Yo, Dins

[War Wagon]

You remember when we were having a spirited debate about who should be drafted first a coupla' years ago, Oden or Durant?

I do. I think you called me some bad names.

How's that been going, anyway? I don't pay much any attention to the NBA, but I saw a little note in the paper the other day about how Oden had scored all of 2 points in a game and it was like the lowest point total ever for the #1 pick... and I thought about YOU... and I laffed.

So I did a bit of research and it looks like Durant is averaging 23.5 points per game and Oden 8.5. Roughly. That about right? Maybe I read those numbers wrong.

[Dinsdale]

Well, maybe your "bits of research" should maybe include...

Oh, I dunno...

Maybe following some games?


Are you fucking serious?


I doubt there's one NBA GM who would take Bust Durant over Oden right now.


2 points? For a guy who was drafted for defense? WOW, man.


How's Durant's defense looking? Got any stats on how badly his assignment lights him up every night, since he don't play D?


I'll still take the Big Fella, thanks very much... without hesitation.



But... I'll come up with some more names to call you... since you've decided to comment on NBA shit that you're clearly clueless about.


Uhm... Whitey... you DO realize that Durant was CLEARLY the wrong pick at #2, right?


You DO know that the #3 is a FAR superior player to Durant, right... and it's not even close...


RIGHT? Please tell me you're trolling?


Because I KNOW you're not jocking a 6'10" "big man" who's absolutely terrified of the paint, right?



BTW-it's 21.1 points. And less than one offensive board a game... are you fucking kidding? And I believe he's still searching for his first NBA assist.

Oden is averaging almost 8 boards and 1.5 blocks a game... in 22 minutes.


Frankly, if the Zers would have blown that coveted pick on Durant, I'd be fucking PISSED. He's Travis Outlaw without as much athleticism (Outlaw would average 30 on that sorry team, being featured)... and would be picking at pine while better wing players (sup Roy and Fernandez) took all of his minutes, because they actually make the shots they jack up.


In retrospect, the team that really got over in that draft was Atlanta. Horford is the real deal, and...

eyes open, Whitey?


Horford has actually made a difference on his team... as has Oldman, to an extent.

Durant -- They traded a far superior shot-jacker to get a potential shot-jacker that just ain't working out. I'm not trying to bash Durant, and I'm years from writing off his "potential," since he's not in a good position to succeed....


But dude...


Reality called... they want their "you" back.


Kevin Durant was a GREAT college player.

So was Christian Laettner.

Even Derrick Coleman thinks the dude is overhyped.


Last year's ROY award was a complete fucking joke... like all of the voters were from Toronto or something... an absolute fucking joke... Durant wasn't even close to the best rook... and ain't the best soph, either... and probably isn't as valuable long-term as Greggy, even though he's playing a much easier position to learn.


Pretty sure I could score 20 per in the Association if I got to handle the ball 200 times a game, and shoot at will (which he certainly does).


Sorry, douche, but you're so ignorant as to the subject at hand, I'm not even sure you're worthy of any sort of discussion...


But props for making me laugh.... at least you and Durant both have that going for you with your feebleness.

[RumpleForeskin]

Nice spin on it, Dins.

Durant is not as bad as you say he is and Oden averaging 8 and 8 as a no. 1 overall pick aint getting it done.

Durant is a better player this year on a really bad team. His FG% is up and his Player Efficiency Rating(18.36) is actually better than your boy Oden's (16.37).

You take the good and bad with Durant and the good and bad with Oden and I see more room for improvement for Durant because defensive skills are so much easier to develop than the offensive skills. Once Durant learns how to add on about 20 lbs, the rebounds will come along with his ability to put his body on the opposition when defending one-on-one.

23.3/5.2/1.9 isn't exaclty crap, Dins.

Not only that, but how much more effective could Durant really be if he had any supporting cast. Jeff Green is no LeMarcus Alridge or Brandon Roy.

Seriously, if you switch roles with Durant and Oden, then I seriously can't see where Oklahoma City would have double the wins they have now. Defense helps, but taking away their number one scorer pretty much leaves them with nothing on the offensive end of court. As for Durant's role with the Blazers, well they would be putting up numbers like the Phoenix Suns from a couple of seasons ago.

[Dinsdale]

You take the good and bad with Durant and the good and bad with Oden and I see more room for improvement for Durant because defensive skills are so much easier to develop than the offensive skills.

Can't. Stop. Laughing.


Team defense is MUCH more complicated than offense... tell me you knew?

