Who would you hire?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:44 pm

This winter programs around the country will be looking to replace their head coach because they failed to do their job in an acceptable manner. Most everyone here is a fan of a program that can compete for a national championship, so assume that your program is making a hire to compete for NC's.

Prospective coaches basically come from 4 lists:

Proven Head Coach at a mid major
Assistant ready to take over his own program
NFL coach (assistant or head)
BCS to BCS team

From the first group, you have the Urban Meyer types. But for every Urban Meyer, there is a Dirk Koetter. Will this guy's recruiting ability be able to make the leap from the small time to the big time? Will he insist on having his staff of small time assistants with limited connections come with him? This year's prime candidate: Brian Kelly, Head Coach of Cincinnati (they're close enough to a Mid-Major).

From the second group, you have the Bob Stoops types. But for every Bob Stoops, you have a Bob Davie. Will this guy be able to handle the step up in responsibility? Can he find quality assistants for the job? Will he be overwhelmed with being the head man? This year's prime candidate: Charlie Strong, DC of Florida.

From the third group, you have the Pete Carrol types. But for every Pete Carrol, there is a Bill Callahan. Will this guy's offense/defense be able to transition to the college game? Can he recruit? Will he bolt back to the NFL? This year's prime candidate: Jon Gruden, former HC at Tampa Bay.

From the fourth group, you have the Nick Saban types. For every Nick Saban, you have a Tyrone Willingham. Will this guy be here for the long haul or is he still looking to move? Will the pressure be too much going from competing for confrence championships every few years to being expected to contend for the NC every year? This year's prime candidate: Hard to say. One may jump up and suprise us (ala Rich Rodriguez) or one of the guys talked about for years may decide to finally bolt (the Jeff Tedford's and Kirk Ferentz's of the world).

The names above are just examples to help describe the four groups. Don't get hung up on names. I'm not implying that Brian Kelly, Charlie Strong, Jeff Tedford or Kirk Ferentz is leaving their current position.

So out of those four, who do you select? Each group represents a different level of difficulty in getting a coach out of said group (example: hiring Charlie Strong to coach at Notre Dame would be much easier than getting Jeff Tedford to consider leaving Cal, etc.)

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:07 pm

it's a good question. in an example that will elicit almost no interest....i trolled long and hard on CU boards in each of their last two men's rev sports hires: football and basketball: for basically either #'s 1 or 2.

They got #1 with Dan Hawkins who is still up in the air to me (there's a lot of really questionable stuff when you watch them play and the stuff about his "Boise Playbook" has turned out to be a total lie--he didn't have much to do with it, it was Peterson)...but another summer and everyone is sky high with optimism. they ought to win 7-8 games with this schedule, no excuse not too. Hawk was, however, the *right* hire at the time. he was the hot name (Brian Kelly of 05-06) and was going to get a top job somewhere and since very few BCS teams were hiring and Hawk is a "west" kind of guy the fit was a good one at CU. whether he was a *good hire* remains to be seen with a lot of pressure this year to win.

all the pat excuses from years past and push it off on Barney ain't gonna fly even among the most homer of CU fans anymore. my troll spent most of the last 3 years bashing the former OC, now that he's gone....we'll see. as usual, there are a lot of promises and "big talk" coming out of the Hawk (who really does love to hear himself talk).

hoops, CU got a combo of 3 and 1. Mid major guy with more NBA experience. very much a work in progress.

for CFB, i'm almost always against the NFL hire.

numbered:
1. Proven Head Coach at a mid major
2. Assistant ready to take over his own program
3. NFL coach (assistant or head)
4. BCS to BCS team

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:55 pm

I hire the best guy for my program.......period.

I'm not saying Urban Meyer is not a good coach, but he'd be considered a mediocre coach if he tried to take over certain programs. He'd never win at Iowa, for example. Anyone can win at Florida. Spare me the Utah crap, it's mid-major and he did NOT win a BCS bowl. He beat an 8-4 Walt Harris team. That's not a BCS Bowl and they beat absolutely NOBODY that year. I am 100% certain in saying that Urban would have absolutely ZERO shot at competing at Notre Dame. As much as Charlie has struggled these last couple of years, they are 100 times better off with him than Meyer. There is hope for a bright future, but no way would there be with Urban. He'd be gone by now.

I like Pete Carroll's system. I think his flaw is a little too much swagger and that has seemed to cost them a game against a team they shouldn't have lost to recently. He has a lot of talent but he does a good job of making sure all of his stars get the ball enough. Players seem to really like him. He runs my kind of football. It would work in any conference at just about any school because he plays physical football, has a balanced attack, and utilizes his athletes well too. He plays Big-10 football with great perimeter athletes and that's why his team is such a mismatch for the Big-10 teams in the Rose Bowl. I don't think any program could go wrong in hiring him.

I still think Bob Stoops is as good as anyone in the college game. To consistently win like he does in the Big-12 South is impressive. He has always surrounded himself with great coaches on his staff and that's what great coaches do. Mike Stoops, Brent Venables, Mark Mangino......etc. He learned from Hayden Fry that you're only as good as your assistants. I know Oklahoma has struggled in the last 5 years or so in BCS Bowls and national title games but sometimes those are the breaks. Plain and simple (outside of the Boise St and W. Virginia BCS Bowls), they've been beat by teams quite a bit better than them. And like I always say, bowl games don't prove a whole lot because they're played so far after the season ends. And everyone seems to forget, Bobby's got a national title.......

