So...

[the_ouskull]

...is it too early to say that I've been right about Vince Young all along, or should we wait until his momma signs up for the board?

I just saw my avatar, then laughed. Then laughed again 'cause I was thinking about what he's up to nowadays. I wish I knew what REAL pressure; the pressure of a big-money contract was like... God, it must be hard to be rich. (I'll answer that question for Vince... No. But it is hard to be rich and dumb, apparently...)

Was it Waylon Jennings who said, "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough?"

the_ouskull

[Van]

Way back when I told Vito VY would be out of the league within three to five seasons. I'm not quite correct yet but we've still got a couple more years to go and he's definitely on the right track so far.

QB in the NFL is no place for a dumb "athlete." You have to have the fundamentals down and you have to at least be "football smart." Merely choosing between running or throwing to wide open receivers may work in college but it bears no relation to the NFL game and VY seems to be no better prepared now to play the pro game than he was two years ago.

[indyfrisco]

As a Titan Fan, I'm just pissed the third pick was blown on Football Jesus. As an Aggie (and the fact the Titans are good enough without the fucker), I find it funny as shit.

[SoCalTrjn]

they have been saying that an openly gay player would not survive in the NFL and since the pics of Young with his "boysthe" have surfaced, he has been pretty much out of the NFL. I dont see too many players admitting to "having his back" since those pics came out

[Van]

You lost me there. What pics?

[SoCalTrjn]

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q ... a=N&tab=wi

[Van]

:chuckle:

That'd be perfect though, if VY were a pirate.

[TheJON]

I said the same thing about Young when he was drafted. He never made NFL throws in college. Being an efficient College QB does not mean you'll do shit in the NFL. The throws are much more difficult.

[SoCalTrjn]

he throws like Uncle Rico

[TheJON]

he throws like Uncle Rico

Better beat him, Schmuck. Isn't that the type of coaching you condone, faggot???

[SoCalTrjn]

I coach the defense for the kids pop warner team, we blitz on every down and if the other team crosses the line of scrimmage on a run play, its jump squats, up-downs, the chair and wind sprints at the next practice

[TheJON]

I coach the defense for the kids pop warner team, we blitz on every down and if the other team crosses the line of scrimmage on a run play, its jump squats, up-downs, the chair and wind sprints at the next practice

I hope you have a crazy parent get fed up with you and beat the living fuck outta you until you're on life support in the hospital.

[M Club]

I coach the defense for the kids pop warner team, we blitz on every down and if the other team crosses the line of scrimmage on a run play, its jump squats, up-downs, the chair and wind sprints at the next practice

I hope you have a crazy parent get fed up with you and beat the living fuck outta you until you're on life support in the hospital.

most ppl troll online for the occasional trout or bass. shmick apparently goes fishing for piranha. jfc, you vacuous wankers. his children have been 10-12 for the last 14 years and he's never coached a game in any sport where his team hasn't won by 40+.

schmick: my hockey team wins by 15 or they clear cut seven acres in the redwoods with their barehands i don't drive them there they run.

board: you fucking waste of a parent bad coach i hope your son breaks a leg you're supposed to coach for the integrity of the game blah blah waaaahhhhhh.

[SoCalTrjn]

I coach the defense for the kids pop warner team, we blitz on every down and if the other team crosses the line of scrimmage on a run play, its jump squats, up-downs, the chair and wind sprints at the next practice

I hope you have a crazy parent get fed up with you and beat the living fuck outta you until you're on life support in the hospital.

Just pick the kids for the team if they have parents who think winning is important, all the parents of my players love me.

most ppl troll online for the occasional trout or bass. shmick apparently goes fishing for piranha. jfc, you vacuous wankers. his children have been 10-12 for the last 14 years and he's never coached a game in any sport where his team hasn't won by 40+.

schmick: my hockey team wins by 15 or they clear cut seven acres in the redwoods with their barehands i don't drive them there they run.

board: you fucking waste of a parent bad coach i hope your son breaks a leg you're supposed to coach for the integrity of the game blah blah waaaahhhhhh.

one turned 11 on Saturday, the other turns 13 in May

[Terry in Crapchester]

I coach the defense for the kids pop warner team, we blitz on every down and if the other team crosses the line of scrimmage on a run play, its jump squats, up-downs, the chair and wind sprints at the next practice

I hope you have a crazy parent get fed up with you and beat the living fuck outta you until you're on life support in the hospital.