Once Durant learns how to add on about 20 lbs

Baby steps dude... he should set his sights on hoisting 185 on the bench press at least once before he thinks about that "inside presence" thing.

Not only that, but how much more effective could Durant really be if he had any supporting cast.

So... you cite scoring (only statistical category Durant isn't a laughingstock in), then turn around and cite a lack of supporting cast?


Oh no, you Di'UHNT!

Seriously, if you switch roles with Durant and Oden, then I seriously can't see where Oklahoma City would have double the wins they have now. Defense helps, but taking away their number one scorer pretty much leaves them with nothing on the offensive end of court.

Dear God, where to begin...


Yeah, it's pretty hard to replace a guy who plays NO defense and jacks up a shot every time he touches the ball to the tune of 40%...


I mean, where can you find a guy like that?


OK, I remember now... you find them in the D League... by the dozen.


Maybe if Seattle had Oden, they wouldn't be ponying up 48% from the field... yup, you read that right... but when your "star" is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the league, and lets his man shoot anything he wants (sup Zach Randolph), these things happen.

As for Durant's role with the Blazers, well they would be putting up numbers like the Phoenix Suns from a couple of seasons ago.

They'd be putting up the same numbers as they are now... since Durant would be the 4th best wing player on the roster, and would be struggling to find minutes... no joke... not even a good debate.



You and Whitey should watch some games together (although I'm all about giving All Star votes to Aaron Brooks, as is almost everyone I know).

[RumpleForeskin]

I knew the trolling would persist you fucking dipshit.

Durant is shooting 46% which is only 1% less than your boy Roy. Not only that, but he is 8th in the league in shots per game, but go on ahead and make it sound like he is heaving it up from everywhere. Do the math, dumfuck, Durant is 10th in scoring and 8th in shots taken. That is almost on par with his scoring average. But wait, I will take it step further since you are the dismissing type, Durant is 3rd among small forwards in scoring (The King and Granger) and it just so happens he takes less attempts than both of those guys at his position. That is pretty fucking on par as a scorer at his position. Tell me you knew.

But your right, Durant scores a lot because he shoots a lot. What-the-fuck-ever.

Riddle me this, trollsdale, how is team defense a concept that one player has complete control of? Yeah, I get there are assignments guys have to catch on in a quick set or a fastbreak, but learning individual skills defensively is much easier than learning the offensive ones. Believe me, as a former high school player and the numerous camps I attended, I know a little about that part of the game. Tables have turned there, love muffin.

Oh yeah, you make it sound like OKC has the worst defense in the league when its so evident that their offense is 29th in the league in scoring and their defense is 22nd. Sounds to me like the defense isn't the bigger problem here. It's their offense.

Keep spinning, buttercup. Keep spinning.

[Dinsdale]

Dude... you're the one spinning here.


Durant... just hasn't impressed.


BUT...


Don't get me wrong. He ain't earned the "bust" tag, or even come close. He's been put in a position to do nothing but fail... and to that end, he certainly hasn't disappointed.


You're not going to try and sell me that he's an elite player, despite the stats, are you?


Sorry... jury's still out on Oden. Still out on Durant, although he's looking like the next Dominique... all stats, no wins, and doesn't give a fuck. The jury returned a verdict on Horford... he's guilty of being MUCH better than Durant.


BTW-no wonder your hoops career went nowhere -- team defense is MUCH more complicated than offense... and I'm busting up that someone suggested otherwise.


I'll save final judgement on Durant (who seems like a nice guys, and I feel for his miserable situation) until he signs with another team in a year or two (bet the farm on that one... and if he doesn't, the jury says he's a complete selfish loser, in it for the dough and stats).


BTW- your insinuated comparison to Roy was taken for the very, very funny joke it was... EAD, Danny Ainge (although that move solidifies his status as U&L Guy. Speaking of... gee, a team with selfless BRoy and the ego-freak known as the Big Dickhead wouldn't have won very many games, eh? I wouldn't fire McHale -- I'd have him killed).

[Rack Fu]

The only stat that really makes a difference right now:

Durant 107
Oden 21

That's games played in the NBA.

[Dinsdale]

That's a very Durant-like way of looking at things, Fu.

Whereas in reality, the only stat that matters:

Oden 17

Durant 3



You can try and argue scoreboard-sematics, but in the end...


17 to 3.


BTW-despite the inequality in games played... Oden will probably pass Durant's career offensive rebound total by the end of this week.

Nothing like a 6'10" guy who admires Rasheed Wallace's toughness in the paint. As many shots as Durant bricks, you'd think he might follow them and get some scrappy boards... but no.


