Financial Crisis

[Cuda]

Put it this way -- a friend's family owned a house on the beach, that they were paying taxes on 120K value... assessment went to $420K the very next year.

But your Mayor/Congressperson/Governor/State Representatives's cronies-errrr, campaign contributor-errrr, family fliends multi-million dollar, high-rise office buildings are assessed at a $420k value too, so everything's even

[Mikey]

RACK Prop 13 (I think).
Of course our schools have gone into the shitter.

Get rid of the Mexicans. We're going to spend 58.1 billion dollars on education this year, so let's not pretend that there isn't enough money for education.

Shit, if that happened the schools in Fallbrook would look like deflated balloons.

[Derron]

Put it this way -- a friend's family owned a house on the beach, that they were paying taxes on 120K value... assessment went to $420K the very next year.

But your Mayor/Congressperson/Governor/State Representatives's cronies-errrr, campaign contributor-errrr, family fliends multi-million dollar, high-rise office buildings are assessed at a $420k value too, so everything's even

No.... more than likely they are in some kind of enterprise zone that limits the property taxes at nothing for 10 years for the development aspect.

Kind of like when Washington County capped Intels tax values at 100 million on 2 full blown fab plants and assorted research facilities valued at over 2 billion dollars....

[PSUFAN]

Team Nutsack? Did I miss something good? :cry:

--Kid Gashville

[BSmack]

That would be unless you are in farm deferral ..where your taxes are veeerrrryyy low since we farm a qualifying portion of the property and make the qualifying amount your taxes are about $ 1,200 a year on a $ 500,000 property.

I have an uncle who has been running the farm deferral racket for years. His real job is that of a civil engineer, but he raises about 20 head of beef cattle, sells a few of them every year and pays next to nothing in taxes on his 200 acres of land because his land is considered a "family farm" for purposes of taxation. Nice deal, but he does have to shovel some shit to get it.

[Derron]

That would be unless you are in farm deferral ..where your taxes are veeerrrryyy low since we farm a qualifying portion of the property and make the qualifying amount your taxes are about $ 1,200 a year on a $ 500,000 property.

I have an uncle who has been running the farm deferral racket for years. His real job is that of a civil engineer, but he raises about 20 head of beef cattle, sells a few of them every year and pays next to nothing in taxes on his 200 acres of land because his land is considered a "family farm" for purposes of taxation. Nice deal, but he does have to shovel some shit to get it.

I shovel no shit..just grow the crops, which I do make pretty good money on as well. Could also rent it out for duck hunting, but that stays free for the select few..including the tax assessor. There are some people who have huge fucking mansions, and have the right amount of land, farm enough of it or farm it " on shares" to make the deferral legal, and skate on the huge taxes.

Rack government loopholes.

[War Wagon]

This state is a Northern state, but really serious dumbfucks floating around.

No doubt.

[Screw_Michigan]

This state is a Northern state, but really serious dumbfucks floating around.

:doh: It's Indiana. You live in Indiana. Pret-tay easy math.

Top five highest density states for dumbfuckery, without a fucking doubt:

1. Indiana
2. Alaska
3. Wisconsin
4. Mississippi
5. Louisiana

[Dinsdale]

I have an uncle who has been running the farm deferral racket for years. His real job is that of a civil engineer, but he raises about 20 head of beef cattle, sells a few of them every year and pays next to nothing in taxes on his 200 acres of land because his land is considered a "family farm" for purposes of taxation. Nice deal, but he does have to shovel some shit to get it.

Oregon produces over 25% of all christmas trees sold in the US. One reason is obvious -- fir trees grow like weeds in Northwestern Oregon. But... if a person has a bunch of land in a developable area, the assessed value of the property is so high that property tax isn't affordable to a person of reasonable means. But cover it with christmas trees, and it becomes an agricultural enterprise. And since you can put christmas tree stock in the ground and essentially forget about it for the next 15 years, while getting the farm deferral. Then, once it's overgrown and has no value as christmas threes, it then becomes "timber," which also gets the deferral... even though christmas tree stock has absolutely no value as lumber (christmas tree stock is hybridized/bred to have more branches, hence more knots... very knotty stuff), and is worthless beyond firewood.

Pretty sweet gig. Makes getting a christmas tree a pretty low-cost proposition round these parts... not that I care. I'd just as soon plant one as cut one down.

Although there's also plenty of "real," serious commercial christmas tree outfits, as well... not all of them are a tax dodge (Sup Hagg Tree Farm... sup Derron).