Les Myles is so overrated it's not even funny. I would not consider him for head coach of anything that doesn't have a roster full of 5 star's. He's a notch above Ron Zook if you ask me.

One guy that doesn't get enough respect is Mark Richt. 10-11 win seasons year after year. BCS Bowl wins. Great rushing attack. Solid defense. Does a good job developing quarterbacks. Can recruit, can coach, can motivate. Has his team ready to play week after week. I think he's one of the guys that can be successful at just about any program outside of the directional schools (though no one could possibly win there). I would take Richt up against just about any coach in the country.

Tommy Tuberville. While I'm not going to say I would necessarily take this guy over someone like Carrol or Stoops, I think he's been the most underrated coach in the country for a long time. Auburn made a HUGE mistake getting rid of him. To win 9-10 games on a regular basis at a school like Auburn is amazing. It's a good program, but there are many obstacles to overcome at a school like Auburn. You have to compete against other top SEC schools and you've got Alabama in your own state. I don't know if Chizik can match what he did.

Nick Saban. Great coach, no doubt about it. But I question his integrity. Sorry Sam, but I've never been a Saban fan. You basically have to sell your soul to the devil to get this guy. He has no class. Calls out players. I will never forget when he called out his safety for blowing the coverage on Iowa's game winning hail mary over LSU. So fucking classless from a guy that was bolting to the NFL for big bucks after that game. He doesn't stay anywhere long and you have to wonder how big of a cheater he is. If I'm looking for a pure football coach, I would probably choose him over anyone. But if I care about integrity, I would NEVER consider this guy.

Greg Schiano. I think this guy has the passion and the recruiting ability to win at a lot of big programs. Rutgers will never win on a consistent basis. You don't have the support of the alumni or the tradition to compete. I am not sure why he is staying there when there are better options out there for him. If I were turned down by some of the guys above, I would most definitely hire him.

Kirk Ferentz. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY develops players as well as Ferentz and his staff. This is not even debatable. Kirk has his flaws though. He's very loyal to his players and coaches and while that may seem as a positive, at times it actually hurts his team. If you're named starter, he has a hard time pulling you unless you get injured. He's made very few coaching changes in his 10 years at Iowa. He will not get rid of his offensive coordinator even though the guy is terrible. I don't think there's any program in the country that's had the same OC and DC for the past 10 years. His game management is an issue too at times. Sometimes he will have "gut feelings" that don't turn out so well. He is a players coach too. He's tough on his guys but you'll never hear a player say a bad thing about him and I respect that. At a school like Iowa, the most important thing is player development and so that is why Kirk is perfect for this program.

So who would I hire for Iowa? Kirk Ferentz, Bob Stoops (oops!), or Pete Carroll.

What are my priorities in hiring a coach?

1.High integrity
2.Has ties to key areas of recruiting for this program
3.Will bring in quality assistants
4.Has proven an ability to develop players
5.Is not looking at this job as a stepping stone to something bigger

So for me, I would not have a preference in if it's a mid-major coach, BCS coach, NFL coach, or assistant. He would need to meet the above criteria and whoever does that the best would get the job.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:09 pm

JON,

I agree with most of your points. Say what you want about Meyer when he was at Utah, but that was an impressive team. They didn't beat Pitt, they fucking destroyed them and were toying with them for most of the game. He would have beat many BCS conference teams in '04.

I agree with your points about Richt and Tubberville. If Weis were fired now, Richt would be my first call.

But you're missing the overall point. Iowa (or any program) isn't going to get Bob Stoops or Pete Carroll. So assume most of your critera are in place. Where would you start your search?

For the record, I think you are 100% wrong about Meyer. His biggest question about ND was the ability to recruit players to that school. Weis has proven that it can be done, and rather easily. Meyer would flourish at ND given his recruiting accumen, ties to the program, and killer instinct. Meyer would be walking into a talent laden team ready to take the next step.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:33 pm

Meyer, at least not yet, hasn't given anyone any logical reason to believe he can't coach. He had an incredible one season turnaround at BGSU. He took a team that won 2 games the year prior (and their only two wins came against EMU and Kent St, two of the worst teams in D1), and turned it into a 9-3 team the following year, including two wins over major conf schools, and a drubbing of rival Toledo who was top dog in the MAC at that time.

There's simply no way you can pull that off without player development skills.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:17 pm

I agree with mgo. Meyer has been very impressive thus far. JON, Utah played the hand that was dealt them - and they shellacked Pitt that year. He has been successful everywhere he's gone...and he has returned UF to the ranks of the elite. All of the silly bickering aside, I'd take Meyer in a heartbeat.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:00 pm

Jon wrote:I am 100% certain in saying that Urban would have absolutely ZERO shot at competing at Notre Dame. As much as Charlie has struggled these last couple of years, they are 100 times better off with him than Meyer.

I am 100% certain in saying Jon is insane. I was nearly certain already, but that post salted it for me.

