Directed towards Myles Brand

[TheJON]

I can't say for sure that Myles Brand doesn't post or read this board, but in the unlikely event that he does this is directed towards him.....

Myles, I know you've tried real hard to make us all forget about what went on at USC but I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten. I understand that USC is one of your big cash cows and when one of the elite programs gets caught with their pants around their ankles you pretend like you're investigating and then never publicly say anything about it in hopes every would just forget. Well, I haven't.

I just want to know how much Petey is paying you to slide this thing under the rug? $50,000? $100,000? $1 million??? I will, however, give you some credit on making everyone (except me) forget. That takes some real skill. Perhaps John Edwards could hire you as his PR guy.

Anyways, thought I'd throw this out there in hopes you read this board even though I'm about 99.999999999% sure you don't.

[Adelpiero]

quit spamming the forum jerkoff

[TheJON]

Having a college football take (and a brilliant one at that) on a college football message board is now considered spamming???

[Mr T]

Paging Myles Brand troll

[TheJON]

We have a Myles Brand Troll around these parts? Gotta be Shine

[Killian]

Honestly, you're coming across as a whiney cunt. You cry about all these teams and how they cheat, yet there is no substantive proof that these programs are doing anything wrong. My suggestion to you is you either come to grips with the fact that USC is the BSD of college football right now and nothing will come of anything, or find a team to root for that cheats as well as USC and has a similar bank roll. The NCAA is as useful as tits on a bull and will never call down the thunder on a big time program.

[SunCoastSooner]

The NCAA is as useful as tits on a bull and will never call down the thunder on a big time program.

Spoken like a True Notre Dame fan

Sin,

Alabama, Auburn, Oklahoma & SMU


In other words Killian is telling you to become a domer with his take.

[TheJON]

Honestly, you're coming across as a whiney cunt.

Why? Because I care about integrity???

yet there is no substantive proof that these programs are doing anything wrong.

Aww, horsepuckey. You know that's not true. Come on now, Killian, you're better than that.

[Left Seater]

Got to agree with Jon on this one. We know for a fact that U$C athletes and their families were breaking NCAA rules.

Killian, both Mayo and Bush have admitted to violating NCAA rules. Granted they didn't come out and say they broke rules, but what they have said happened is clearly a violation.

[War Wagon]

First we get this.

You cry about all these teams and how they cheat, yet there is no substantive proof that these programs are doing anything wrong.

and then...

...find a team to root for that cheats as well as USC...

I guess in Killians book, "cheating" and "doing wrong" are mutually exclusive terminology.

[Killian]

Sorry Wags, the shift key on my blackberry wasn't working so I couldn't put the first cheat or the second in quotes. It goes back the the old saying, "remove the plank from your eye before you tell me I have a splinter in mine".

As far as USC goes, Mayo and Bush are alleged to have taken money from agents with no ties to the program. Mayo is an apples and orange case anyway, because that is the basketball program. Again, with agents, they are all over kids from the time they even look like potential NFL players. If you want to argue that Pom Pom shouldn't have give the agents the same access to practices as the coaches have, that is a different argument. The fact remains that there is no substantive proof that USC or other programs are doing anything wrong. This happens to whatever team happens to be the top program for a 5-7 year stretch. Happened to Miami in the early 80's, Notre Dame in the late 80's-early 90's, FSU in the mid to late 90's and so on.

As far as the NCAA bringing down the hammer, they did it once to SMU and it scared the shit out of them. OU, Bama and some other programs have gotten hit with some sanctions, but the worse you will see is some lost scholarships and post season ban. You will never see the death penalty again in major college athletics, and you will rarely see harsh sanctions applied to any of the big boys.

[TheJON]

The fact remains that there is no substantive proof that USC or other programs are doing anything wrong.

Defense attorney much???

