PSUFAN's thread got me thinking

[Terry in Crapchester]

PSUFAN started this line of thinking and Van ran with it. Not that I'm exactly holding my breath waiting for it to happen in reality, but I think it might be a good conversation piece nonetheless, particularly in the offseason.

Here's the hypothetical: BTPCF abolishes all conferences. Immediately. We now have 120 independents in FBS.

To compensate for the loss of conferences, each team is allowed to select three other teams. Those teams will be on your schedule every year, no matter what. Could be a team currently in your conference (I'm expecting the majority will be), or a team outside your conference. Could be a present rival, a past rival, or a team you'd like your school to have a rivalry with.

Who does your school pick?

Here's what I see ND doing under that scenario:

1. USC
2. Navy
3. Michigan

Conventional wisdom, at least at the ND homerboards, is that ND has one friend, one foe and one rival. That's them, right there.

In fairness, I think the answer to that question might've been different twenty years ago. Back then, I think you have to find a way to keep Miami on ND's schedule in lieu of either Navy or Michigan.

[King Crimson]

Van's account of this, as i recall, was part of a set of polemics against the illicit and "state" power of the NCAA and proposed a kind of Libertarian model of the sport to give everyone self-determination. while i get that and the words are all pretty together in the Romantic rhetoric of the individual vs. coercive state apparatus, it's not only unrealistic and i don't even think it's very desirable. and certainly the old boy club cretins who prop up the BCS on "tradition" and "respect for academic calendars" would piss on this from 8 miles high in the name of as many platitudes as you can dream up to maintain the current status quo cash cow.

OU's are pretty easy, i guess:

Texas, Nebraska, O State. unless there's some quibble from the Big XII only fans who weren't around for OU-NU. even if, i can't think of any obvious replacement for an "every year" opponent. or anything that would approximate a clear 3rd place type from all the teams not named Nebraska.

edit: though it would wicked funny around the state, fans, and media for OU to choose someone other than O State. the crushing blow to the pokes would be hilarity of the 1st order.

[L45B]

1. Michigan (duh)
.
.
.

After that, for Buckeyefan it's a little difficult since we don't really have an OOC beginning-of-the-season rival or a traditional in-state rival. Since they joined the conference, Penn State has been on our schedule every season and as of late this has been one of the marquee games of the year in the B10. So I would probably add the Nittanys as well.

2. Penn State

Over the years, I have also enjoyed OOC home & homes with the likes of Texas, USC, Notre Dame, Washington, NC State and look forward to games with Miami (FL), Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kal and VaTech. As intriguing as those match-ups are, I think a new rivalry with just one of those schools would lose its luster after a few years. Although if I had to pick one out of those, I would choose Texas-- went to all three of those games and thought that both programs have quite a bit in common despite only playing each other in just this decade. I think most other Buckeye fans would probably want Notre Dame as a permanent fixture on the schedule, but realistically (even in this unrealistic hypothetical situation) ND would probably not have USC, Michigan & tOSU on their slate in one season.

So to round out my three, I'll defer to another Big Ten team. Had Barry Alvarez not retired, I would go with Wisconsin since when he was around that game was pretty heated. Plus, I'm convinced that Wisconsin fans hate Ohio State more than Michigan fans do (or at least they express their hatred more openly). But I have a feeling that Wisky might drop off a little in the coming years, so I'll go with a team that's on the rise whose coach is a Tressel descendant.

3. Michigan State

[The Seer]

Arkansas A & M

James Madison

Piedmont


Sincerely,

SEC

[H4ever]

Texas and Nebraska are no-brainers, of course.

Fuck OSU. I'd rather play a team that's good every once in a while. Arkansas or A&M.

Word!

For Nebraska: 1. Oklahoma 2. Colorado 3. K-State (hey you fuckers wanted this as bad as CU did)

I think an annual game with Oklahoma (again) would give us something to model our team after and aspire to play to that level again. Switzer upping the ante (and a couple of bitch-slappings at the hands of Miami and FSU) is what gave every college football fan Nebraska teams circa 1993-1998. An NU-OU annual tilt is good for BTPCF.

[PSUFAN]

1. tOSU...this has all the makings of a great rivalry
2. SC...a game of opposites.
3. Pitt...rival since 1894.

I would love to see those games for PSU every year. Beyond that, spin the wheel...