Even if it hadn't, this one would have....

NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY develops players as well as Ferentz and his staff.

Have we ever seen a guy who deals in stupid, wildly ignorant absolutes, the way Jon routinely does?

Why, just this morning I read a post of his that said absolutely NO atmosphere at ANY BTPCF venue can match the tailgating scene at...a Kansas City Chiefs game!!

BWAAAAAAHAAAA!!!

Jon, again, STFU. You haven't been everywhere. You haven't seen everything. You need to stop looking at your little world and applying it to everybody else, as if nothing else is out there.

Bars exist in great multitutes, in nearly every college town in America. Many teams rightly consider Iowa an EASY victory. On any given Saturday, many places have better tailgating atmospheres than Arrowhead. Many coaches do a better job of developing talent than Kirk Ferentz, as evidenced by the fact that he's done absolutely nothing, as head coach at Iowa. He inherited a decent program, with a nice little history, and he's advanced it precisely...nill.

Urban Meyer, compared to Charlie freaking Weis??

Yep, you're insane.

Anyway, back on topic, in order of preference, I'd go with:

4: NFL head coach. Lowest success rate, most turnover, worst bang-for-your-buck, by far. There's Pete Carroll, then there's basically every other NFL coach who failed, trying to make that jump to college success.

3: Promote an assistant coach. There's usually a reason he was only an assistant coach. Bare minimum, that assistant coach better have some head coaching experience.

2: Hire the Mid Major "hot coach." Winning at Toledo doesn't really prepare you to win at Ohio St. Recruiting is different, the boosters are different, the expectations are different. Everything is different. It can work, clearly, but all things being equal I'd rather choose...

1: BCS, to BCS. The only caveat here is I don't want a retread. I don't want a mediocre head coach at ASU taking over my program. I also don't want a formerly successful but tired, unmotivated old timer, who will only be there for a couple years, collecting a paycheck. Even though he's a gypsy, give me a Nick Saban, moving from Michigan St to LSU. Give me a Mark Dantonio, right now.
Give me an Urban Meyer. I guarantee you, unless you're USC or Texas, if he takes over your program, you're going to win more than you did before. Stick Urban Meyer at ND, and they're back in the BCS picture, every year, starting from year two. Stick him at Tennessee, and they're damn near Florida, and Florida is damn near Tennessee.

Stick Urban Meyer at UCLA, and USC has something to seriously worry about.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:15 pm

Van wrote:
3: Promote an assistant coach. There's usually a reason he was only an assistant coach. Bare minimum, that assistant coach better have some head coaching experience.

i agree the promote from within is a road with more casualties than Cadillacs but i think Killian's category was an assistant that's ready to take over his own program, example being Mark Mangino going from OU's OC (though Heupel pretty much ran Leach's O from the LOS in 2000 and OU was pretty anemic on O in 2001) to HC at KU or Chizik from UT's DC to HC at ISU.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:16 pm

Van wrote:Anyway, back on topic, in order of preference, I'd go with:

4: NFL head coach. Lowest success rate, most turnover, worst bang-for-your-buck, by far. There's Pete Carroll, then there's basically every other NFL coach who failed, trying to make that jump to college success.

3: Promote an assistant coach. There's usually a reason he was only an assistant coach. Bare minimum, that assistant coach better have some head coaching experience.

2: Hire the Mid Major "hot coach." Winning at Toledo doesn't really prepare you to win at Ohio St. Recruiting is different, the boosters are different, the expectations are different. Everything is different. It can work, clearly, but all things being equal I'd rather choose...

1: BCS, to BCS. The only caveat here is I don't want a retread. I don't want a mediocre head coach at ASU taking over my program. I also don't want a formerly successful but tired, unmotivated old timer, who will only be there for a couple years, collecting a paycheck. Even though he's a gypsy, give me a Nick Saban, moving from Michigan St to LSU. Give me a Mark Dantonio, right now.
Give me an Urban Meyer. I guarantee you, unless you're USC or Texas, if he takes over your program, you're going to win more than you did before. Stick Urban Meyer at ND, and they're back in the BCS picture, every year, starting from year two. Stick him at Tennessee, and they're damn near Florida, and Florida is damn near Tennessee.

Stick Urban Meyer at UCLA, and USC has something to seriously worry about.

This is what I'm talking about, excellent work Van. My only problem is that you are using Urban Meyer. What will get him to leave? More money? UF will open the checkbook and hand him a blank check. It is in the most fertile recruiting ground in the country, and he has zero academic restrictions. He would only leave if they seriously pissed him off or he got bored.

Saban is a carpet bagger, so you could get him. But you are mostly looking at the Mark Dantonion's and Houston Nutt's of the world. The guys who you know will be looking for a step up at some time. Guys who aren't already at destination programs.

Tier 1 schools have the advantage because they know they are likely the final resting spot for big name coaches. Tier 2 schools have to worry about Tier 1 taking their guy. And so it goes down the list.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:29 pm

Killian, except for the rarest of exceptions, I fear that all college jobs are "stepping stone" jobs, for the truly excellent coaches. There are only a handful of true "destination" jobs in college football, and even there the lure of the NFL will always come a' calling, if the guy is successful at those "destination" gigs.