BTW-nice assist-to-turnover ratio, Durant. Ranks tight there with the worst of the worst in the NBA... there is that. You expect low asst/TO ratios from low post players... but from a wing? That's an atrocious freaking stat.


So, in summary... he doesn't pass the ball, he doesn't take care of the ball, and he hoists it like it's going out of style, while putting up a jump-shooter's FG%, does absolutely nothing on the offensixe glass except run from it, and gets defensive boards when they fall into his hands, all the while making an All Star out of whoever he's gaurding that night.


But he has room for improvement, right? Except his assist totals are down from last season, but he's compensating for it with more turnovers... how is that even possible?


Al Horford -- a low post player who NEVER has an offensive play run for him or through him, is averaging more assists per game than the ball-handling Durant... unbelievable.


If the Wayback Machine got fired up and we went back and redid the 07 draft, it would probably look like:

1. Probably Oden, because athletic huge guys just don't come around very often.

2. And a very strong case could be made for #1, would be Horford... the guy who kinda led his team to back-to-backs, while Durant was busy trying to set the NCAA Tourney record for "bad shots taken," to go along with his ZERO (if I remember correctly) assists for the entire tourney (although he did have one in the conf. tourney)

3. Probably Durant.

4. U&L Stuckey looks like he's coming along nicely.




While some of you seem to be enamored with Durant because of what he did at Texas, maybe you should watch a game or two, so you can realize that the pleasant, smiling kid who put up shots at a clip that makes Reggie Miller blush while dedicating himself to never passing the ball once in his career, isn't parlaying that into a particularly æffective NBA player... his skillset is just too limited, and he doesn't appear to be working on it.


Frankly, for all the hype of the 07 draft, the sophmore results are pretty damn underwhelming. While Oden is coming on quite nicely (since you guys seem to think that scoring is all that matters, and apparently don't watch games, so haven't been sitting there giggling as slashers come down the lane, see a beast, make a change in decision, and turn the ball over, often more than once per game... which statistical category does that show up in again?), he's a year behind where we hoped for him to be due to the injury. But he's progressing fairly well.

Durant seems to actually be getting worse as time passes. Again, my jury will be out until such a time that he actually plays for a real team, and is given the chance to succeed, which he clearly doesn't have now. I think there's a lot of pressure on him to Dominique, but boy, he's sure embraced that role... which is disturbing. Most coaches don't yell at you for hitting an open cutter to the hoop... no, really. Dominique Durant should try it sometime -- his team might win a game. But then again, if the guy made an attempt at defense, his team might not be giving up almost 50 fucking percent shooting.



So really, the only guy from that draft who is truly impressive is Godfather Horford. Oh, and Rudy Fernandez looks like the ROY so far, although Rose is pretty awesome at times... and starts. While Ruuuuuuuudy is from the 07 draft, he didn't come over until this season.


Mayo is a team-killer... was at USC, is in the pros.

But if we're talking 2007 draft busts... anyone remember all the hype around Yi? How many times is that guy going to get traded in the next couple of years?


Some of the late first round and second round picks are coming along nicely, though -- Joakim Laettner, Thornton, Stuckey, Crittenton, QQMF Brooks, CARL LANDRY... a few diamonds in the rough, for sure.

[DoggFather]

Just gonna chime in on a couple things because I am that bored.

Trying to compare Durant to Chips-A-Roy is straight bananas. I think after that game against the Suns people on the east coast have started realizing what we, on the west coast, have already known. Dude's all about winning and is a great leader for his team. However, one thing he still needs to do as a leader is to tell that 20-year old senior citizen to stop slapping the damn glass after a dunk. Act like you've been here before Oden. BTW, I think that corn-fed mule Przybilla should be starting over Oden. I don't think they'd miss a beat. Maybe all that pressure that Oden's putting on himself would diminish some.

In regards to Durant. The first 12 games of the season, his defense was non-existent. Being 6-10 and trying to keep up with shooting guards can be pretty difficult. Once he made the move to small forward after the coaching change, believe it or not, his defense improved. Not only that, but his FG%, 3-PT%, rebounding, steals, blocks, and assists all went up, while his turnovers went down. Of course he had no chance against a guy like LeBron James, but who does? And I saw that game against the Clippers. Zach Randolph did go off, but it wasn't against Durant. Jeff Green was the culprit in that game. Durant was awarded Al Thornton, who he put in foul trouble and held him to 12 points. The boy can play.

Just my dos centavos.