[SunCoastSooner]

1. Texas, 2. Nebraska, 3. Kansas or Kansas State.

[indyfrisco]

t.u.
OU
LSU

[King Crimson]

Fuck OSU. I'd rather play a team that's good every once in a while. Arkansas or A&M.

i'd bet OSU and ATM are pretty close W-L % over the last decade. and last year and next, OSU was and will be the better team by a bunch, i'd guess. from the born and bred perspective, there's no way OSU wouldn't be one of those teams if it were play out. Fuck 'em, sure, but that's just the way it is.

OSU:

1. OU
2. La-Lafayette
3. N. Texas

though, to be fair, they've stepped up with the UGA series and they played UCLA home-home a few years ago. dodging Tulsa keeps them in the big-time wuss category, however.

[King Crimson]

For Nebraska: 1. Oklahoma 2. Colorado 3. K-State (hey you fuckers wanted this as bad as CU did)

Mizzou fan ain't gonna like that. they've got a hot, veined, purple hard-on for NU 3 inches long. hehe.

[indyfrisco]

i'd bet OSU and ATM are pretty close W-L % over the last decade. and last year and next, OSU was and will be the better team by a bunch, i'd guess. from the born and bred perspective, there's no way OSU wouldn't be one of those teams if it were play out. Fuck 'em, sure, but that's just the way it is.

You are right. A&M is 57-52 and OSU is 58-52 in the last 10 years. However, in that time, A&M is 7-3 vs OSU in the last decade and 17-7 for all time. A&M will be great again. Maybe not for 15-20 years straight again, but we'llbe a better program than OSU in the long run, I believe.

[L45B]

...each team is allowed to select three other teams. Those teams will be on your schedule every year, no matter what...

Who does your school pick?

Question: Would we ever have to leave the state to play one of these three teams?

Sincerely,
The Florida Gators

[King Crimson]

A&M will be great again. Maybe not for 15-20 years straight again, but we'llbe a better program than OSU in the long run, I believe.

yeah, ATM is clearly the superior program long term. while i'm still befuddled by the Sherman hire (and Fran's lack of success) all things being equal, i don't think it will take 15-20 years for ATM to be back in the mix. but, the longer it goes...when the guys you are recruiting don't remember when you were good (OU got right about there in 98-99)...i think then it gets dangerous.

[indyfrisco]

When I said 15-20 years, I was referring to how long the last run we had of good to great teams lasted. I think within 5 years, we'll be back to top 10-15.

[King Crimson]

When I said 15-20 years, I was referring to how long the last run we had of good to great teams lasted. I think within 5 years, we'll be back to top 10-15.

yeah, i misread that. my bad. nice ditch BTW. if you ever come to Boulder, east of town we have a glorious drainage ditch, probably 50 yards wide, that's planted with native grasses and stuff. it's really quite amazing (and very symmetrical).

[Van]

ND
UCLA
LSU

I'd simply love to see USC in Tiger Stadium every other year, and LSU in the Coliseum every other year.

I guess I'd also take Florida or Bama. I jut want USC to have an annual game with someone from the midwest, and that obviously has to be ND, and I want an annual game with a traditional powerhouse from the SEC.

LSU has the coolest environment, and they hate USC the most, so they'd be my first choice.

Make it four teams, and I want OU or Texas. Either one would be fine, or we could rotate em.

I like PSU's idea of an annual game with Penn St, but if we only get three then ND and UCLA are locks, and with ND already representing the Big 10 region I want that third team to be from the SEC.

I'd have PSU represent Northeast Football. They'd be my fifth game, after OU-Texas.

Screw it....

UCLA
Cal
Oregon
BYU
Oklahoma
Texas
ND
Penn St
Boston College
Va Tech
Florida
LSU

Cover the whole fucking country. Take the conference rivals, covering California and the U&L. Throw in BYU, to cover the mountain states. OU represents the plains states. Texas represents the southwest. ND, for the midwest. Penn St, for the north. BC, for the northeastern media markets. Va Tech, for the mid-Atlantic states. LSU, just because that game needs to happen, and Florida, representing the state of Florida.

I'll take that schedule, every year. Line it up, and let's see who's left standing.

[Laxplayer]

Van, I remember many years ago LSU actually did come to the Coliseum to play SC. Mid 80's I think......

