equate to "legendary talent" in my book.

RACK the best description of Michael Irvin I've ever seen.

I WILL say this about Mike though....he was one of the best blocking WRs I've ever seen. He would flat out ERASE his man on most running plays. In a Thanksgiving Day game in 1995 against the Chiefs, Mike had Dale Carter so frustrated that he got at least one unsportsmanlike flag for trying to take Mike out at the knees.

[BSmack]

Everything I’ve read about the 1941 season mentions nothing about numerous players headed to war. Everything I’ve read about the 1942 season immediately mentions that a number of players were now in the military. Players may have been eligible for the draft in 1940, but Pearl Harbor was attacked in December 1941. I don’t believe the war had a significant impact on the 1941 NFL season.

923,842 men were inducted in 1941. Yea, that pales in comparison to the 3 million+ a year that were drafted in 42 and 43 respectively. But don't even begin to tell me that with a player pool already limited by the NFL's inability to recruit and retain top college players that the draft had no impact. Hutson's stats are a fraud.

[BSmack]

BTW: It should be noted that Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Chris Carter, Michael Irvin, Charley Taylor, Marvin Harrison, Paul Warfield and Terrel Owens would not have been allowed on the field in an NFL game during Hutson's career. However, Steve Largent would have been welcome.

[Goober McTuber]

Hutson's stats are a fraud.

Yeah, and so are Sammy Baugh’s. Whether you like it or not, Don Hutson was the dominant receiver of his day and is widely considered to be one of the greatest wide receivers in NFL history.

BTW, was Sammy Baugh a draft dodger?

[BSmack]

Hutson's stats are a fraud.

Yeah, and so are Sammy Baugh’s. Whether you like it or not, Don Hutson was the dominant receiver of his day and is widely considered to be one of the greatest wide receivers in NFL history.

He was the best wide receiver in the NFL at the time he played. Of course at the time he played he didn't play against African American players and most of the top collegiate talent gave up the game for more profitable ventures. Oh, and his best statistical seasons were against competition that was even more watered down thanks to the draft.

Anything about those facts that you're failing to understand?.

[RumpleForeskin]

Hutson was 7 feet tall and killed hundreds of men.

[BSmack]

Randy Moss at 6'4" 215 lined up against DBs 30 lbs lighter than him and 2-4 inches shorter? Give me a fucking break. He'd destroy them. Same goes for any of your top modern day receivers.

A horseshit comparison. You give those old timers the same training regimen that modern players go through and they would stomp the raw fuck out of any candy assed bitch from the modern era.

How about you give the old timers the fat contracts to go along with the training?

There's a reason very few top college players from the 30s wasted their time with the NFL. They didn't pay shit. The guys who did bother with the NFL did so because they either loved the game too much to quit, or because they had no other prospects.

Hutson played DB also and was 6-1 which is more than adequate height for a modern DB.

So? Nobody was questioning whether or not Hutson could have made a modern NFL lineup. The question was whether or not he would have even remotely come close to putting up the kind of jaw dropping stats he put up in the 30s and 40s against vastly inferior competition.

[Goober McTuber]

Hutson's stats are a fraud.

Yeah, and so are Sammy Baugh’s. Whether you like it or not, Don Hutson was the dominant receiver of his day and is widely considered to be one of the greatest wide receivers in NFL history.

He was the best wide receiver in the NFL at the time he played. Of course at the time he played he didn't play against African American players and most of the top collegiate talent gave up the game for more profitable ventures.

Good point. Babe Ruth was a fairly middling baseball player then, right?

[bbqjones]

Hutson was 7 feet tall and killed hundreds of men.

thats funny

[OCmike]

Uh...this is a message board. All of us dolts come here specifically to argue.

No problem with that. I just it laughable when people debate any list started by ESPN and their ilk with any type of legitamate merit, especially when their goal is not to weigh in on a debate but to get you talking about their list on their website.

C'mon, it's the offseason. We have to have something to talk about to pass time during the day! I mean you can only beat off so many times before your junk really starts to hur- *looks around* ...what...what'd I say?!

[BSmack]

He was the best wide receiver in the NFL at the time he played. Of course at the time he played he didn't play against African American players and most of the top collegiate talent gave up the game for more profitable ventures.

Good point. Babe Ruth was a fairly middling baseball player then, right?

Yea, comparing MLB in the early 20th Century against the NFL of the same period out to go REAL well.

[Tom In VA]

He was the best wide receiver in the NFL at the time he played. Of course at the time he played he didn't play against African American players and most of the top collegiate talent gave up the game for more profitable ventures.

Good point. Babe Ruth was a fairly middling baseball player then, right?

Yea, comparing MLB in the early 20th Century against the NFL of the same period out to go REAL well.

I don't know, the Babe probably could have played some football. He would have fit in pretty good too based on Art Donovan's description of old school football.

[poptart]

I still can't get over a panel of pro football 'experts' coming together and determining that M. Irvin is the 4th greatest WR ever.
I don't know how something this egregious could occur but I'll just assume that multiple blowjobs must have been involved.