[Goober McTuber]

Nice deal, but he does have to shovel some shit to get it.

Now we know where you learned it. :wink:

[Derron]

Although there's also plenty of "real," serious commercial christmas tree outfits, as well... not all of them are a tax dodge (Sup Hagg Tree Farm... sup Derron).

Nor would any of them be week end growers who open 3 weeks a year and report every last dime they make to the IRS. Friend of mine out neigh Pumpkin Ridge clears about 8k a year on Christmas trees....does not report, but takes the expenses of course..

Hagg Tree Farm ..right on.. the barn, animals, and hot chocolate...couple of chicks in elf outfits used to look pretty good..have not been there in about 10 years, since my kids are all growed up.

[smackaholic]

The real $$$$$ crop in oregon is pumpkins.

Don't believe me?

Them fuggin' midjits on TV have just put like a 19000 square foot addition on.

Dins, why don't you head out to the midget pumpkin patch and see if all their permits are in order. I think they are over on the dry side.

[Rack Fu]

This state is a Northern state, but really serious dumbfucks floating around.

:doh: It's Indiana. You live in Indiana. Pret-tay easy math.

Top five highest density states for dumbfuckery, without a fucking doubt:

1. Indiana
2. Alaska
3. Wisconsin
4. Mississippi
5. Louisiana

Your rankings are certainly flawed. The folks from Missouri on this board alone easily give Missouri a top two ranking.

[War Wagon]

My opinion of the qualifications required to be an FBI agent drop every time you post, Fu.

Sloped foreheads seem to be a requisite.

[Goober McTuber]

my kids are all growed up.

"Reared" by Derron, they were.

[Rack Fu]

My opinion of the qualifications required to be an FBI agent drop every time you post, Fu.

Sloped foreheads seem to be a requisite.

Posts like that are certainly going to help Missouri's cause, dolt. Thanks for proving me wrong.

[Dinsdale]

Hagg Tree Farm ..right on.. the barn, animals, and hot chocolate...couple of chicks in elf outfits used to look pretty good

Haven't seen her much since she married up and squeezed a puppy (sup biological clock ticking away), but the owner, Sherry, was an old party buddy of mine. The one chick who'd be up puring everyone shots after the bars closed and the hardcores gathered. Excellent drinker, she was.

The real $$$$$ crop in oregon is pumpkins.

Don't believe me?

Them fuggin' midjits on TV have just put like a 19000 square foot addition on.

Dins, why don't you head out to the midget pumpkin patch and see if all their permits are in order. I think they are over on the dry side.

Dryside?

No. Not too far from me (outskirts of the Western Burbs, same county that derron and I both live in, albeit opposite ends... near Pumpkin Ridge where they've had the US Women's Open and Tiger won Am Championships... it's not exactly too far off the beaten path). Rolloffs are right behind the Helvetia Tavern (legendary for their burgers, for some reason that's beyond me). My bro used to live at the winery down the road (fucking ragtag outfit), and held the same opinion of the Rolloffs is the same as everyone else in the Helvetia area -- those people are not well liked.

But at least the midget fuck got out of his DUII just for being a midget. Thatwas fresh.

[Derron]

The real $$$$$ crop in oregon is pumpkins.

Don't believe me?

Them fuggin' midjits on TV have just put like a 19000 square foot addition on.

Dins, why don't you head out to the midget pumpkin patch and see if all their permits are in order. I think they are over on the dry side.

$$$ in pumpkins my fucking ass...those midgets don't make that off that fucking freak side show they call a farm market..Everyone goes up there to see the midgets...if they made 10 grand they would be lucky..there is only about 12 or 50 other of those farm things within 10 miles..and the others you can take the kiddos for a train ride, or a boat ride, or some shit like that and not have to see some freak show..

Maybe if they launched one of the midgets in that trebouche' they have up there..that might get some interest...

Oh and as far as permits go...." agricultural structure" pretty much keeps the permit inspectors away, for like forever...

[smackaholic]

Sorry derron. I forgot the [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags.

My OL watches that dumb fuggin' show religiously. Same with the even stupider one with the half dozen half gook kids. I hate that fukkin' show. I will occasionally watch the midjits because the non midjit daughter is turning into a somewhat bangable young lady.

As for midgit trebouche launches. Hell ya!! That shit is pay per view material.

[smackaholic]

This state is a Northern state, but really serious dumbfucks floating around.

:doh: It's Indiana. You live in Indiana. Pret-tay easy math.

