Best hardcore/counter-culture album of ALL time:

[Th]

Discuss

[Screw_Michigan]

Nope.

[Goober McTuber]

[BSmack]

You're all wrong.

[Goober McTuber]

Hawkwind's Space Ritual (financed by a fluke hit single "Silver Machine") tour roared through Britain and the US (circa 1973) in all its psychedelic glory. It's an experience captured on disc to deliriously grand effect! With a sound finding itself in a netherworld between early Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath, Hawkwind blew minds everywhere it went with a lavish extravaganza of lights, chattering electronics, sci-fi poetry, Stacia's exotic dancing, sci-fi and fantasy tales with charmingly goofy lyrics (see "Orgone Accumulator" for example, with such lines as "It's no social integrator, it's a one-man isolator" and "Turns eyeballs into craters") relentlessly rocking and crunchy riffing, disembodied woodwinds bleating and blatting happily away and certifiable sci-fi nutcase Robert Calvert lending his poetic talents to the proceedings.

The Highlights: A gloriously over-the-top "7 X 7" segueing into "Sonic Attack/Time We Left This World Today" where Calvert really pours on the campy sci-fi charm, then the band roars into a relentlessly hypnotic and heavy groove, with good 'ol Lemmy doing a bone-rattling bass solo just before the tune winds down. All throughout, the Lemster lays down ferociously melodic and cutting lead-bass as it were. He also gets off a few good ideas on the incurably goofy "Orgone Accumulator" (part of what made Hawkwind so fun). "Master of the Universe" gets the thrashing of its life here, easily putting the studio version to complete shame. This was darn near punk before it was callled such. For sheer rocking out, "Brainstorm" is a manic delight (with a rare searing Brock guitar solo) as is "Lord of Light" with Lemmy giving it all he's got while Nik Turner happily bleats and blats away on his sax!

The Black Holes: Only a couple, "Electronic #1" is a mercifully short noise freakout, and the plodding (until the end) "Space is Deep".

And for real rabid Hawk fans, there are now 3 bonus tracks which include different versions of "Master of the Universe" and "Born To Go", and a previously unheard live version of "You Shouldn't Do That".

Although a recording can never get the full extent of the experience, this is a trip worth taking with our space-farers! Hop aboard for some seriously crunchy, trippy, goofy spacey psychedelic fun!!

Not sure how this qualifies as “counter-culture”?

[BSmack]

Not sure how this qualifies as “counter-culture”?

Any questions?

[Felix]

pretty easy

[Goober McTuber]

Not sure how this qualifies as “counter-culture”?

Any questions?

That appears to be drug-fueled psychedelia. The counterculture movement of the 60s and early 70s was about social change. There was certainly plenty of drug use but that album hardly qualifies as “hardcore counterculture”. Based on that sampling, it doesn’t qualify as decent music either.

[BSmack]

That appears to be drug-fueled psychedelia. The counterculture movement of the 60s and early 70s was about social change. There was certainly plenty of drug use but that album hardly qualifies as “hardcore counterculture”. Based on that sampling, it doesn’t qualify as decent music either.

There was no better music to "tune in, turn on and drop out" to than Hawkwind.

[Goober McTuber]

Unfortunately, that whole “drop out” thing was totally misinterpreted by many to just get high and do very little. Kind of counter to the whole counterculture ideal. Hawkwind’s music would seem to embody the get high and do very little model.

I listened to your three samples. Really mediocre when compared to Hendrix, Pink Floyd, the Dead, the Doors, latter day Beatles, etc., if you were going to get totally ripped on blotter and listen to music for 8 or 10 hours.

[atomicdad]

It 's hard to have a consensus on "the best", but this is in my top 5

[BSmack]

Unfortunately, that whole “drop out” thing was totally misinterpreted by many to just get high and do very little. Kind of counter to the whole counterculture ideal. Hawkwind’s music would seem to embody the get high and do very little model.

First of all, the ideal that there is a "counterculture ideal" is about as anti-counterculture as I can imagine. Who are you to start defining the "ideal", you patriarchal stooge of the fascist hegemony?

And secondly, there are people who would have done the world a great deal of good had they just got high and did nothing. For example, George W. Bush would have done everybody a whole lot of good had not sobered up. And would we all not be a little better off had Hitler decided to rip a few bongs instead of trying to take over the world? Don't knock doing nothing, it's the overly ambitious who fuck everything up.

I listened to your three samples. Really mediocre when compared to Hendrix, Pink Floyd, the Dead, the Doors, latter day Beatles, etc., if you were going to get totally ripped on blotter and listen to music for 8 or 10 hours.

Yea, the audio for the You Tube videos isn't exactly top notch. Crank up a bit torrent search if you want the real deal. As for the quality of the music itself, I guess we'll just have to continue to disagree. I know that when I was in full dose mode, bands like Hawkwind, Zappa and Kraftwerk were just as much a part of the music rotation as The Beatles, Hendrix, Airplane, Dead or The Doors for my friends and I.