[Van]

Yep. USC won in Death Valley, in '79, with one of the greatest college football teams ever assembled, at least in terms of NFL talent. LSU won in the Coliseum, in '84, when both teams were just sorta meh. USC did still manage to win the Rose Bowl that year, but that wasn't one of the better USC teams.

Things are a bit different now, with LSU and USC.

:twisted:

There's just a little bit of a history there now, with some grudges to be settled.

[Laxplayer]

Death Valley was something like 1979 and LA was 1984......

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Michigan
ND
Bama

[King Crimson]

Death Valley was something like 1979 and LA was 1984......

USC played Oklahoma home-home in 81 and 82. again, both teams were meh but USC was out playing people in that era, too.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I think most other Buckeye fans would probably want Notre Dame as a permanent fixture on the schedule, but realistically (even in this unrealistic hypothetical situation) ND would probably not have USC, Michigan & tOSU on their slate in one season.

I think you hit on one of the big problems with this scenario, even beyond it being unrealistic.

Several programs would be in great demand among prospective opponents, and I know ND would. If you get three choices, and those teams you choose have to be on your schedule, at least seven of the eight regulars currently on ND's schedule are pretty much locks to choose ND. Those are:

BC
Michigan
Michigan State
Navy
Pitt
Purdue
USC

And Stanford is a decent possibility as well.

In addition, there are many schools not regularly on ND's schedule at the present who might put ND on their dream list. In no particular order of likelihood:

Air Force: Had a more or less annual rivalry with ND from '72 to '96. ND could be the third choice after Army and Navy, unless there's a conference rival they really want to keep (Colorado State, Utah or BYU would be the best bet).

Army: Again, no logical choices beyond Navy and Air Force. They'd probably be a good bet to choose ND based on the history associated with this rivalry.

Cincinnati: No rivalry with ND to speak of, but it's not a stretch to figure that a potentially up-and-coming program in a geographically adjacent state might want a shot at ND, particularly since the Cincinnati area has something of a history of a feeder for students and athletes for ND. No logical choices here beyond Louisville and tOSU.

Georgia Tech: Formerly an annual rivalry with ND, although that was concentrated almost exclusively in their relatively brief period as an independent. No obvious choices for them beyond Georgia.

Indiana: Another former annual rivalry, and instate. No automatic choices beyond Purdue, although it's possible they'd select Michigan and tOSU ahead of ND based on the history of the Big Ten.

Miami (FL): Although a short-lived rivalry with ND, back in the day this was at least arguably the fiercest rivalry in BTPCF. They've wanted back on ND's schedule for awhile. After Florida State and Florida, the only other possible consideration for the third slot probably would be Virginia Tech, based on a (relatively) long-standing conference rivalry. But on balance, I think Miami would prefer ND over VaTech.

Northwestern: Similar school to ND in terms of enrollment and academic ranking, and both have significant ties to the Chicago area. No automatic choices beyond Illinois, although Wisconsin is a possibility, as are Michigan and tOSU, again due to Big Ten history.

Ohio State: Michigan and Penn State are the two obvious no-brainers here. As for a third choice, as you mentioned, I think ND is what the majority of the fanbase would want.

Penn State: Again, Pitt and Ohio State are two obvious no-brainers. The third choice becomes a little less clear. West Virginia, Syracuse (based on history), and Michigan State all would have to be considered, but I have to think ND is as likely as any of them.

I'm not saying that all of these schools would take ND among their top 3, but there's definitely a possibility that ND could make the Top 3 list of more schools than they can fit on a schedule in a year, and an even greater possibility that their schedule is filled to the max with teams wanting to play them. And they're not alone in that regard. Some other schools I can see having a full, or nearly full schedule:

USC: I think every team in the Pac-10 would have them on their top 3 list.
Ohio State: In Ohio, among BTPCF teams you have tOSU, Cincinnati and 6 schools from the MAC. Ya think tOSU will be in just a little demand?
Oklahoma: A decent possibility that every team from the Big XII would have them on their wishlist.
Texas: I don't think the entire Big XII will put them on their wishlist, but there are 10 BTPCF programs in the State of Texas, and Texas figures to be in high demand among them.
Florida: Similar to Texas although fewer BTPCF teams in Florida (7). Plus, they've been the kingpins of the Meatgrinder of late.