Top five highest density states for dumbfuckery, without a fucking doubt:

1. Indiana
2. Alaska
3. Wisconsin
4. Mississippi
5. Louisiana

Gotta call bullshit on this list. The SEC has to have atleast 3 spots.

[Derron]

I will occasionally watch the midjits because the non midjit daughter is turning into a somewhat bangable young lady.

As for midgit trebouche launches. Hell ya!! That shit is pay per view material.

So we write the screenplay for this thing....midgit boy bangs hottie non midget sister in an incest orgy..then discovered by midgit parents, who overpower his ass, put him in trebouche and launch him into Din's backyard.

The next scene is Dins banging hottie non midget daughter at his crib , when midgit comes flying through the roof just as hottie non midgit daughter is screaming " Oh my god..I am coming" and Dins is screaming " Hows does this feel bitch ? "

Rack anything with midgit porn or violence in it..

[smackaholic]

How 'bout dins goes out to the farm to do some sort of menial labor type shit and takes a liking to the hottie sister. The midget sees dins and figures, damn, I'll bet that dude can score us some weed.

So the midget and dins work out a deal. Midget puts a little something in sis' drink, then totes her out to that midget western town they own in the "mule".

Dins puts the square headed deck screw to her in every way imaginable, plus a few others. Big bro and dad catch them. They shoot dins in the leg, crippling him. Then they hook his package into the trebuche and launch it.

[Terry in Crapchester]

The state laws in Indiana are changing for property taxes. Any house in the price range I bought would have ridiculous taxes right now. Next year, it is going into effect that taxes cannot be more than 1% the value of the home. For homes bought within the last 5 years, that value will be the the price you paid for it. So, when the real estate market goes up, home values will be re-evaluated based upon comps. As it stands, come next year, I will be paying very low taxes. That's why I would not want real estate values to go up. This is my home for life.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


Oh, did I mention...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!



I'm guessing the Indiana tax assessor-types are on the phone with the Oregon Department of Revenue right now, figuring all the ways they're going to find loopholes to fuck you.


Oregon has been there, done that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Bal ... e_5_(1990)


And you'll never guess what happened...

Go ahead and take a big ol' guess at what they did to everyone's assessed tax value on their property... go ahead, take a guess.


Put it this way -- a friend's family owned a house on the beach, that they were paying taxes on 120K value... assessment went to $420K the very next year.


When The Man decides he's taking your money, voters' will be damned -- they're taking it.

That cautionary tale notwithstanding, I certainly hope New York will do something like that.

If New York capped property taxes at 1% of assessed value, they'd pretty much have to quadruple my assessed value just to keep my property taxes flat. And I don't think even they are stupid/greedy enough to do that. Of course, I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for that law to pass.

Property tax rates in New York are teh suck.

[Goober McTuber]

I will occasionally watch the midjits because the non midjit daughter is turning into a somewhat bangable young lady.

So we write the screenplay for this thing....midgit boy bangs hottie non midget sister in an incest orgy..then discovered by midgit parents, who overpower his ass, put him in trebouche and launch him into Din's backyard.

The next scene is Dins banging hottie non midget daughter at his crib , when midgit comes flying through the roof just as hottie non midgit daughter is screaming " Oh my god..I am coming" and Dins is screaming " Hows does this feel bitch ? "

Rack anything with midgit porn or violence in it..

The “non midjit daughter” is 15 years old. Nice to know that Tardowen, .m2 and Diego aren’t the only pedophiles on this board.

[BSmack]

That cautionary tale notwithstanding, I certainly hope New York will do something like that.

If New York capped property taxes at 1% of assessed value, they'd pretty much have to quadruple my assessed value just to keep my property taxes flat. And I don't think even they are stupid/greedy enough to do that. Of course, I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for that law to pass.

Property tax rates in New York are teh suck.

They don't suck if you're trying to buy a decent house at a price commensurate with the kind of wages an average working person makes. But, now that I own a house, if they want to rig a ponzi scheme like California's that would guarantee that my home would triple in value, they're free to do so.

[smackaholic]

goobs,

If you haven't looked at some hot little 15 year old tart and thought to yourself, "dayum", then you're either....

a. gax
3th. blind
XI. from wisconsin, where they are all atleast 40 lbs overweight by the time they are done with junior high.

That being said, if you actually do something with a 15 year old, you are indeed a fukking ped and need to be stuffed under the jail.