Lance Alworth belongs on a Top 10 WR list, and he most definitely belongs ahead of Crackhead Irvin.
Also, if Raymond Berry and Fred Belitnikoff aren't in the top 10 then they must be #s 11 and 12.

Timmy Brown?
No love?

Oh well.

[BSmack]

I still can't get over a panel of pro football 'experts' coming together and determining that M. Irvin is the 4th greatest WR ever.
I don't know how something this egregious could occur but I'll just assume that multiple blowjobs must have been involved.

Lance Alworth belongs on a Top 10 WR list, and he most definitely belongs ahead of Crackhead Irvin.
Also, if Raymond Berry and Fred Belitnikoff aren't in the top 10 then they must be #s 11 and 12.

Timmy Brown?
No love?

Oh well.

Berry was on the panel that voted. He chose not to vote for himself. Had he voted for himself, he likely would have bumped Harrison off the list.

[Headhunter]

I still can't get over a panel of pro football 'experts' coming together and determining that M. Irvin is the 4th greatest WR ever.
I don't know how something this egregious could occur but I'll just assume that multiple blowjobs must have been involved.

No Shit. Hutson and Moss couldn't hold his jock, and Rice is debatable, but I just assumed Holmgren, as a panel member, was responsible for a few of those aforementioned blow jobs, so Rice got the nod.

Good looking out though, Pops.

[OCmike]

Rice is debatable

Careful...your down's syndrome is showing.

Some of the below info is mine from memory (which we all know is infallible) and some is Ctrl-Pauled from Wikipedia(which we all know is completely factual):

Just a "few" highlights...
1985 NFC Offensive Rookie of the Year
Led the NFL in touchdowns and receptions six times
1987 named the NFL's Player of the Year
Scored 22 touchdowns in 12 games in the strike-shortened 1987 season (a record until Moss broke it with a gigantic * this past year)
Once caught 5 TD passes in a single game (although, granted it was against the falcons)
All-time career TD leader
Had a streak of 189 games played before Hardy Nickerson's bush-league facemask on an end around when Rice had beaten him like a married Saudi woman at a Starbucks with a man who is not her husband, tearing Rice's ACL and MCL.
Played in 13 ProBowls
Rice has 1,549 receptions, which is 448 receptions ahead of the Schmoe (Cris Carter) in second place
His 22,895 receiving yards are 7,961 yards ahead of second place jock-holder Tim Brown.
Rice's 197 touchdown receptions are 67 more than #2 Cris Carter's 130, and Rice's 208 total touchdowns were 33 ahead of Emmitt Smith's 175.
Receiving yards gained in a single season (1,848)
Seasons with at least 50 receptions (17)
Seasons with at least 100 receptions (4)
Seasons with at least 1,000 receiving yards (14)
Games with at least 100 receiving yards (76)
Consecutive games with at least one reception (274)
Consecutive games with at least one touchdown reception (13)
Most games played by a wide receiver (303)
Touchdown receptions from different passers (14)

Superbowl records
Only player to ever catch a TD in 4 Superbowls
Receptions (39)
Yards receiving (589)
All-purpose yards (604)
Touchdown receptions (8)
Points scored (48)
Receptions in a single game (11)
Yards receiving in a single game (215)
Touchdown receptions in a single game (3, twice)
Points scored in a single game (18, twice)

I can keep going if you want. Shockingly, that's not even all of it. I'm just tired of listing it all off.

The reason Rice is the best WR in history in my book is that he wasn't the fastest or most talented guy on the field. He just worked his ass off in practice so that he ran perfect routes (notice the seamless transition between the fourteen QBs that he caught touchdowns from, and was one of the first guys to work out all during the offseason, so he was always in peak condition at the start of the year. He basically just out-worked a shitload of guys with more talent and speed than he had.

Additionally, he revolutionized the position with his body-sacrificing downfield blocking on running plays or when other receivers had the ball. Sure, some guys would do it here and there, but Rice was one of the first superstars who made blocking something that he really took pride in and he passed that trait onto guys like T.O.

Yeah, he had Montana and Steve Young throwing to him, but he also had Jeff Kemp, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, Jim Druckenmiller, and another seven schmucks throwing him TDs.

[Goober McTuber]

He was the best wide receiver in the NFL at the time he played. Of course at the time he played he didn't play against African American players and most of the top collegiate talent gave up the game for more profitable ventures.

Good point. Babe Ruth was a fairly middling baseball player then, right?

Yea, comparing MLB in the early 20th Century against the NFL of the same period out to go REAL well.

Well, your point was that not having to play against black players somehow negated his accomplishments, right?

Still waiting to hear your justification about the draft dodging.

[Headhunter]

Wow, a lot of sarcasm meters need to head to the shop, or some of you just have an insatiable appetite for bait.

[OCmike]

Oh yeah? Well I just felt like posting a bunch of his stats and records because I...well...crap, oot.