[PSUFAN]

It 's hard to have a consensus on "the best", but this is in my top 5

Certainly a great album, but it's hard to recognize X as "counter-culture". They were probably the least political "punk" bands you could possibly name.

[Goober McTuber]

Unfortunately, that whole “drop out” thing was totally misinterpreted by many to just get high and do very little. Kind of counter to the whole counterculture ideal. Hawkwind’s music would seem to embody the get high and do very little model.

First of all, the ideal that there is a "counterculture ideal" is about as anti-counterculture as I can imagine. Who are you to start defining the "ideal", you patriarchal stooge of the fascist hegemony?

Not my definition, sonny boy.

The counterculture of the 1960s began in the United States as a reaction against the social norms of the 1950s, segregation in the Deep South, and the Vietnam War[5][6] In the United Kingdom the counterculture was mainly a reaction against the post-war social norms of the 1940s and 1950s, although "Ban the Bomb" protests centered around opposition to nuclear weaponry.

White middle class youth, for the first time since the Great Depression of the 1930s, had sufficient leisure time to raise concerns about social issues - especially civil rights, the Vietnam War and women's rights. The far-reaching changes that began during the late 1960s and early 1970s affected many aspects of society, creating a social revolution in many industrialized countries. The effects of the 1960s and 1970s counterculture also significantly affected voters and institutions, especially in the U.S. Every Western capital experienced significant protests.

As the 1960s progressed, widespread tensions developed in American society that tended to flow along generational lines regarding the war in Vietnam, race relations, sexual mores, women's rights, traditional modes of authority, experimentation with psychedelic drugs and a predominantly materialist interpretation of the American Dream.

"Turn on, tune in, drop out" is a counterculture phrase coined by Timothy Leary in the 1960s. The phrase came to him in the shower one day after Marshall McLuhan suggested to Leary that he come up with "something snappy" to promote the benefits of LSD. It is an excerpt from a prepared speech he delivered at the opening of a press conference in New York City on September 19, 1966. This phrase urged people to initiate cultural changes through the use of psychedelics and by detaching themselves from the existing conventions and hierarchies in society. The phrase was derided by more conservative critics.

The phrase is derived from this part of Leary's speech: "Like every great religion of the past we seek to find the divinity within and to express this revelation in a life of glorification and the worship of God. These ancient goals we define in the metaphor of the present — turn on, tune in, drop out."

Leary later explained in his 1983 autobiography Flashbacks:

"'Turn on' meant go within to activate your neural and genetic equipment. Become sensitive to the many and various levels of consciousness and the specific triggers that engage them. Drugs were one way to accomplish this end. 'Tune in' meant interact harmoniously with the world around you - externalize, materialize, express your new internal perspectives. Drop out suggested an elective, selective, graceful process of detachment from involuntary or unconscious commitments. 'Drop Out' meant self-reliance, a discovery of one's singularity, a commitment to mobility, choice, and change. Unhappily my explanations of this sequence of personal development were often misinterpreted to mean 'Get stoned and abandon all constructive activity.'"

Yes, there are obviously certain people who would be more beneficial to society were they perpetually incapacitated by strong drugs (think StuckNut). That was not the central theme of the 1960s counterculture.

[A-Bomb]

Paul Wall - Get Money, Stay True


he's about hating the establishment and shit.

Now GET BENT dipwads

[Dinsdale]

Counterculture --







Hardcore --

[BSmack]

First of all, the ideal that there is a "counterculture ideal" is about as anti-counterculture as I can imagine. Who are you to start defining the "ideal", you patriarchal stooge of the fascist hegemony?

Not my definition, sonny boy.

So what? The whole point is that the counterculture was not some kind of monolithic, Borg-like entity. You cite Leary's definition of "Turn on, tune in, drop out". Well I can assure you that Neal Cassady and Ken Kesey had an entirely different outlook when it came to the "proper" uses and value of psychedelics. And Hunter Thompson and Jerry Garcia had their own ideas. And what about Iggy Pop and Lou Reed?

And now for something completely different to think about...

Making, releasing and touring in support of an album is about as far from "doing nothing" as you can get. In fact, it's about as hyper-ambitious as you can get. Yet you think the music of Hawkwind embodies a "do nothing" approach to life? Somehow the word "ponderous" seems like such an understatement.

[Goober McTuber]

First of all, the ideal that there is a "counterculture ideal" is about as anti-counterculture as I can imagine. Who are you to start defining the "ideal", you patriarchal stooge of the fascist hegemony?

Not my definition, sonny boy.

So what? The whole point is that the counterculture was not some kind of monolithic, Borg-like entity.

Not at all, but it was centered on a number of social issues. Some felt more strongly about certain issues than others. For many the predominate issue was the war. For some it was women’s rights. For others it was racial equality. For me, it was about experimenting with drugs, relaxing sexual mores, the war, relaxing sexual mores, experimenting with drugs, race relations, experimenting with drugs and relaxing sexual mores.

So no, the movement was hardly monolithic. But if you were there, you definitely felt like part of a greater whole. Or sometimes a really great hole.