[This happens to whatever team happens to be the top program for a 5-7 year stretch./quote]

Not true at all. Just happens to the programs that are obviously cheating (like USC is). A lot of top programs don't cheat. In fact, I'd say there's as many elite programs that are doing things the right way as there are cheaters. Florida, Texas, Michigan, Penn State (back when they were a top program), all programs I believe do things the right way and I have no reason to believe they're crooked. I'd even through Oklahoma on that list. I know the Rhett Bomar situation and a couple other minor things, but overall Stoops is clean.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out what's been going on in SoCal. Yes, I know.....SoCal is an attractive place to play and USC has a great tradition. But there's a little more to recruiting than JUST that. Pete's a fantastic college football coach.....croked or otherwise. But if you think he's doing things the right way you're very naive. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together. Hell, Lou Henson and Jerry Tarkanian ain't got nuttin' on this guy!

[Killian]

Really JON? ND was questioned for a long time about how things were done under Holtz when they were at the top. I've heard things about OU under Stoops and I was in HS when two of our studs signed with UofM.

It's not defense attorney spin. You think they cheat, many think they cheat. Show me one link or one piece of info that shows USC knew what was happening with Bush. That's all I ask. Until you can provide that, it's all speculation.

[SunCoastSooner]

I'd even through Oklahoma on that list. I know the Rhett Bomar situation and a couple other minor things, but overall Stoops is clean.

Bomar and Quinn were a problem with a rogue semi booster (not even OU grad but I believe Tulsa). As soon as that story broke Bob Stoops tossed Bomar off the team; this was after the #2 kid on the depth chart from the previous season had transferred to Utah. Had to move a WR back to QB... didn't turn out so bad for us either. Paul had more heart than Bomar; hell he had more heart than most players.

[Killian]

Allow me to suggest that the scholarships taken away from Alabama turned the Tide into, at best, a mediocre program for quite a few years. As I type this, UA is just now able to peek over the mountain and should be back on top of it within two or three more years.

Definitely wasn't the death penalty (what's up, Alabama State Hornets?!), but the damage inflicted was severe.

Note: I'm not suggesting some punishment wasn't deserved. However, the severity of the sanctions has been questioned by the former chairman of the NCAA's Committee on Infractions: http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/200 ... -chairman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What hurt more, the lack of scholarships or shitty coaching?

[King Crimson]

I'd even through Oklahoma on that list. I know the Rhett Bomar situation and a couple other minor things, but overall Stoops is clean.

Bomar and Quinn were a problem with a rogue semi booster (not even OU grad but I believe Tulsa). As soon as that story broke Bob Stoops tossed Bomar off the team; this was after the #2 kid on the depth chart from the previous season had transferred to Utah. Had to move a WR back to QB... didn't turn out so bad for us either. Paul had more heart than Bomar; hell he had more heart than most players.

that 99 yard drive against NU in KC is a good memory. that was not a vintage OU team, but PT was a great Sooner.

[King Crimson]

Allow me to suggest that the scholarships taken away from Alabama turned the Tide into, at best, a mediocre program for quite a few years. As I type this, UA is just now able to peek over the mountain and should be back on top of it within two or three more years.

Definitely wasn't the death penalty (what's up, Alabama State Hornets?!), but the damage inflicted was severe.

Note: I'm not suggesting some punishment wasn't deserved. However, the severity of the sanctions has been questioned by the former chairman of the NCAA's Committee on Infractions: http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/200 ... -chairman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What hurt more, the lack of scholarships or shitty coaching?

a lot of times, you get those both together. Mike Dubose* won 10 games at Bama. So did Francione. and Mike Shula was a bad hire under the circumstances* (much like Blake at OU). and they had some bad luck with Croyle....and the kid that broke his arm.

*alumni and boosters want it "back to the way it was". so, you hire someone unqualified from the previous regime of "golden times" and what you get is someone underqualified.

[Left Seater]

Show me one link or one piece of info that shows USC knew what was happening with Bush.

Come on Killian, you know better. It doesn't matter if U$C knew or not. If Bush broke rules, which he has admitted, then U$C is in violation.