[Goober McTuber]

goobs,

If you haven't looked at some hot little 15 year old tart and thought to yourself, "dayum", then you're either....

a. gax
3th. blind
XI. from wisconsin, where they are all atleast 40 lbs overweight by the time they are done with junior high.
4. Not a pedophile.

That being said, if you actually do something with a 15 year old, you are indeed a fukking ped and need to be stuffed under the jail.

When you know a child is underage, and you imagine performing sex acts on that child, you are a pedophile. Props to you, though, for not following through on your vile urges.

[Terry in Crapchester]

That cautionary tale notwithstanding, I certainly hope New York will do something like that.

If New York capped property taxes at 1% of assessed value, they'd pretty much have to quadruple my assessed value just to keep my property taxes flat. And I don't think even they are stupid/greedy enough to do that. Of course, I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for that law to pass.

Property tax rates in New York are teh suck.

They don't suck if you're trying to buy a decent house at a price commensurate with the kind of wages an average working person makes. But, now that I own a house, if they want to rig a ponzi scheme like California's that would guarantee that my home would triple in value, they're free to do so.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it.

I bought my house five years ago for $105,000. Property taxes run me about $4,500/year.

Of course, if you were to plop that same house down in a similarly-sized lot in California, its value would increase by a factor of about 5 or 6. I'd probably pay a little more in property taxes as well. But certainly not by a factor of 5 or 6.

If we don't have the highest property tax rates in the country relative to assessed value, we're pretty damn close.

[BSmack]

That cautionary tale notwithstanding, I certainly hope New York will do something like that.

If New York capped property taxes at 1% of assessed value, they'd pretty much have to quadruple my assessed value just to keep my property taxes flat. And I don't think even they are stupid/greedy enough to do that. Of course, I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for that law to pass.

Property tax rates in New York are teh suck.

They don't suck if you're trying to buy a decent house at a price commensurate with the kind of wages an average working person makes. But, now that I own a house, if they want to rig a ponzi scheme like California's that would guarantee that my home would triple in value, they're free to do so.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it.

I bought my house five years ago for $105,000. Property taxes run me about $4,500/year.

Of course, if you were to plop that same house down in a similarly-sized lot in California, its value would increase by a factor of about 5 or 6. I'd probably pay a little more in property taxes as well. But certainly not by a factor of 5 or 6.

If we don't have the highest property tax rates in the country relative to assessed value, we're pretty damn close.

No doubt that if you already own property, the best thing that could ever happen to your bottom line would be a reduction to 1% of assessed value. I will never argue that. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint of a person who is looking to get into the a house.

Let's say that house of yours increased from 105k to 500k as a result of inflated valuation due to a flat 1% tax rate. For you that's not a big deal. Like you said, you would still be paying the same overall tax amount, you would just be paying it on property worth 500k while paying on a mortgage with a principal value under 100k. But a person looking to get into the market making say 60k a year would be looking at carrying a mortgage of 350-400k in principal. That translates into a principal and interest payment of over 2 thousand a month before property taxes are calculated. Factor in taxes and you're looking at a monthly payment of 2500 or more for a house that in the current market you can get into for about 1000 a month PITI.

And I'm assuming with those calculations that the buyer had been able to save for a 20% down payment. Obviously if you inflate property values, fewer homeowners will be able to afford a 20% down payment. So you can increase those numbers even more to factor in the interest rates on sub prime loans and PMI.

But, like I said before, you and I are on the top of the pyramid that is this proposed ponzi scheme. We'll do just fine. Just understand that you working class children and grandchildren will be the ones paying the freight down the line.

[Terry in Crapchester]

No doubt that if you already own property, the best thing that could ever happen to your bottom line would be a reduction to 1% of assessed value. I will never argue that. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint of a person who is looking to get into the a house.

Let's say that house of yours increased from 105k to 500k as a result of inflated valuation due to a flat 1% tax rate. For you that's not a big deal. Like you said, you would still be paying the same overall tax amount, you would just be paying it on property worth 500k while paying on a mortgage with a principal value under 100k. But a person looking to get into the market making say 60k a year would be looking at carrying a mortgage of 350-400k in principal. That translates into a principal and interest payment of over 2 thousand a month before property taxes are calculated. Factor in taxes and you're looking at a monthly payment of 2500 or more for a house that in the current market you can get into for about 1000 a month PITI.

And I'm assuming with those calculations that the buyer had been able to save for a 20% down payment. Obviously if you inflate property values, fewer homeowners will be able to afford a 20% down payment. So you can increase those numbers even more to factor in the interest rates on sub prime loans and PMI.