You cite Leary's definition of "Turn on, tune in, drop out".

Yeah, well you were the one that quoted him, so it just seemed kind of logical.

And now for something completely different to think about...

Making, releasing and touring in support of an album is about as far from "doing nothing" as you can get. In fact, it's about as hyper-ambitious as you can get. Yet you think the music of Hawkwind embodies a "do nothing" approach to life?

No, but dropping acid and listening to it probably qualifies. Look, I have no doubt that any number of my counterculture peers may have enjoyed getting wasted and listening to Hawkwind. (Thankfully none of them were my roommates.) I certainly enjoyed getting wasted and listening to music. You know, after a hard day of protesting and getting tear-gassed and whatnot. But when I think of hardcore counterculture music, the first thing that comes to mind would be the music calling for change. Not a bunch of space rock.

[atomicdad]

They were probably the least political "punk" bands you could possibly name.

That's a good point Skidmark. At least when I brought that album home sometime in 81 or 82 my stepmom hated it, so I had that working for me.

[PSUFAN]

I'll also hand it to Spray for the best entry in this thread. It's hard to imagine "hardcore" without Sabbath, and they were definitely at odds with the culture that surrounded them - and inspirational to those similarly situated.

Also - even though London Calling now serves as background for a car company commercial, I think that the somewhat prophetic lyrics to Guns of Brixton pretty much attest to their genuine counter-cultural cred:

When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

When the law break in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting in death row

You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, Guns of Brixton

The money feels good
And your life you like it well
But surely your time will come
As in heaven, as in hell

You see, he feels like Ivan
BORN under the Brixton sun
His game is called survivin'
At the end of the harder they come

You know it means no mercy
They caught him with a gun
No need for the Black Maria
Goodbye to the Brixton sun

You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh-the guns of Brixton

When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

You can crush us
You can bruise us
And even shoot us
But oh- the guns of Brixton

Shot down on the pavement
Waiting in death row
His game was survivin'
As in heaven as in hell

You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, the guns of Brixton

Imagine Corn or Slipknot clearly advocating an armed response to law enforcement in this day and age. We're not at all close to that situation now.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

You people suck. Seriously.

[Tom In VA]

Bad Brains and Minor Threat, when I think '"hardcore", I think of them. Could be because they were local.

"Counter Culture" is nothing more than a marketting ploy. It's "Pepsi" to the establishments "Coke" and when "Pepsi" becomes the establishment, it's "Coke".
Marty's offering is the perfect example. Musicians making it rich extolling the virtues of socialism and evils of capitalism is probably the best modern day scam, second only to University professors doing it. Backstage they're probably all like "Bwahahahahahah and they're paying US for this shit". On that note, I'd have to give Pete Seeger the nod.

Oh, but my favorite one is ....


IN fact ....



It's hardcore and it's counter-culture because it wasn't "Coke" or "Pepsi" it was just musicians making music. Music that wasn't a part of any real genre at the time.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Bad Brains and Minor Threat, when I think '"hardcore", I think of them. Could be because they were local.

Look, I could recommend "We're the Meatmen...and you suck!" by The Meatmen or The Wacky Hi-Jinx of Adrenalin O.D. by Adrenalin O.D. (both of which I have the original vinyl of)

I just thought I'd mention an artist others may have heard before.

[Tom In VA]

You're just so tragically hip you can't help yourself.

[ChargerMike]

...hey, I don't know, but i like the band...width.

[Wolfman]

I present:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Residents" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Counter-culture" be damned !!

[campinfool]

Not a full length album, but never the less...

[Screw_Michigan]

You people suck. Seriously.

FREEDOM...YEAH, RIGHT

[Screw_Michigan]

how about this one?



or

[BSmack]

Look, I could recommend "We're the Meatmen...and you suck!" by The Meatmen or The Wacky Hi-Jinx of Adrenalin O.D. by Adrenalin O.D. (both of which I have the original vinyl of)

I just thought I'd mention an artist others may have heard before.

Well, if you want to invoke artists nobody has ever heard of, let me be the first to nominate "Flat Animal" by John Bartles. Bartles is living proof that God does not exist, as he would have 20 platinum albums were there a loving and merciful God.



Here's a little taste. Don't take it personally and I wouldn't crank it up too loud at work.

Callin All Humans

[campinfool]

[atomicdad]

Baahhaahahaha

They need to rewrite "One Down Three To Go"

[PSUFAN]

Never heard of the Meatmen? War of the Superbikes, baby.

This hardcore counter-cultural album should be added:

[atomicdad]

Never heard of the Meatmen?

In the overall scheme of life, that is probably not such a bad thing.

[PSUFAN]

That's no way to go through life, son

[Th]

Before there was punk - there was its roots:

[campinfool]

Before those deug induced fags, there was the real prelude to punk...

[RadioFan]

Sin,

Toddowen's gf.

[PSUFAN]

[Bizzarofelice]

rack the Sonics reference. i been shut down.