[War Wagon]

2 points? For a guy who was drafted for defense? WOW, man.

Nobody drafts the #1 NBA pick solely for defense, Spinsdale. Are you fucking kidding? Maybe in the NFL they do. No doubt, they expected more scoring. I wish I could find that thread or threads we were going back and forth in to see what your expectations were at that time. 8 rebounds and 1.5 blocks wouldn't measure up is my guess.

But... I'll come up with some more names to call you... since you've decided to comment on NBA shit that you're clearly clueless about.

RIGHT? Please tell me you're trolling?

To a degree.

I freely admit that I don't pay attention to the NBA these days. Without a dog in the hunt, the game is boring to me. If KC were to ever get a team... sighh.

The Kings had a nice run here back in the day and I went to a LOT of games before I was even old enough to drive. I'd hop on the freaking bus and go by myself many times. Nate Archibald, Otis Birdsong, Scott Wedmann, Sam Lacy... these were my fucking heroes.

Not to mention I got to see some legendary players like Dr. J and George Gervin. I was at the game when Daryl "chocolate thunder" Dawkins shattered the backboard. First time that had ever happened.

Anyways, I was trolling to the extent that I enjoy reading your patented rants. You certainly didn't disappoint.

Props to Rumps, Fu and now DF for also priming the pump. Good stuff.

[Dinsdale]

Just gonna chime in on a couple things because I am that bored.

Takes?

From someone who obviously actually follows the NBA with some degree of passion... in an NBA thread, in an NBA forum?

That's just crazy talk.

Act like you've been here before Oden.

The big problem with that...

He hasn't.

And when he throws down some nasty, he gets pumped... you know, what with millions of people across the country starting threads like this, putting him under overwhelming scrutiny.

BTW, I think that corn-fed mule Przybilla should be starting over Oden. I don't think they'd miss a beat.

As you probably know, the Vanilla Gorilla started for much of the season, and the starting unit is better with Pryz (who is still the best center on the Blazers' roster). But... as bad as the starting unit's defense is (yeah, I said it... the transition D being feeble to the point of funny), there's less "liabilities" than the second unit. Makes sense to put the best defensive player on the team off the bench, to shore up the bad bench D.

Pryz has said he doesn't care, and likes starting because he doesn't have to worry about getting in foul trouble as much, and likes the bench because he can tailor his defensive style (translation -- how badly he thugs it up out there... and he is one of the premiere thugs at present -- him and KMart mixing it up last night was a hackfest) to Oden's foul situation. With his experience, he's become very good at letting things go and keeping his hands/body to himself if there's foul trouble at the 5, and will put the Fear of God into "lane guests" if the foul situation is favorable.

In regards to Durant. The first 12 games of the season, his defense was non-existent. Being 6-10 and trying to keep up with shooting guards can be pretty difficult. Once he made the move to small forward after the coaching change, believe it or not, his defense improved.

His game's improved with the coaching/position change, for sure.

His defense has gone from "BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!" to merely "really bad."

Zach Randolph did go off, but it wasn't against Durant. Jeff Green was the culprit in that game.

I didn't see it, sounds like you did.

They had Green on the Black Hole (Kevin Willis and Kevin Durant called, and they told me to tell you that you don't pass enough, Zach)?

That seems like an awfully big load for Green. He stands about as much chance against Zach as Qyntel Wood's pitbulls did fighting against Zach's.


Speaking of -- Zach Hole will get you 30 on the offensive end... and give up 35 on defense. He and Amare seem to be locked in a battle the last few years to see who can be considered THE worst defensive player in the NBA -- although in fairness, Amardouche has improved ever so slightly this year... he's in position about 1% of the time, which is up from his consistant 0% over the course of his career (another dude who doesn't give a FUCK about winning, and just wants his stats... sup LeBron)...

Which makes the unholy union of Zach and Camby (two less than great characters, like the Slippers care) quite interesting. Horrible offensive player teamed with horrible defensive player. Takes two guys, but between them, they make one hell of a center... and the Clips' record seems to be in the process of reflecting that.


Nice to see you around talking hoops, DF. Very few NBA fans left here, and as you can see, the ones that will chat are pretty fucking clueless.

[War Wagon]

Very few NBA fans left here, and as you can see, the ones that will chat are pretty fucking clueless.

Yet there's no doubt I could post you up and score with my awesome jump hook at will.

[Dinsdale]

Puh-leez.

I'll have dunked the ball* twice and headed home with a cheerleader before you even get your laces tied and your gangsta shorts pulled up, WayTooWhitey.