Just pick the kids for the team if they have parents who think winning is important, all the parents of my players love me.

most ppl troll online for the occasional trout or bass. shmick apparently goes fishing for piranha. jfc, you vacuous wankers. his children have been 10-12 for the last 14 years and he's never coached a game in any sport where his team hasn't won by 40+.

schmick: my hockey team wins by 15 or they clear cut seven acres in the redwoods with their barehands i don't drive them there they run.

board: you fucking waste of a parent bad coach i hope your son breaks a leg you're supposed to coach for the integrity of the game blah blah waaaahhhhhh.

one turned 11 on Saturday, the other turns 13 in May

In another thread you said they were in 6th and 7th grade. 11-year-old should be in 5th grade -- he's about 6 months older than my son.

[Harvdog]

Way back when I told Vito VY would be out of the league within three to five seasons. I'm not quite correct yet but we've still got a couple more years to go and he's definitely on the right track so far.

QB in the NFL is no place for a dumb "athlete." You have to have the fundamentals down and you have to at least be "football smart." Merely choosing between running or throwing to wide open receivers may work in college but it bears no relation to the NFL game and VY seems to be no better prepared now to play the pro game than he was two years ago.

I am no fan of the Titans. I am a Texans season ticket holder and took a ton of shit from people for wanting to draft Mario Williams. That being said, Vince is not a bust. The NFL is about what have you don for me lately......well, he didn't do shit last year. But let's not forget that he was the NFL Rookie of the year, a Pro Bowler and led his team to the playoffs in 2007.

His biggest problem is that he is surrounded by "yes" men. His whole group tells him he is the man. Dude needs to grow up and put in the time and work it takes to be a pro. Vince is not there yet. He has the ability but needs to prove it again.

The definition of a bust is David Carr. Total asshole, shitty QB and tried to blame the Texans for his lack of intelligence as a QB. That same line that he got "killed" behind was the same line that gave up 23 sacks in 2007. Funny.

[Vito Corleone]

Vince's rookie year he was still touchdown Jesus.
His second year he didn't do bad and he lead the Titans to the playoffs.
His 3rd year he had a mental brain fart and got benched.

Vince needs a Godfather to bitch slap his ass and tell him to be a man. He has the talent, he just needs to step up and lose the posse.

I highly doubt he is going to be the man in Tennessee, too many issues and probably not the right system. He needs good receivers and a solid running game. both were below par in year 2, but the running game did improve with the addition of Chris Johnson. If the Titans can improve their receiver corp and give Vince something to work with in the passing game he might improve as a passer. Looking at his stats in year two with Collins stats last year, they are pretty comparable and Collins had Johnson to work with.

Vince is at a cross roads in his career, I'm not going to say he will revolutionize the position like I once thought he would, but I'm also not ready to say he is done either.

[Van]

People need to realize Tennessee won in spite of VY, not because of him. Tennessee's D and their running game dragged VY into the playoffs.

I'm still not so sure the guy has all this talent people want to give him. He has athletic talent, yes. He's a large guy who can run fast and he's a smooth, effortless runner.

Is that NFL QB talent though? Nope. Based solely on the guy's NFL QB attributes (arm strength, accuracy, touch, quick release, pocket awareness, footwork, the ability to make quick reads, the ability to assimilate a large, complex playbook, etc) I'm not so sure this guy really is an NFL QB level talent.

I know we can't do this but if VY came out of Baylor rather than Texas, where he had that dominating O line, I'm not sure VY even gets drafted. He's certainly not a first rounder or even a first day pick and I have serious doubts as to whether he'd even be drafted as a QB.

[SoCalTrjn]

In another thread you said they were in 6th and 7th grade. 11-year-old should be in 5th grade -- he's about 6 months older than my son.

When he started public school at 7 they stuck him in the 3rd grade based on test scores, I was 11 in 6th grade, didnt turn 18 until after the first semester of finals at USC. His mom and I have discussed home schooling him for a year after 8th grade before he starts High School, holding him back so he will be older, not Jimmy Clausen old but older than I was when I went through High School

[Vito Corleone]

People need to realize Tennessee won in spite of VY, not because of him. Tennessee's D and their running game dragged VY into the playoffs.

I'm still not so sure the guy has all this talent people want to give him. He has athletic talent, yes. He's a large guy who can run fast and he's a smooth, effortless runner.

Is that NFL QB talent though? Nope. Based solely on the guy's NFL QB attributes (arm strength, accuracy, touch, quick release, pocket awareness, footwork, the ability to make quick reads, the ability to assimilate a large, complex playbook, etc) I'm not so sure this guy really is an NFL QB level talent.