That being the case, it's basically a given that when you land a truly excellent up-and-coming head coach you're more than likely bargaining with the devil; trading your future for the present, and the near-future.

It's similar to the dilemma faced by college hoops coaches, these past few years.

"Do I recruit a 'one-and-done' superstar, for the instant gratification, and the possible trip to the Final Four, knowing that'll he then bolt, immediately, leaving me with having to start all over again? Or, do I pass on that kid, because he'll be too much of a disruption to my program, even knowing my competitors will beat my brains in with him?"

Sure, LSU could've passed on Nick Saban, and Jsc would be rooting for some other SEC team now, if they had.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:32 pm

Proven Head Coach at a mid major
Assistant ready to take over his own program
NFL coach (assistant or head)
BCS to BCS team

Give me the BCS guy, because chances are he's already accomplished the first two.

Meyer, Stoops, etc., are all no brainers, but realistically I'd like to go after a Schiano. He's actually very similar to Mark Dantonio, on and off the field, so if Schiano was brought in, it seems like it'd be a fairly painless transition. Plus I just like his approach to the game, his emphasis on defense, all-around toughness, and a balanced offense. The younger coaches with some experience seem to really be able to recruit, as well. I don't know if it's their fire, or if the players identify with them better...but he's a guy that would fit most, if not all of my criteria.

Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:56 pm

Killian wrote:One may jump up and suprise us (ala Rich Rodriguez) or one of the guys talked about for years may decide to finally bolt (the Jeff Tedford's and Kirk Ferentz's of the world).

Tedford wouldn't leave Cal for ANY job in the country. And why should he with the money he's making and the new facilities that are being built that will rival or even pass Oregon's as the best in the country. Fuskie and Duck fans have been saying since Tedford arrived at Cal that he would leave for one of their schools.

His wife absolutely LOVES the Bay Area... and would probably divorce him if he ever even entertained the idea.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:14 pm

Blueblood wrote:
Killian wrote:One may jump up and suprise us (ala Rich Rodriguez) or one of the guys talked about for years may decide to finally bolt (the Jeff Tedford's and Kirk Ferentz's of the world).

Tedford wouldn't leave Cal for ANY job in the country. And why should he with the money he's making and the new facilities that are being built that will rival or even pass Oregon's as the best in the country. Fuskie and Duck fans have been saying since Tedford arrived at Cal that he would leave for one of their schools.

His wife absolutely LOVES the Bay Area... and would probably divorce him if he ever even entertained the idea.

Killian wrote:The names above are just examples to help describe the four groups. Don't get hung up on names. I'm not implying that Brian Kelly, Charlie Strong, Jeff Tedford or Kirk Ferentz is leaving their current position.

I can see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:21 pm

You left out

IMMENSELY successful 1-AA coach who was hired right into the first at a major university and beat arguably the most talented college team of recent memory for a national title in year 2...

Actually for me the BCS to BCS would be my highest priority...espeically if said BCS coach has won a BCS bowl, etc...
Assistant would be #2 if he is a quality assistant
Mid Major #3
Ex NFL unless your name is Bellecheck would be last...I don't want Al Groh the 2nd coming

dude Tedford would leave cal in a heart beat...he will always be 2nd fiddle to Petey and can't get over the hump in the Pac...if any number of BIGGER name BCS schools came calling he would be gone

Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:40 pm

buckeye_in_sc wrote:dude Tedford would leave cal in a heart beat...he will always be 2nd fiddle to Petey and can't get over the hump in the Pac...if any number of BIGGER name BCS schools came calling he would be gone

You continue to prove your idiocy. Not that it wasn't solidified a long.... time ago.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:49 pm

It is good that you seem to like Kirk Ferentz, because Iowa is not going to be able to hire someone like Les Miles, Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll, or Bob Stoops.

Jsc,

Well I'm not exactly sure what Iowa has to do with this. I don't think your coach is any good, that's my opinion. Does the fact that Iowa is not an elite program somehow make Les Myles a better coach????? I'm confused......

Oh, and Iowa could have had Bob Stoops if they wanted. I know, that sounds fucking ridiculous. But it's actually true. Our AD at the time was a fucking moron. Stoops was ours, we didn't get him. Things ended up working out just perfect for Iowa and Oklahoma, so it's no big deal. Iowa would not want Les Myles. They've already got much better. Give Ferentz a bunch of 4 and 5 stars and he'd win national titles every year in his sleep.

Vag,

You are so fucking clueless about college football. Please watch some fucking games before you make statements about anything football related.

Tell me why I'm insane for suggesting Ferentz is the best in the nation at developing talent???? Give me examples of who is better. Let me guess.........Urban Meyer. I mean, how he develops all those 5 star recruits into All-Americans and sends them onto the NFL is simply stunning. They should build a new wing for him in the college football HOF he's so amazing. Took recruits like Tim Tebow and Percy Harvin, guys no one else wanted, and made them All-Americans! How does he do it!!!????

For the record, except for maybe Pete Carroll, there isn't a guy in college right now that organizations in the NFL have more respect for as a coach than Ferentz and you can call me a homer all you want but it's true. Ask Paul Burmeister of the NFL network. Ask Belichik.