* - Rimchecked into the cheap seats... and at 41, I'm glad I can still graze the iron... no more 6'1" guy getting the big air for the cottonshredding

[Rack Fu]

You can try and argue scoreboard-sematics, but in the end...

Like the 23.3 ppg vs 8.0 ppg
or the 85% FT shooter who gets to the line twice as many times as the guy who is barely better than Shaq at the line
or the dude that shoots over 47% from the 3 pt. line (not comparing to Oden here as Oden isn't an outside shooting threat but Durant's 47% is pretty damn good)
or that Durant actually has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than Oden (since you made a big deal about that)

Oden is an absolutely far superior defensive player to Durant. No question about that. I would take Durant's offensive output over Oden's defensive play (both statistically and what doesn't show up on the stat sheet) any day of the week... as would just about every GM in the NBA. Durant has played so much better since moving to SF as a full-time gig. Your myopic view of things makes you overestimate Oden's net basketball worth. He just isn't that good. He may end up being great one day or he may end up being the next Sam Bowie.

You're absolutely delusional if you think that Oden would still be the #1 pick if they could go back in time knowing what they know now.

[Dinsdale]

You're absolutely delusional if you think that Oden would still be the #1 pick if they could go back in time knowing what they know now.

Just as anyone who thinks Durant would go ahead of Horford is delusional.

[War Wagon]

The premise of the thread was Durant vs. Oden.

The fact you bring Horford into the discussion shows grasping at straws.

Oden's a nice kid, has some good commercials. That girly voice makes him seem non-threatening, as most NBA post players have long since figured out.

[Dinsdale]

Yes, WW. It was.

If you'll remember, it's an extension of the "Oden or Durant" debate of a year and a half ago (how time flies, eh?).

The point being, things sure look different now.

Before Oden and Durant made their meteoric rise their freshman years, at the beginning of that season, Horford seemed like he would be the no-brainer #1. Oden and Durant had changed that by the end of the season (although the tourney results should have clued some GMs in).

Point being -- as of this moment, Godfather is CLEARLY the star of that draft... making the fever-pitched "Honk once for Oden, twice for Durant" thing seem a little overhyped.

Frankly, Oden is climbing the slow learning curve of an NBA center, and Durant looks pretty darn good while failing to accomplish shit, and has made his team worse (that nasty "scoreboard" thing coming into play). Stats-hogging don't win games... although in KD's defense (hard to type the words "defense" and "Durant" in the same sentence), it sure seems PJ "Killer of young players" Carlissimo wanted him to covet the rock, so it's not completely fair of me to dog him for it.

That coaching change has made a new player out of him, which is cool. Hewas heading down a very bad, bumpy road under PJ (yeah, the same PJ that ran Drexler, Porter, Buck, and Kersey out of town in a couple of short years).

That girly voice makes him seem non-threatening, as most NBA post players have long since figured out.

Uhm... didn't we discuss you actually trying to maybe have a vague clue what you're talking about?

Oden merely standing in the paint has just about every small slashing wing changing their mind at the last second about going to the hole... which is a thing of beauty to watch, and you can't look it up in the stats column... but trust me, it's a very regular occurance. That and his dishing out punishment on boxouts is his greatest contribution.


But Greggy has much work to do, much to learn. But his positional/team defense is coming along quite well, and his not-quite-vast array of offensive moves is definitely improving... since it has nowhere to go but up at present. Very æffective under the basket, needs some sort of "signature moves" or something from 8+, since he's unreliable currently from that range. But he has improved slightly in that area over the last month.


But to laugh your point out of the park... opposing players are quite afraid of Oden in the paint, thank you very much. And very few players not named Shaq have decided to test him and not come out on the losing end.


Let's not forget -- the man is being coached by Maurice Lucas... sissies need not apply to play the bigs for the Blazers. Luke will slap the sissy right the fuck out of them.

[Dinsdale]

BTW-

Durant actually has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than Oden (since you made a big deal about that)

I made a big deal about that, eh?


You mean when I said:

You expect low asst/TO ratios from low post players... but from a wing? That's an atrocious freaking stat.

So... you actually passed a government worker's aptitude test?

Did your wife take it for you? Send in a ringer?



Oden having a low asst/TO makes wing-playing Durant's horrific performance here any less atrocious... how exactly?



Although Oden has miles and miles to go in learning passing from the double in the post. If Sir Charles loses his Inside The NBA gig (which it sounds like the lot of them might, what with the yanking of the sponsorships), I'll bet the Zers could find him a gig coaching Greggy on the finer points on the timing and footwork... since Chuckles was one of the best... and Hakeem is busy helping someone else with those things.