We know that both Mayo and Bush accepted improper benefits from agents. Bush took hotel stays and and airplane trips that were "called" loans, but even a loan is an improper benefit. His parents also took "loans" for trips to away games and awards banquets. Again these are improper benefits. Not to mention the housing situation.

Mayo also accepted transportation which is an improper benefit. This time from a person who was responsible for getting U$C in trouble years before. So clearly he was known to U$C. Granted straight cash payments are speculation, but there is no doubt about the other rule violations.

[Killian]

Lefty, my point is what do people want the NCAA to push forward on? The fact that a kid took benefits from an agent a few years ago? Fine, they can go ahead and do that.

Also, there is a difference between "in violation" as you say, and "cheat" as JON says. You are correct when you state that it appears that USC was in violation of NCAA rules with the Bush situation. JON's broad pait brush alligation of "cheat" is a whole seperate issue.

[SunCoastSooner]

Lefty, my point is what do people want the NCAA to push forward on? The fact that a kid took benefits from an agent a few years ago? Fine, they can go ahead and do that.

Also, there is a difference between "in violation" as you say, and "cheat" as JON says. You are correct when you state that it appears that USC was in violation of NCAA rules with the Bush situation. JON's broad pait brush alligation of "cheat" is a whole seperate issue.

Hold on so hit Oklahoma and Georgia Tech both in the last 4 years for almost the exact same situations occurring but give USC a pass. Fuck that shit.

It's become blantantly obvious that for the NCAA it's all about the cash cow and nothing else. Hit the politically less affluent fan based teams while protecting their cash cows with either huge national fan bases or in major media epicenters.

An Alabama player got a free car and got hit with multiple violations and lost numerous scholarships. Two Oklahoma players got paid for services not performed by a man who wasn't connected to OU by personal donations or through attending the University lost wins (later reversed) and scholarships. A player at Georgia Tech received money to attend a family members funeral (that was repaid) from a booster and got nailed losing scholarships. All of these cases were dispossessed within 12 months by the NCAA. We are now approaching 2 1/2 years on Bush and USC whose family and his own violations far outweigh (house > car) those previous mentioned and were committed on numerous occasions throughout his time at USC. It's a blatant double standard that is not going unnoticed by the college football landscape.

Oklahoma and Georgia Tech not only cooperated but turned themselves in and committed to internal investigations which they turned over to the NCAA as well and were hit with the NCAA hammer. USC has done everything within its own power to hinder the NCAA investigation even right up to hush money and out of court settlements and nothing has occurred.

[TheJON]

Show me one link or one piece of info that shows USC knew what was happening with Bush.

So that's what you think? You think Reggie broke rules but Petey had no idea about it? Come on.....if that's the case, then the coach is a moron. How on earth can Pete Carrol not know that the mother of his star player was living in a rent-free home yet Kirk Ferentz found out that one of his players was given a free cell phone by a local cell phone dealer (then subsequently suspended him)? You can't keep stuff like this from the coach. Word gets around. If Reggie tells one person, coach Carrol would know 5 minutes later. That's how things are. More likely what happened in this case (and probably in the case of many other situations similar to this at USC) was Carrol came to USC thinking he could outsmart everyone by having people not known to be associated with the school or people that aren't considered boosters. That's how you cheat.....if you're smart. Then if the player gets caught, they can't trace it to the coach because that person isn't known to be affiliated with the school or the coach. It's tough to nail a coach like that.

Also, let's not forget about other USC incidents under Pete's watch. The illegal recruitment of Joe McKnight where Reggie helped recruit him on a conference call. Carrol, McKnight, and Bush all played stupid and changed their stories because they all lied the first time.

Or the allegations of Dwayne Jarrett living rent free in an apartment paid by Matt Leinart's dad. That wasn't proven, though it was most likely true. If I recall correctly, the NCAA never even bothered to investigate that one.