Why, just this morning I read a post of his that said absolutely NO atmosphere at ANY BTPCF venue can match

You can't even get my quotes correct you're so fucking stupid. I said they can't "beat" not "match". Idiot. Get it right.

Jon, again, STFU. You haven't been everywhere. You haven't seen everything. You need to stop looking at your little world and applying it to everybody else, as if nothing else is out there.

Now how in the fuck would you know this, dickface? You don't know me. You haven't got any fucking clue where I've been and what I've seen. Been to 48 of the 50 states. I've been to 17 MLB stadiums, 7 or 8 NFL stadiums, about 20 college stadiums, 5 or 6 NBA arenas, and god knows how many college hoops arenas. I've been everywhere in this country from California to Florida to Iowa to Texas to New Jersey. Only major city I haven't been to is Boston. You don't know me, so shut the fuck up. What I do know is you clearly don't know college football and the odds of you having attended even 1% of the amount of sporting events I have been to is slim and none. So my comments about tailgating is based on my experiences and I've been to enough games where I can make that comment.

Many teams rightly consider Iowa an EASY victory.

No they don't. Nobody does. Again, this statement proves your lack of CFB knowledge. My suggestion, Vag, is to leave this board and come back after you've actually watched a few games. You really do remind me of the USC fans I met down in Florida. Very clueless as to what is going on during the game and football in general.

Urban Meyer, compared to Charlie freaking Weis??

Urban is a better college coach than Charlie. I have absolutely no doubt about that at least at this point in their careers. I just said Charlie was a better fit at Notre Dame. You won't be laughing when Charlie's got them in the Top 10 for most of the next decade. He's a better coach than you think. Oh, I suppose Belichik doesn't know what the fuck he's doing because he hired this bum as his OC and they somehow managed to win 3 Super Bowls with him, right? Isn't that amazing.

JON, Utah played the hand that was dealt them - and they shellacked Pitt that year. He has been successful everywhere he's gone...and he has returned UF to the ranks of the elite. All of the silly bickering aside, I'd take Meyer in a heartbeat.

I would too, PSUFAN........if it's the right program. I don't think he wins at a school like Iowa, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Kansas State, etc.... He's either perfect for a top mid-major or a program where you can just load up on whoever the fuck you want like a Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, or Kirk Ferentz.

Urban Meyer at ND, and they're back in the BCS picture, every year, starting from year two. Stick him at Tennessee, and they're damn near Florida, and Florida is damn near Tennessee.

God damn Vag, you're fucking dumb. Except for the Zook fuckup years Florida is a program that finished in the Top 10 basically all of the previous 15 years so this comment is retarded. Unless you've got Zook as the coach at Florida they'll be consistently competing for SEC and National Titles. It's not hard to win there. It's especially not hard to win there when you get all the breaks. Look at Florida in 2006. They win the national title in a year they damn near went 8-4. It was one of those years, like tOSU in 2002, where every god damn break went their way. Oh, who am I kidding here.......I'm wasting my time. I'm trying to explain something to Vag- a guy that doesn't know a god damn thing about college football.

Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:55 pm

TheJON wrote: Give Ferentz a bunch of 4 and 5 stars and he'd win national titles every year in his sleep.

Ok, that made me laugh.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:59 pm

Blueblood wrote:
TheJON wrote: Give Ferentz a bunch of 4 and 5 stars and he'd win national titles every year in his sleep.

Ok, that made me laugh.

Do you want to start comparing Ferentz and Tedford resumes????? I didn't think so.......now go away Vag errrrrrr m2

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:33 pm

Okay, I'm through with Jon. He's a complete waste of time, and his juvenile garbage is an embarrassment to this board. At least m2 occasionally adds some humor. Jon brings nothing. He's merely a loud-mouthed, know-nothing punk kid, stuck on stupid.

You people can have him. I won't be responding to him anymore.

Blueblood · Post by **Blueblood** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:52 pm

Van wrote:Okay, I'm through with Jon. He's a complete waste of time, and his juvenile garbage is an embarrassment to this board. At least m2 occasionally adds some humor. Jon brings nothing. He's merely a loud-mouthed, know-nothing punk kid, stuck on stupid.

You people can have him. I won't be responding to him anymore.

You have to admit it's kinda funny watching him melt like an 8 year old. You just need to keep in context that his posts are like that of an 8 year old and laugh along with it.

Look for a thread about you soon from "Jon Boy".

The context will probably consist of him looking to hire a friend of a friend who has super-powers and will find out where you live. Of course, all of this will be done magically with a cornstalk being used a wand.

Then he'll want to fly out and try and beat you up or something like that.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:30 am

That's all well and good...on the main board. His brand of juvenile shit is fine for the main board.

Here? I enjoy the fact that this BTPCF board is supposed to be a safe haven from that kind of garbage. He's uglying this place up. I can't do anything about him, but I can control what I do, so I'll just ignore him.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:39 am

Jon, you should back peddle on your Urban Meyer stance. The guy has proven he can coach at any level and in any conference. He's the best coach in the country right now. He would win where ever he goes. There is no proof other wise.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:11 am

Ok, now this is the single most hilarious comment in the history of this board.....

mChild wrote.....