But for Durant to have the ball 90 freaking percent of the time and be putting up those kinds of distributing/taking care of the ball stats is inexcusabe... OK, the word "inexcusabe" is a little strong -- if confronted on it, he could say "but PJ was my coach," and I'd totally give him a pass on it, espacially in light of his recent improvents in the new system.

[Rack Fu]

Nice job by Oden so far this past week:

6 ppg
2.3 rpg
5.3 fouls per game

Averaging almost as many fouls as points. I'm sure he made it up on the defensive end, right? Especially the game he managed to only last 8 minutes in. Granted, the Blazers went 2-1 in those three games in spite of Oden being completely worthless. They're doing well in spite of Oden and not because of him.

Durant averaged 26 ppg, 6.3 rpg and only a foul a game. He also played nearly every minute of every game while Oden spent 2/3 of the time riding pine. Yes, OKC only went 1-2 in the same stretch which validates Oden being the better pick. OKC just flat out sucks and they would be far worse without Durant.

Keep looking through those rose colored glasses.

[War Wagon]

Don't confuse Dins with stats. As we all know, numbers lie and since Oden plays for a good team and Durant for a bad team, Oden is clearly the better player with greater upside.

Besides, he's got all the intangibles, like... like he's an intimdating presence in the paint and all his fouls are good fouls. Who cares if he only plays 8 minutes a game? Clearly, that's all that was needed to cow the opposing team into submission.

[Rack Fu]

Another banner day at the office with 4 points, 5 rebounds, 0 blocks and 4 fouls. Somewhere, Kwame Brown and Michael Olowakandi are starting to snicker.

[RumpleForeskin]

But Rack Fu, among the benchwarmers nobody waves the white towel above their head better than Oden. He is a number one overall pick that cheerleads better than any other numbe one overall pick.

[Dinsdale]

He's learning.

Will be just fine, thank you.


Although I don't hear you guys saying anything intelligent or heaven forbid objective, like "yeah, he killed himself with foul trouble, but gee, you were right Dins -- he altered an awful lot of shots in a few short minutes, before he killed himself with foul trouble, as per usualm."


You guys kinda KYOA with this shit.



Y'know, if Greggy could get the kind of love from the refs that LaMarcus does, he'd be an All Star.

This was discussed with my Blazerfreak buddies in the last few days, and Reggie Miller alluded to it last night...

I guess I won't complain because he plays for my team, but what's up with LA flagrantly having a handful of jersey on every fucking boxout, and rarely getting whistled for it?

But Oden breathes on someone and he's out of there?

Not only that, but LA extends his off arm and pushes the defender every. Single. Time he posts up low. Never seems to get called.

Sure, there's guys who have been allowed to violate basic rules at will... Shaq committed an offensive foul every time he touched the ball for about a decade.

Brandon Roy palms the ball worse than anyone in the NBA, and ever since he cracked that All Star roster, he's now subject to the "Travelling Rules: Subsection 2 -- All Star gaurds get to take one full extra step to the basket."


Sure, my team has been vitimized by this shit WAY more than they've ever benefitted, but when is Stern going to do something about this shit?


Shaq has committed more fouls by the time the player introductions are over than Oden commits in a whole game... but that ain't the way it shows up on the floor.


I'm not defending Oden's greener-than-green propensity for getting way too handsy, and not having good positioning on D -- because he's quite guilty of those things. I'm just saying the rule book shouldn't revolve around what name is on the back of the jersey.



BTW-I'm fucking pissed off about last night. Christmas belongs to the Blazers, and always has. Even in the down years, the Blazers don't lose on Christmas... ever. That was only the second time it's ever happened in history. The schedules have changed a bit, but the Blazers frequently played the Lakers in LA on Christmas... and I don't believe they ever lost there in all of those matchups.

The one day that we PWN!!! served up a loss? GRRRRRR!!!!!!!



I'm about ready to hire a witch doctor to heal up Martell Webster. Anything that reduces Travis I've-Outlawed-Good-Decision-Making's minutes is a good thing right now. Dude's killing us.

[Rack Fu]

Although I don't hear you guys saying anything intelligent or heaven forbid objective, like "yeah, he killed himself with foul trouble, but gee, you were right Dins -- he altered an awful lot of shots in a few short minutes, before he killed himself with foul trouble, as per usualm."