[L45B]

Something interesting I dug up on the homer boards regarding USC. Outside of Notre Dame, the most common OOC opponent for the Trojans, historically, has been Ohio State. And for Ohio State, USC comes in second behind Pitt. Obviously, a lot of these games were for the Rose Bowl but still-- would definitely be cool to schedule some more games between tOSU and USC in the regular season.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Definitely some interesting choices here.

The next time Alabama tangles with Michigan State will be the first.

Van has LSU on his wishlist, despite only two games all-time with LSU. A little unfinished business, perhaps. But not exactly what I'd call a storied history there.

Penn State-USC has matched up nine times all-time, so by comparison, that is a storied rivalry. But five of those times have been either in a bowl game or Kickoff Classic, so not part of the regular season schedule.

And then Van had to go and get greedy and pick out an entire schedule.

Of course, the reality of such a situation, if it ever came to pass (not that it would) is that for many programs, there are plenty of schools out there who are more interested in playing you than you are in playing them. USC is definitely in that category.

As I mentioned, every Pac-10 team has them on their wishlist, if the wishlist is three schools long. Then you have ND. That makes ten. And in addition to being the kingpin of the Pac-10, USC also is the kingpin of the State of California, meaning that Fresno State, San Diego State and San Jose State all would have USC on their wishlist, in all likelihood.

You're already up to 13 teams. And then there's the third team from USC's wishlist, which gives you 14. No wiggle room left to add anyone else. And for that matter, not even enough room on the schedule to play everyone every year.

If you cut it down from three teams to two for your wishlist, that helps a bit. If Dins is to be believed, Washington and Oregon have enough of a rivalry that each would include the other as well as their respective in-state rivals, leaving USC off their wishlist. So you're down to seven Pac-10 teams. ND is eight. Of the remaining Cali schools, perhaps Fresno State keeps Boise State and Hawai'i ahead of USC, so that leaves you with ten. Two free dates left for the schedule.

I'm sure you'll hate that, Van. But if it's any consolation, you're not alone in that regard. Moreover, I don't think there'd be any great clamor from schools wishing to fill the schedules of Cal or Iowa. Would you rather be one of them?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I think most of us cheated, Terry, and chose to follow our own criteria. No, the Bama pick wouldn't make sense under your scenario, but I chose them because I'd love to have an annual game with a traditional power from the SEC.

If I'm playing by your rules I'd probably have to sub Bama for Ohio St, then Penn St.

[MuchoBulls]

Since we're a young program and haven't yet established the rivalries that you guys are accustomed to with your programs, my 3 picks would be easy:

UF
FSU
Miami


Realistically, I can see a couple of Big East teams who we've played some already significant games with that could develop into rivalries that I'd like to see every season:

WVU
Louisville (history with them dating back to the Metro conference)
Miami (We have already played once, 5 more games on the schedule and discussions to continue playing after the current games are completed)

[Terry in Crapchester]

I think most of us cheated, Terry, and chose to follow our own criteria.

Which was part of the reason why I gave everyone three picks instead of two. Most teams have two no-brainers to keep on their schedule, but it starts to get a little dicey once you get to #3.

[MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan]

Yeah, unl and CSU are no-brainers, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a definitive third. Speaking purely as a fan, I'd probably pick OU, simply because I'm an old-school Big 8 guy. It was never a huge rivalry historically and I imagine the overall record is pretty lopsided in OU's favor, but c'mon... Am I really gonna pick ISU, MU or a Kansas school? I'd still like to schedule home/homes with those teams on a pretty frequent basis, but OU and unl were far and away the class of that conference.

The smart call from a recruiting standpoint, however, would be to go with a team from one of CU's two big out-of-state recruiting hotspots: Texas and SoCal. So UT or USC would be the top choices there, with aTm and UCLA as the respective second choices.

I guess, when it comes down to it, I'd have to pick USC. It's a trendy choice, but if this is just pure fantasy, it'd be foolish not to pick them. They're one of the all-time greatest CFB teams and it'd give the Buffs a game in LA every other year - a huge recruiting boon. I also like the idea of starting a rivalry with a Pac 10 school, since CU has flirted with bolting the Big 8/XII for the Pac over the years.

[Left Seater]

Houston (Duh)

Next two are difficult cause they wouldn't likely put us on their list.

Texas (Would have to hope they put us on with OU and ATM)

SMU