You just need to keep in context that his posts are like that of an 8 year old and laugh along with it.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Okay, now since I've finally got Vag to just shut the fuck up and go away (he can only take getting owned so much), I can get back to talking football......so back to the topic at hand........

Jon, you should back peddle on your Urban Meyer stance. The guy has proven he can coach at any level and in any conference. He's the best coach in the country right now. He would win where ever he goes. There is no proof other wise.

Point taken. Don't get me wrong, I do think he is a good coach. No......great coach. I just don't think he can win anywhere. Let's be honest here, a big part of coaching in college athletics is being at the right program. Does anyone really think Coach K could win anywhere? Let's say Dook didn't hire him but Virginia did. Would our generation even know who the heck he is had he taken a job like that? I highly doubt it. You're right though.......Meyer's won wherever he's been and you can't argue that. But Urban is a risk taker who runs a system that requires great athletes or to be at a mid-major program for it to work. You can't win with his system in a major college without top-notch athletes. There's no way. But Iowa can't get those guys at least not enough of them. How could you win with his system at Iowa? You have to beat teams by out physicalling them at Iowa. And you've got to develop players with the best of them. Now, you would probably argue that Meyer would do a better job than Ferentz at bringing athletes to Iowa and you would be correct but he still would not get enough. This is why I would take Ferentz, Stoops, Carroll and those type of coaches over Urban at my school. I think that they'd have a better shot at success. I do not think making the statement that Meyer is the best coach in the country is crazy, but I do think that there are coaches out there that would have more success at a school like Iowa than Urban Meyer would and I think the guy we've got right now is one of them.

I can also assure you that no NFL team will ever come after him. Ferentz, Carroll, Stoops.........that's certainly not the case. Those guys could be in the NFL if they wanted. They'd be crazy to leave the money and job security they have at their current schools but they could be there if that's indeed what they want to do.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:23 am

Great coaches adapt to their surroundings. When Meyer took over UF he had Chris Leak and didn't run as much option. Now that Tebow has developed more as a passer, he has him run less. Meyer could get athletes to ru his system at Iowa, and he would be very successful. He's one of, if not the top recruiter in the country because he works his ass off. He will do that anywhere.

Meyer wants no part of the NFL. But the NFL is coming to him to learn parts of his offense, including Bill Belechick.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:35 pm

My order of preference, in general:

1. BCS to BCS. This will be the closest match, in terms of previous job experience, to what your school is looking for in a new head coach. A few caveats, however. In particular, if you're getting a Nick Saban-type, you have to expect that he's a huge flight risk. If you have him longer than three, maybe four, years, chances are he's already on borrowed time. OTOH, you could wind up landing a Dantonio, Kelly or Leach, and they could be there awhile if they view it as a significant step up from their old job.

2. Mid-major to BCS. The guys who do well in this setting are usually the next best candidate for a BCS job.

3. Assistant. Often, the difference between an assistant and a mid-major head coach is experience. Often, the mid-major head coach already has been in the capacity as a BCS assistant, that's how he got his chance to move up.

4. NFL head coach. There's a significant difference between coaching in the NFL and coaching in college, and it goes well beyond recruiting. In college, you have practice time limited by the NCAA, concerns over academics (although the manner in which academics are treated admittedly varies greatly from one school to the next), not to mention typical college student issues such as girlfriend troubles, homesickness among the freshmen, etc. A college coach has to wear a number of different hats in dealing with these kids, and often, an ex-pro coach might not be inclined to do so, particularly one who's been away from the college game for awhile.

However, with respect to the team I root for, I would switch 3 and 4, only because prior head coaching experience is that critical for the ND job. Three of the last five head coaches at ND have had no prior head coaching experience above the high school level. Those three coaches include two universally regarded as failures, and a third as to whom, to put it very charitably, the jury is still out.

Of course, this is just a general ranking. The specific coach you're considering always has to be a factor.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:41 pm

I know that Sam that's why I referenced only since when Spurrier was there. Anyone except Zook and maybe a Tim Brewster could win and win big at Florida now that Spurrier built that program up so high. It doesn't make you a good coach to win there especially when you got as lucky as he did the first championship year. Sam, you're an SECOND guy. Would you agree with me that 2006 Florida was lucky as hell? The funny thing is the one game they lost that year- Auburn - I recall them getting royally fucked by the refs. So I will give them that win but they probably should have lost 4-5 other games had breaks not gone their way so much. Didn't LSU fumble in the red zone about 4 times? Kinda like Oklahoma in the title game last year. I also recall an epic chokejob by Tennessee and South Carolina and I'm thinking there was another one too. And that doesn't even include the fact that Ohio State came unprepared for them. I don't give a fuck what the score was in that game- play it within a couple weeks after the season and OSU wins by 30. I saw both teams in person and there's no way that Florida squad was even close to Ohio State.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:52 pm

I know Sam. We should start a JON list. The "I don't care what you say" list. You know, "I don't care what you say the result was, it was actually this:"

Let's start it here:

1. Utah did not win a BCS game under Meyer
2. UF did not beat OSU for the NC
3. UF did not beat LSU in '06
4. UF did not beat OU for the NC

Feel free to add at will.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:43 am

I saw both teams in person and there's no way that Florida squad was even close to Ohio State.