That's what passes for intelligent? As opposed to stats that basically prove he's more of a liability at this point than a benefit. He's young and he's learning. That's without question. You just need a reality check as to how good he is at the present... and he's not very good. Kevin Durant is a zillion times the player that Oden is right now. I'm baffled at why you don't see what everyone else can see. I'm not saying that Durant doesn't have his issues, especially on the defensive side but he has shown much improvement the last month:

GP FG% FT% 3PTM PTS REB AST ST BLK TO
28 .463 .839 1.3 23.5 5.3 2.0 1.1 0.8 3.0 <------------ Season

14 .464 .819 1.9 24.6 6.4 2.3 1.4 1.1 2.7 <------------ Last Month

Oden is actually getting worse.

I didn't see him alter shit last night. How many times did he fall for Nowitzki's fall away shot? He took that hook, line and sinker each time. I loved Barkley's analysis of Oden's shot blocking "skills" after the game. Pretty dead on.

I also saw a dude that was about 2' shorter than him (Barea) take Oden to the hoop and make him look silly. Yes, Barea's shot didn't drop - which had nothing to do with Oden's D. Oden then allowed either Howard or Kidd to grab the rebound and then hacked the shit out of 'em.

[Dinsdale]

I didn't see him alter shit last night.

Oh.

Maybe you should have watched the game -- there were MULTIPLE examples.

I don't disagree with most of your points -- but telling bald-faced lies to make them pretty much discounts the rest.


And talking with my fellow Blazermaniacs... not one of us would be suprised to see Durant wearing a Pinwheel when his rook contract expires... because we can afford it, and Travis Outlaw needs to go, due to his inability to match his superlative athleticism with any sort of strategic decision-making... which is kind of a sore spot around these parts. But our best option at the 3 is still on the DL for a couple of weeks. Batum (pronounced Bah-Toom) has done an excellent job filling in, though, for a 19yo nobody that we had pegged for the D League.


Rudy Fernandez makes a great 3 on the floor with BRoy, but only if the opposing team doesn't have a low-post 3. Otherwise, it's a matchup problem.

Get well SOON, Martell.

[The Seer]

Your ability to summon passion with a bust of a pick, a team that is going nowhere for the forseeable future, trumpeting your takes as "accurate".....

You post nothing - from a nothing State, for a nothing team, with no future, a distant past, with a nothing 2nd year center, in a weak division.....

Rain in your brain?


Oh, by the way, Merry Xmas and Happy New Year!

[Rack Fu]

I didn't see him alter shit last night.

Oh.

Maybe you should have watched the game -- there were MULTIPLE examples.

I guess fouls count as altered shots. In that case, job well done by Oden.

BTW - Durant had 26 points, 8 reb., 4 asst., 1 turnover and 0 fouls.

[Dinsdale]

Crackin' up over here.


Let's see -- Oden has played less than 30 games, and you guys are calling "bust."

Durant has played a year-and-a-half, and has made his team worse. Sure, there's all kinds of non-Durant factors in play, but check the motherfucking scoreboard -- the guy you guys seem to think is going to usurp MJ's place in history has made his team worse.


But Oden is the "bust."


Uhm, yeah -- you guys might not wanna quit those day jobs to persue your dream as an NBA GM.

[Rack Fu]

How in God's name has Durant made them worse? I guess the Seattle/OKC franchise is just loaded with other guys that can score 20-something points per game, huh? The franchise just flat out sucks. I'm having a real hard time seeing how they'd be better off without Durant. That's just an idiotic statement. I know, show me how their winning percentage is actually worse than it was the previous years. As if that has anything to do with Durant as opposed to just being a shit franchise with bad coaching and some bad moves.

I'm crackin' up over here.

[indyfrisco]

And talking with my fellow Blazermaniacs... not one of us would be suprised to see Durant wearing a Pinwheel when his rook contract expires...

And then and only then will you give him his due props...correct?

[Dinsdale]

And then and only then will you give him his due props...correct?

Huh?


In the unlikely event that scenario comes to fruition...


I'll give him his props when he actually does something.


Give my gimpy old ass 200 touches a game, and I'll drop 20 every night too, what with my 3" verticle these days.


I'm not sure which part of the whole "I'll reserve judgement until he joins a real team" or "he's been put in a position that makes success difficult" you were having trouble with?


If I was OKC (ranks right up there with being AP these days), I'd still trade Durant for Horford without blinking an eye.

Because underweight wing=players with a penchant for jacking 100 shots a game are, frankly, a dime-a-dozen. Should the day come that Durant establishes himself as being better than the others of that ilk, he'll become an extremely valuable player. Until then, Dominique Durant remains a ball hogging swingman, without much emphasis on the "swing" part.