I know we can't do this but if VY came out of Baylor rather than Texas, where he had that dominating O line, I'm not sure VY even gets drafted. He's certainly not a first rounder or even a first day pick and I have serious doubts as to whether he'd even be drafted as a QB.

Without Vince, the Titan's have zero running game, he is such a dynamic runner that it helped to freeze linebackers enough to give Lendale some creases. Lendale might get 800 years rushing in 2007 if it weren't for Vince. As for Vince's ability to throw and his QB attributes.
Arm strength = NFL level

Accuracy = Very erratic, I've seen him throw passes that would make Payton Manning proud and I've seen him throw passes that would make a preschooler look bad.

Touch = NFL level he has very good touch and he throws a very catchable ball

Quick release = Pro bowl level his side arm motion is extremely fast he might have the fastest release in the league.

Pocket awareness = erratic, sometimes he will stand in and others he will take off a bit too early, the one thing is that he seldom takes a sack, what he really needs to work on is learning when to give up on a play and just get rid of the ball.

footwork = shit, but he has been working on it, if only his head was on straight last year.

ability to make quick reads - incomplete, I feel strongly that this isn't an ability that you have but rather you must develop through repetition. Every QB needs to develop this, it's not a talent but rather a learned process.

he ability to assimilate a large, complex playbook = Incomplete, at this point not sure since we aren't privy to what he knows or doesn't know. Again, he has the ability he needs to just do it, as far as I know he doesn't have a learning disability.

Again, I think Vince's real problem is that for the first time in his life Vince really has to work at being good at football, he is not used to this and if he is going to succeed he need to humble himself and get rid of that posse. If he can approach the game with the same attitude as a guy like Major Applewhite he will make it, if not he will fade just like David Carr and Akili Smith.

[Laxplayer]

So he'll be 26 when he graduates high school? Kind of like you........
wait, catholic sex with little boys joke coming in 5.......4.........3.........

[Van]

Without Vince, the Titan's have zero running game

Without Vince the Titan's had one of the better running games in football this past season.

Vito, "touch" doesn't just refer to a catchable ball. It refers to being able to take something off of a throw in order to drop it in behind the linebackers and in front of the safeties. It refers to being able to put the proper amount of air under a deep pass. It refers to putting the ball in the hands of a wheel route screen receiver, in stride.

It's an offshot of accuracy. VY does not have NFL level accuracy or touch, in large part because he has poor footwork and throwing fundamentals.

There is no "incomplete" in regards to VY's ability to assimilate a large, complex playbook. He's proven he can't. He's three years in and they still had to dumb down the playbook for the guy. It was one of Norm Chow's biggest frustrations, and a large part of why he's no longer there.

Matty Ryan was handling more by the time the Falcons broke camp in his rookie season than VY can handle today. Mark Sanchez handled more at USC than VY has handled to this day.

VY is also not an "incomplete" when it comes to making quick reads. He's an abominable failure. His TD/INT ratio is gawdawful, in the same offense where Kerry Collins stepped in with effortless efficiency.

Face it, Vito. VY has excelled in those few areas where athleticism is at a premium: running, and arm strength. He's failed miserably in those areas where hard work, intelligence, professionalism and NFL level QB skills are at a premium. No way a three year NFL QB should still be having to get the fundamentals of throwing and basic footwork down, which he still hasn't. No way a three year NFL QB shouldn't have that playbook and all the necessary reads down pat.

The guy is just an athlete, and apparently a lazy one at that. If he doesn't swallow his pride and get to work he'll be in the CFL just as soon as his contract runs out. Even if he does swallow his pride and get to work he may simply not have what it takes to succeed at QB in the NFL. Intelligence and leadership matter far more to an NFL QB's success than a big arm and good wheels.

[Dinsdale]

Without Vince, the Titan's have zero running game

Without Vince the Titan's had one of the better running games in football this past season.

Dude, what are you trying to do here? Confuse him with facts?

I think VY and Vito provide an excellent example of what happens when one of them Texas folks has to think... not their forte.


I mean, what does the fact that the Titans gained more yards in 2008 without VY than they did the year before with him have to do with anything?

LENDALE OWES ALL OF HIS SUCCESS TO VY, and that's the end of it... got it?

[Van]

VY suffers from some of the same things plaguing JaMarcus Russell.