*blink*

*blink*

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:33 am

1. Utah did not win a BCS game under Meyer
2. UF did not beat OSU for the NC
3. UF did not beat LSU in '06
4. UF did not beat OU for the NC

I did not say ANY of that. Now you guys are just making up what I'm saying.

I just said they were LUCKY to do those things. If the ball bounces the other way, Urban is on the chopping block after losing to Michigan in the CapOne Bowl 2 years ago. Period, plain and simple. Oh sure, he would have redeemed himself by beating OU in the BCS Title game last year but my point is he got a lot of breaks to win his first national title.

OSU was a better team than Florida......period. Fuck the game result. It was played 2 MONTHS after OSU's last game. He outcoached Tressel.......no doubt. Florida's speed was not the problem. That's a load of crap. OSU's got all kinds of guys from that squad that were drafted high in the NFL at virtually every skill position so to sit there and say Florida was just faster is plain wrong. Florida came to play. OSU came EXPECTING TO WIN. Florida punched them in the mouth and they were not prepared to fight back because they weren't ready to play. They spent the better part of 2 months being told they've got the game in the bag, winning all kinds of awards, and hearing the nation jerk off to how awesome they are. Florida, on the other hand, won no awards and was told they've got no shot. So they got to hear all about how great OSU was and Meyer played the underdog card to perfection.

I have been on record as saying bowl games prove very little. Even the championship game sometimes. In fairness to Urban, a lot of college football is all about luck. That's why the NFL is better. You cannot argue this point. You need to be lucky enough to be ranked high enough to play for a title and if you lose a game during the season you need the breaks to fall your way to even be given a shot to play for a national title. And twice for Florida it has broken their way.

Remember, Florida did not win either title without it being disputed. Boise State and Utah would probably agree with me. And before you go and say "well, if you think those teams could have beaten Florida you're nuts" then I must remind you that is exactly what everyone said before they played in their BCS games.

Meyer's done a great job at Florida, I am in no way trying to say he hasn't. But you cannot discredit my argument that he has been a very lucky coach. Breaks have gone in their favor in quite a few games and the breaks have gone their way to allow them to play for a national title both times. Hell the Outback Bowl in 2006 against Iowa was a lucky win for him because the refs won it for them (and if you don't believe me I can link you to a YouTube video proving it). And no, he did not win a BCS Bowl at Utah. I refuse to acknowledge a win over a shitty Pittsburgh team as a win in a BCS Bowl. You can call it a BCS Bowl win, but in my opinion if you call it a BCS Bowl win you are basically saying that every BCS Bowl is meaningless and a waste of time.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:20 am

TheJON wrote:
1. Utah did not win a BCS game under Meyer
2. UF did not beat OSU for the NC
3. UF did not beat LSU in '06
4. UF did not beat OU for the NC
I did not say ANY of that. Now you guys are just making up what I'm saying.

Wait for it, wait for it...

(Same post)

TheJON wrote:And no, he did not win a BCS Bowl at Utah. I refuse to acknowledge a win over a shitty Pittsburgh team as a win in a BCS Bowl. You can call it a BCS Bowl win, but in my opinion if you call it a BCS Bowl win you are basically saying that every BCS Bowl is meaningless and a waste of time.

Game, set, KYOA.

Oh, and just to let everyone know, ND has not lost a game in 20 years. Fuck the results, I know they were better.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:07 am

Hey 0-9, how can you so easily convince yourself of things that didn't actually happen? OSU didn't get to play UF earlier. They got to play them once, and got curb stomped. That game gave absolutely no indication that OSU was a better team in any way whatsoever, and obviously not better by 30 points

. The fact you saw both teams in person, in separate games, means nothing. That doesn't logically apply to anything. That argument wasn't effective when you were 16 years old, throwing down on AIM cfb chat -- what makes you think it's going to work here?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:56 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:God knows, Alabama looked horrible against Utah last year...in a meaningless bowl game.

Why was it meaningless; because you got destroyed?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:23 pm

I think he was playing off of JON's post.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:44 pm

Please Jon have a big can of STFU...

OSU did not match up well with UF...a fact that everyone faced after it was all said and done...yeah so OSU had the skill to match...big fucking deal...they certianly didn't have the creativity or balls to match Urban and his game plan...UF took the first shot from OSU the Ginn kickoff return and responded...then when the fucking midget got his head out of his ass and actually started ramming the rock down Florida's piehole then it looked ok...24-14...we hold UF...get pinned inside our own 30 ish yard line and fucking midget goes for it on 4th and 1 with a WHOLE 2nd half yet...we don't get it and UF tacks on 10 more points before half...ball game fucking over...OSU's OL was out classed when the sweater vested midget refused to go double TE's and just ram the rock up FLORIDA's ass...our OL looked so slow and lumbering it wasn't even funny...

Against LSU I was there...yeah OSU jumps out to a 10-0 lead...but again stupid fucking penalities and a FLAT OUT REFUSAL by the fucking midget to RUN THE FUCKING BALL...Beanie was having a TERRIFIC game throughout the 1st half...but we get down again with the WHOLE 2nd half yet to play and the fucker panics...

yeah they finally showed some fire and guts against Texas...I was at the USC game last year...that team was fucking beat from the moment they walked out of the tunnel...