So let me see if I got this straight.......there's MAJOR allegations all over the place (some even being proven true) and the coach knows nothing??? Right. Hey, you can choose to believe whatever you want, I'll just say that if you think Pete is clean you're wrong.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I'm just so sick of reading and hearing about all this crap. I care about the games, not all this never-ending off the field bullshit. Can we please stop obsessing about a guy who's 3 years removed from college?

Bring on the pigskin, please. Let's put the ball on the ground already...

17 days.

[War Wagon]

I'm just so sick of reading and hearing about all this crap. I care about the games, not all this never-ending off the field bullshit. Can we please stop obsessing about a guy who's 3 years removed from college?

Go ahead and stick your head in the sand and forget all about the seemy underside of CFB, but it's not going away.

If folks want to point out the dirty laundry, I reckon that's their perogative, just as it's yours to ignore said shit stained undies.

Feel free to focus on the touchy feel good subjects instead, but in the meantime, grab a fucking towell.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Go ahead and stick your head in the sand and forget all about the seemy underside of CFB, but it's not going away.

That's kinda my point. If you're a fan of CFB, you've already resigned yourself to the fact this stuff happens. It's an unfortunate, but unfailing reality. Since that's the case, why dwell on it so much? Let me clarify one thing by saying I don't have a big problem discussing these things as they arise, but come on...this particular issue has run its course...let's move on, already.

If folks want to point out the dirty laundry, I reckon that's their perogative, just as it's yours to ignore said shit stained undies.

Gimme a freakin' break, Wags. This? Coming from you? You're the king of screaming from the mountaintops over any little thing that bores or disinterests you. God forbid you take issue the moment someone else does the same.

[War Wagon]

If you're a fan of CFB, you've already resigned yourself to the fact this stuff happens. It's an unfortunate, but unfailing reality. Since that's the case, why dwell on it so much?

Because we're T-minus 17 days and counting and this is yet another way to whittle down those days, dawg.

Suncoast also put up a very impressive arguement, in case you didn't notice. The topic deserves more run, if for nothing else, because of that effort.

[King Crimson]

i honestly think OU failed in it's oversight of the Bomar, JD Quinn at Big Red Cars fiasco.

Bomar was an idiot and clocked in and went to class (documented at two different places at once) and i think OU should have caught up with that--monitoring employment. Quinn turns out to be kind of drunken Richie Incognito wanna be type who gets in trouble wherever he goes.

given the situation with Sampson at the time, and Boren being a super tight-ass where his rep is involved**....i don't see how they let that get past with Bomar. But, independently, i don't really think outside the 06 year Stoops was that sad to see Bomar go. he and his dad were trouble and by then you know you can hand it off the Peterson and win games and take your chances with that.

as long as Boren is around, i don't see OU being a real bigtime cheater. Stoops is quoted as saying about Jarboe "that we are in their private lives" as a complaint (which, independent of what is right and wrong about Jarboe, i agree with)....and the next day he's gone. That's Boren; or, someone with a big checkbook talking to Boren.

not saying it's right or wrong. just saying what happened.

**i know almost for a fact that Boren told Sampson that if he ever wanted to get out of his "pay-freeze", he better start looking for another job.

a couple good articles about Jarboe in the ATL paper:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sport ... _news.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared ... ad_no.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

however, i do disagree with the first article which that JJ is a "victim of the technology".

that's a very dumb way to frame the way of thinking about media and new media in thinking about contemporary society.

[SunCoastSooner]

i honestly think OU failed in it's oversight of the Bomar, JD Quinn at Big Red Cars fiasco.

And the athletic department said as much when it turned itself in to the NCAA. It has made moves to correct the situation in the future. Has USC?

[TheJON]

It has made moves to correct the situation in the future. Has USC?

Does paying the NCAA to hide it under the rug count as correcting the situation?? Because I wouldn't be surprised if schools like USC do that. Afterall, the NCAA will do anything (including sucking dick) for a buck.