-They both played behind O lines in college which were so dominant that the QBs were afforded all the time in the world to pick and choose whatever in the hell they wanted to do. If they chose to pass the football their receivers were WIDE open. If they chose to hand it off their RBs tended to average well over five yards per carry. If they decided to tuck and run (more VY than JaMarcus) they were guaranteed a first down.

In the NFL none of these three options exist.

The receivers are covered much more closely. Coverages are disguised. Defensive pressure breaks down the pocket much sooner. Second and third read check downs have to be executed in the time a college QB stands back there patting the ball, waiting for his primary receiver to clear away eighteen yeards downfield.

Running backs don't average an easy 5+ YPC. Running games are primarily used to grind clock, to wear down opponents and, most of all, to set up the play action pass.

Tucking and running means running into LBs who are just as fast as you. It also means running into safeties who are just as big as you. Well, okay, not in Russell's case. Nobody has a 270 lb safety.

-They both have huge arms, but very little touch and very little accuracy. Russell has the much bigger arm of the two guys but that guy can't finesse a screen pass or a medium depth fade route to save his life. He also overthrows most deep balls. They're both bulls in a china shop.

-Neither guy is much of a professional. JaMarcus ballooned up to nearly 300 lbs while effectively shitting away his rookie season. He was still over 270 lbs in camp last season. Again, like VY, all the talk was that Oakland had to trim down their already primitive playbook for the benefit of slow learner JaMarcus. This, in spite of the fact that he had his entire rookie season to learn.

-Both guys have suspect footwork and fundamentals. VY's are horrible. Russell's are merely inconsistent. He gets it right sometimes but other times he gets sloppy and his passes end up in the third row, or in Champ Bailey's hands.

Both QBs must be maddening to their owners and GMs. All that salary, all that physical ability...so little professionalism. If these guys had even a fraction of the "want to" of the eleventh round draft pick guys who simply want to snare a roster spot as a special teams/utility player guys like JaMarcus and VY might conceivably earn their paychecks...

[Vito Corleone]

does anyone here have reading comprehension skills?

The year Vince started and led the Titans to the playoffs, were it not for Vince and his ability to scramble the Titans would not have had any running game.

I'm well aware of the Titans running game this past season, it had every bit to do with the fact that Johnson was a total badass, but Johnson was a rookie and wasn't around when Vince lead the Titans to the playoffs. And yes, it was mostly the defense two seasons ago that afforded the offense to suck like it did, but go back this last year and compare Kerry Collins numbers to Vince's numbers two years ago. Pretty similar. Those are facts.

Vince in 2k7 - 238 of 382 for 2546 with 9 Tds and 17 ints QB rating of 71.1
Collins in 2k8 - 242 of 415 for 2676 with 12 Tds and 8 ints QB rating of 80.2

And Collins had the added advantage of Chris Johnson who was the most dynamic player on the Titans offense since Eddie George. The one big difference between Collins and Vince was the interceptions. Of course Vince also added almost 400 yards of rushing as well.

And as far as Vince's passing is concerned, when he gets his footwork down he is a pretty good passer, this has been what the Titan's coaches have been saying since they drafted him. Heimerdinger was working with him last year until Vince had that little melt down, not sure what Vince did after that.

Next year is a make or break season for Vince, either he is going to be a NFL QB or not, like I said, I still don't think it is going to happen with the Titans but we shall see.

[Moby Dick]

[Van]

Bwaaa...

The sad thing is that throwing motion isn't too far from the truth.

[Danimal]

Vince's rookie year he was still touchdown Jesus.
His second year he didn't do bad and he lead the Titans to the playoffs.
His 3rd year he had a mental brain fart and got benched.

Vince needs a Godfather to bitch slap his ass and tell him to be a man. He has the talent, he just needs to step up and lose the posse.

I highly doubt he is going to be the man in Tennessee, too many issues and probably not the right system. He needs good receivers and a solid running game. both were below par in year 2, but the running game did improve with the addition of Chris Johnson. If the Titans can improve their receiver corp and give Vince something to work with in the passing game he might improve as a passer. Looking at his stats in year two with Collins stats last year, they are pretty comparable and Collins had Johnson to work with.

Vince is at a cross roads in his career, I'm not going to say he will revolutionize the position like I once thought he would, but I'm also not ready to say he is done either.

VY is definitely at a crossroads. Dude got benched for a journeyman. He needs to quit listening to his mommy and yes-men then get down to work. I don't think he'll be a HOFer but he could be another Daunte Culpepper, who was a quality qb in his prime.