Is tressel a great coach...sure...would I trade him...not right now...but I am on record saying if he doesn't get a BCS win, NCCG Win or a BIG BOWL win against an SEC team in the next 3-4 years with the RECRUITS he has gotten the past couple of years...FUCK him...that's right I said it...I donate some money, am a alum and I demand that they field a team worth a shit...

Rant over

JMak · Post by **JMak** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:18 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:Seeing Ohio State play Illinois or Iowa or Purdue or whoever you saw them play gave absolutely ZERO indication of what they could do against Florida...or anyone else.

Ohio State had speed...at the skill positions. Ted Ginn and others (was Gonzalez the other wideout?) were fast. Where OSU was obliterated was along the front. Their offensive line had bever faced a d-line and LBs as fast as Florida's. There were Gators in the backfield before the ball got back there!

The closest OSU came to seeing a d-front like UF's was that game against Michigan that year. IIRC, Michigan had a very good line and were very good at 2 of the 3 LB positions. And OSU was still able to drop 42 on Michigan.

Now, either UF was simply that much better or Tressel completely failed as a coach to prepare his team for UF. IMO, Tressel failed. OSU got up for that rivalry game against Michigan, a game with #1 versus #2, but walked in with a limp dick against Florida. They looked slow because they were unprepared.

But I could be nuts, too.

JMak · Post by **JMak** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:40 pm

Killian wrote:Proven Head Coach at a mid major
Assistant ready to take over his own program
NFL coach (assistant or head)
BCS to BCS team

4. NFL coach - for reasons already stated

3. BCS-to-BCS - These types of coaches ain't even even the realm of most schools these days, hence, neck-and-neck with NFL coach. I think Van alluded to them earlier, but only the destination schools have a shot at this type of coach. I used to think that Michigan was a destination school, but I've changed my mind on that since Les Miles wouldn't take the Michigan job. ND, USC, Florida, OU, Texas, Bama might be the only ones out there that could attract a BCS coach these days.

2. Assistant - comes down to recruitment philosophy questions provided he was attached to a successful program and demonstrated his coaching bonafides.

1. Prove mid-major coach - has the proven recruitment nuts and bolts and successful head coach. Would be my first choice.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:48 pm

JMak wrote:3. BCS-to-BCS - These types of coaches ain't even even the realm of most schools these days, hence, neck-and-neck with NFL coach. I think Van alluded to them earlier, but only the destination schools have a shot at this type of coach. I used to think that Michigan was a destination school, but I've changed my mind on that since Les Miles wouldn't take the Michigan job. ND, USC, Florida, OU, Texas, Bama might be the only ones out there that could attract a BCS coach these days.

Dude, Michigan got DickRod, a BCS winning coach in 2005 when he went 11-1 and beat Georgia in the Sugar and in 2007 (kinda) when he went 11-2 and beat the fuckpiss out of Oklahoma in the Fiesta. Granted, he bailed just before the bowl game, but that was his team and he would have done the same thing to OU had he stayed to coach that game.

I know you're trying to be the "non-homer" here, but Michigan is the all time winningest program. It is one of the top 3 destination jobs. Miles didn't bail on LSU because he had just won an NC. Couple that with the fact that the LSU gig is also a destination job in what is most of the time the best conference, and that's why he's still there.

JMak · Post by **JMak** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:52 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Dude, Michigan got DickRod, a BCS winning coach in 2005 when he went 11-1 and beat Georgia in the Sugar and in 2007 (kinda) when he went 11-2 and beat the fuckpiss out of Oklahoma in the Fiesta. Granted, he bailed just before the bowl game, but that was his team and he would have done the same thing to OU had he stayed to coach that game.

I know you're trying to be the "non-homer" here, but Michigan is the all time winningest program. It is one of the top 3 destination jobs. Miles didn't bail on LSU because he had just won an NC. Couple that with the fact that the LSU gig is also a destination job in what is most of the time the best conference, and that's why he's still there.

Well, fuck me, I'm a dummy. Maybe it's still the hangover from last season at Michigan affecting my thinking.

I can go now...

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:42 pm

buckleye_in_sc wrote:I was at the USC game last year...that team was fucking beat from the moment they walked out of the tunnel...

Why? They're the Ohio freaking State Buckeyes. They shouldn't fear anybody, at least not to that extent. What in the hell was going on there?

We saw the same thing happen when Bill Callahan brought Nebraska into the Coliseum. He turtled, completely. He was so afraid of getting blown out, he never even gave his team a chance to compete. That was a Bill Callahan led Nebraska team, however, not a Jim Tressell led Buckeye squad.

Seriously, buckeye, wtf? Since when does OSU enter any game, already beaten in their own minds?

Or, am I simply reading you wrong, and you only mean they got their asses kicked right from the very beginning, but at least mentally they were still Ohio St; i.e., ready to fight, and expecting to win.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:45 pm

Van's Cliffs Notes wrote:You only mean they got their asses kicked right from the very beginning, but at least mentally they were still Ohio St; i.e., ready to fight, and expecting to win?