But, like I said before, you and I are on the top of the pyramid that is this proposed ponzi scheme. We'll do just fine. Just understand that you working class children and grandchildren will be the ones paying the freight down the line.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a property tax cap artificially inflating the market value of property. Not around here, anyway.

We really can't compare ourselves to California in that regard. Let's not forget, there are people moving into California from other places just about every day. Since I was a kid, California has gained 10 seats in the House of Representatives. New York, over the same period of time, has lost 10 seats in the House of Representatives, and probably would've lost more than that if not for downstate.

Around here, population grows by about 1-2% per decade, which is less than the difference between birth rate and death rate. Bottom line is that people are moving out of upstate New York at a far higher rate than people are moving in here from other areas. And although there's a certain contingent which contends that taxes are the only reason for that, you and I both know that isn't true. People will continue to move out of this area regardless of whether a property tax cap is ever put in place, and that fact will certainly hedge against any artificial inflation of property values.

[smackaholic]

Terry,

People are not moving out of upstate NOW because of high taxes. They move out now because it is a depressed shithole. 30 years ago, they did move out because of high taxes.

I see CT going the way of upstate for the same reasons. We are not there already because of our proximity to NYC and Boston. But even that can not justify the criminal tax rates we deal with today. I just hope to hell that in 10 years when both kids are done with school, it isn't too late. I'd like to think that my house will still have some value then. Either way, it will be paid for, so whatever crappy little bit I get for it will go into my pocket.

Or, I could just stay put and hope that I can weather the storm long enough for the people of this state along with plenty other states, to get to where the big 3 is right now. That is when they will basically go bankrupt and tell the state employee unions to go fukk themselves. Just like detroit is in the process of doing to the UAW as we speak.

Until that happens, states like ny, ct, every other U&R state are playing GM to the sunbelt state's Toyota.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Terry,

People are not moving out of upstate NOW because of high taxes. They move out now because it is a depressed shithole. 30 years ago, they did move out because of high taxes.

Agree that the economy has taken a dramatic turn for the worse over the past 30 years, and that high taxes were a factor in people leaving 30 years ago. But not the only one.

One other factor, again not the only one but certainly a factor, was higher education. New York didn't get SUNY up and running until the 60's. For those of you scoring at home, that's the 1960's, not the 1860's. Or put another way, about 150-200 years later than most other eastern states had their state university systems up and running. The upshot was that New York long had been, and even to this day is, a net exporter of college students. With that going on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that some of the kids leaving the state for college won't be coming back after graduation.

[GrizBearStare]

I lost my job. I was a GM for Red Lion Hotels and was laid off when they decided to consolidate the management of several hotels in the region. I hadn't been with the company a really long time and this was my first GM gig. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't taken the job because I was working for a good hotel ownership company out in Issaquah (WA) prior to that.

But it could be worse. I am still pretty young and am going back to school in Butte to get an electrical engineering degree. With the transfer credits I have from my first degree back in 2002, I should be able to get it done in about 2 to 2.5 years.

I didn't buy a house but was seriously considering it prior to all this, so I guess I should be thankful for that. In the meantime, I found a job working for DirecTV to pay the bills in the near term. I have some savings and a 401K, though it looks more like a 201K at this point.

Like the man said, "It ain't about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and still keep moving forward"

[Screw_Michigan]

I lost my job. I was a GM for Red Lion Hotels and was laid off when they decided to consolidate the management of several hotels in the region. I hadn't been with the company a really long time and this was my first GM gig. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't taken the job because I was working for a good hotel ownership company out in Issaquah (WA) prior to that.

But it could be worse. I am still pretty young and am going back to school in Butte to get an electrical engineering degree. With the transfer credits I have from my first degree back in 2002, I should be able to get it done in about 2 to 2.5 years.

I didn't buy a house but was seriously considering it prior to all this, so I guess I should be thankful for that. In the meantime, I found a job working for DirecTV to pay the bills in the near term. I have some savings and a 401K, though it looks more like a 201K at this point.

Like the man said, "It ain't about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and still keep moving forward"

Temping now? Nice gig you got there, loser.

Sincerely,

Goober McFucktard

[Goober McTuber]

I lost my job. I was a GM for Red Lion Hotels and was laid off when they decided to consolidate the management of several hotels in the region. I hadn't been with the company a really long time and this was my first GM gig. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't taken the job because I was working for a good hotel ownership company out in Issaquah (WA) prior to that.