AGAIN -- he's a great talent. Without question. And during that whole '07 draft debate, he was being labeled "the next Jordan"...


uhm... not so much.

[War Wagon]

And during that whole '07 draft debate, he was being labeled "the next Jordan"...

Link?

Don't bother, nobody compared him to Jordan.

We, at least I... I don't remember who the "we" was... just said he'd make a better NBA player than Oden and should be the 1st pick. So far, "we" were right, even though you won't admit that painfully apparent fact.

That's akin to Screwey not admitting that MGMT won't sell any gold records, but you just keep doing what you have to do. I would expect nothing less.

[Dinsdale]

Since you don't actually follow the league we're talking about, I'll help you out...


Oden has played extremely well in his last two games. Yeah, it's only two games... but he was a significant factor in the W in those two games.

If he's a significant factor in the next win, he'll likely tie Durant for "significant contribution to wins" on the season.

[The Seer]

If he's a significant factor in the next win, he'll likely tie Durant for "significant contribution to wins" on the season.

Nice win over beantown.

[Rack Fu]

Let's see where we stand:

Durant:
25.3 ppg (which is good for 6th in the NBA)
6.6 rpg
2.8 apg (assist to turnover ratio almost one now)
42% from 3pt (18th in the league)
86% FT
48% FG
.8 bpg

Oden:
8.6 ppg (124th in the league)
7.0 rpg
.7 apg (assist to turnover ratio twice as bad as Durant's)
64% FT
55% FG
1.02 bpg

Durant plays 17 minutes more per game. Oden averages a foul for about every five minutes on the court. I can definitely see how valuable Oden has been.

[War Wagon]

Fu, you're a sadist...

Rack!

Btw'm, saw where the Thunder easily beat the Blazers last Friday night.

Durant scored 31, Woe-Dins lit it up for 4.

[Rack Fu]

Once the NBA institutes an 8 or 10 fouls per game rule, Oden will play comparable minutes to Durant and his numbers will rise accordingly.

Sin,
Odensdale

[buckeye_in_sc]

I follow the OSU guys and in all fairness to Oden...he missed last year...hurt early this year...so in reality he is just now getting into what you would consider game shape...

he has had some very nice games as of late (in fact last night was another double/double I believe)...so let's not write him off just yet...and also to be fair to my knowledge and again I mostly follow the OSU guys in the NBA (sup DaQuean Cook, Michael Redd, Mike Conley, Othello Hunter)...but Portland doesn;'t need Oden to score 30 a game...they have Roy, Aldridge, etc...right?

SO my guess is if Oden can be a consistent 15-20 point a game scorer with double digit boards and stays out of foul trouble then I would say he is worth it...

again I don't post here much if at all...but I like Oden and hope he has a good career...

[Dinsdale]

in fact last night was another double/double I believe

And 6 blocks.

Pretty much dominated the game... Knicks had no answer at either end.


But don't tell Fu or WW, OK?

For the record -- Durant had a GREAT game against the Zers the other night... at the offensive end. The Blazer wing players spent the entire evening going around him to the basket at will... but damn, Durant can fill the bucket, no doubt about that. Very quick to the hole, and has a very sweet touch putting it in when he gets there... this ain't up for debate. But his defense is still laughably inadequate.

he missed last year...hurt early this year...so in reality he is just now getting into what you would consider game shape

Here is a comprehensive list of NBA players who have come back and performed "up to par" in the season following a return from microfracture surgery:

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-

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But since a guy didn't do it in his rookie year, he's officially a "bust."


But... don't tell Fu and WW... they've got it all figured out.

[War Wagon]

SO my guess is if Oden can be a consistent 15-20 point a game scorer with double digit boards and stays out of foul trouble then I would say he is worth it...

Worth what? The #1 draft pick?

But you be sure to let us know when that starts happening. Or don't. Dins will most assuredly have that covered long before you think to scroll that far down the main page.

again I don't post here much if at all...but I like Oden and hope he has a good career...

I don't have anything against the guy per se. Seems to be a likable fellow. This discussion is just a two year continuation of Dins and myself and others (heatedly) debating back and forth about who would be the better top draft pick, Durant or Oden.

From the numbers Fu posted above, it's a slam dunk. Though Dins may never admit it here, he has to be wishing that his 'Zers had taken Durant instead. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that if they had, they might be making a serious run at the Western Conference Title. This year.