But it could be worse. I am still pretty young and am going back to school in Butte to get an electrical engineering degree. With the transfer credits I have from my first degree back in 2002, I should be able to get it done in about 2 to 2.5 years.

I didn't buy a house but was seriously considering it prior to all this, so I guess I should be thankful for that. In the meantime, I found a job working for DirecTV to pay the bills in the near term. I have some savings and a 401K, though it looks more like a 201K at this point.

Like the man said, "It ain't about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and still keep moving forward"

Temping now? Nice gig you got there, loser.

Sincerely,

Goober McFucktard

Hey, Screwball, are you actually capable anymore of putting together even one of your shitty little posts without referencing me?

[Screw_Michigan]

Can you make a post without jocking my nuts, dickhead?

[BSmack]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a property tax cap artificially inflating the market value of property. Not around here, anyway.

You just said that you estimated that your local assessors would have to jack up the assessed value of your home by 5x to raise the same revenue they are getting from you now. That, by definition, will raise the value of your property. Now will it go up the full 5x? Probably not. But it will most certainly go up dramatically. For one, lending institutions will act to drive the values up as they leverage the new assessed values to drive sales in the home equity loan market.

We really can't compare ourselves to California in that regard. Let's not forget, there are people moving into California from other places just about every day. Since I was a kid, California has gained 10 seats in the House of Representatives. New York, over the same period of time, has lost 10 seats in the House of Representatives, and probably would've lost more than that if not for downstate.

Around here, population grows by about 1-2% per decade, which is less than the difference between birth rate and death rate. Bottom line is that people are moving out of upstate New York at a far higher rate than people are moving in here from other areas. And although there's a certain contingent which contends that taxes are the only reason for that, you and I both know that isn't true. People will continue to move out of this area regardless of whether a property tax cap is ever put in place, and that fact will certainly hedge against any artificial inflation of property values.

We also lose a lot of old folks (wassup Big O?) to southern climates with lower tax rates. A cap on property taxes will encourage older property owners to stay in NY. As I recall, retention of older property owners was a primary factor behind Prop 13 in California. If you have more owners holding properties, you reduce the overall inventory of for sale properties and prices of the remaining properties will escalate accordingly.

IMO, the real answer isn't some kind of artificial cap on taxes. The real answer is streamlining necessary government services and eliminating the excessive governmental redundancy. We have citizens who pay state, county, town, school and village taxes. There's no need for that many layers of government. For starters, counties should operate as a single metro government and unfunded mandates should be made unconstitutional. That alone would cut our taxes by half.

[Goober McTuber]

Can you make a post without kicking my nuts, dickhead?

FTFY. I'll try.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a property tax cap artificially inflating the market value of property. Not around here, anyway.

You just said that you estimated that your local assessors would have to jack up the assessed value of your home by 5x to raise the same revenue they are getting from you now. That, by definition, will raise the value of your property.

Ahh, but now you're talking assessed value. As you know full well, actual value is something quite a bit different. Regardless of where the house is assessed, in actuality it will never be worth more than I could get for it on the market.

Is it possible that actual value will increase the actual property values somewhat? I suppose so, but nowhere near the 5x or so I mentioned. And working against that is the fact that the real property market here is clearly a buyer's market. For example, in the town where I live, I have lived here 11 years. In some places, that would make me one of the longer-tenured residents. Here? Well, most people who live here live here because their parents, grandparents, and in some cases, great-grandparents and so on, lived here. I'm probably the most recent addition to the community over the age of, oh I dunno, 11 or so.

We have citizens who pay state, county, town, school and village taxes.

I'd be one of them. Of course, I could vote with my feet, and eliminate at least the village tax aspect. But there's a non-monetary quid pro quo there as well.

In my case, being in the village means that there are kids for my kids to play with within walking distance. I don't have to drive them somewhere everytime they want to play with a friend. That's not always practical, let alone economical.

Also, moving out of the village and into the outlying town, mostly rural in character, would necessitate the acquisition of a large dog, given the population of coyotes out in the rural areas (they generally leave the village alone, since that was pretty densely populated by the time they moved in). My wife and kids are cat lovers, so we have a few. I'd also want a dog to protect my 3-year-old just in case (I'm pretty sure the coyotes would leave the 10-year-old alone).

But your solution of streamlining government is the best bet, imho.

[Goober McTuber]

We also lose a lot of old folks (wassup Big O?) to southern climates with lower tax rates.

Please don’t tell me you really believe retirees move from NY because of the tax rates?

It’s the climate, stupid.