HoF class of 2009

[War Wagon]

Pretty impressive group.

LB - Derrick Thomas
WR - Bob Hayes
G - Randall McDaniel
DE - Bruce Smith
DB - Rod Woodson
Owner/co-founder of the AFL Ralph Wilson.

I don't normally watch much of the induction ceremony, but I'll be sure to see DT get immortalized tonight. Stupid sad that he won't be there to speak for himself.

RACK all the inductees. Very well deserved, each of them.

[Billy Pilgrim]

When a little more time has passed, Woodson should truly be cemented as the best CB to ever throw on a jersey.

While Sanders certainly deserves to mentioned in the same breath, he couldn't come close to matching Woodson's all-around game.

When fathers across the county pull out the NFL encyclopedia, they'll proudly point to #26 and say, "son ... THIS was a football player."

Truly blessed to have watched him play and inducted in what is an otherwise meh class of players. Like 'em all as deserved entries (save for Hayes), but when one star shines that much brighter, it's tough to make comparisons.

Woodson>>>>McDaniel>Smith>Thomas>>>>Hayes

[poptart]

I agree, BP.

Woodson is the best player there and is superior to Peion.

Not sure if he's be best corner EVAR, but he's definitely on the very short list of those in the discussion.

[Billy Pilgrim]

What a deeply humbling experience watching Ralph Wilson Jr.'s induction. Have to say this is quite possibly Chris Berman's finest hour. Wonderful, heartfelt speech.

[poptart]

Chris Berman's Finest Hour




hahaha

[War Wagon]

What a deeply humbling experience watching Ralph Wilson Jr.'s induction.

Great story from Ralph on how the AFL started. Berman made it sound as if Wilson were the driving force, but listening to the man, he mentioned Lamar Hunt at least a half-dozen times.

Class act.

[War Wagon]

Wow, what a well spoken dude Randle McDaniel is.

It's great to see an O-lineman get honored like this. They never get much attention, except when they suck.

[Paul]

Carl Peterson was a bit overwinded in his speech for Derrick Thomas, but I felt the love and the admiration that the guy who brought DT to KC had for him. MY all-time favorite Chiefs player, it was really cool to see him finally get the recognition he deserved.

[Paul]

Thomas was a completely one-dimensional hack. Too stupid in coverage and too weak against the run. He shouldn't have even got a sniff. The only reason he's in is because he's wormturd now and the voters must have felt sorry for his 47 bastard chirrens.

The rest of the class is very solid.

DT's numbers speak for themselves. He's in now and nobody can change that. Stan Humphries to this day can't eat solid foods and doesn't remember his name half the time thanks to Derrick Thomas. :wink:

[Paul]

DT's numbers speak for themselves.

So does the fact that Marty had to make up some gay 'Falconback' bullshit to cover his glaring weaknesses in every other job responsibility a linebacker has.

Actually that was Gunther Cunningham's deal. Besides, why exactly would they want to send BY FAR their best pass rusher back into coverage.....EVER? Does Shawne Merriman have any business whatsoever fading back into pass coverage?
NOPE.

[KC Scott]

Actually that was Gunther Cunningham's deal. Besides, why exactly would they want to send BY FAR their best pass rusher back into coverage.....EVER? Does Shawne Merriman have any business whatsoever fading back into pass coverage?
NOPE.

OK, who's writing this?

We will find you.

[Paul]

Actually that was Gunther Cunningham's deal. Besides, why exactly would they want to send BY FAR their best pass rusher back into coverage.....EVER? Does Shawne Merriman have any business whatsoever fading back into pass coverage?
NOPE.

OK, who's writing this?

We will find you.

It's certainly not you- you've been fired.

[War Wagon]

Honestly, he wasn't even one-third the player that Merriman is.

Merrirhoid will never sniff the HoF, not even close.

[KC Scott]

Merriman has a pick and 17 passes defended to go along with his sacks.

But that's not what he asked: "Does Shawne Merriman have any business whatsoever fading back into pass coverage?"

Gotta agree with PopinFresh here.

If I'm DC - he has one job and it's disrupt the pocket.
If it's a run - OK - get me some running back.

But I don't drop him into coverage - Just doesn't make sense / even less now with his bum wheel

[Paul]

Besides, why exactly would they want to send BY FAR their best pass rusher back into coverage.....EVER?

Because it's part of his job, you paste eating tard.

Not if he not REQUIRED to drop back into pass coverage- What part of that logic do you CONSISTENTLY fail to comprehend, pal?

Does Shawne Merriman have any business whatsoever fading back into pass coverage?
NOPE.

Wrong again, tubby. The OLBs in a 3-4 defense certainly do have coverage responsibilities. Of course you're an idiot so you aren't expected to understand. Merriman has a pick and 17 passes defended to go along with his sacks. Thomas, being a half-witted ape, was utterly incapable of comprehending the most rudimentary coverages and did not defend a single pass in his entire career. Not one. He was also a cupcake against the run. Honestly, he wasn't even one-third the player that Merriman is.

Sorry, fatboy. There is more to being an outside linebacker than rushing the passer. Derrick Bastard Factory wasn't a complete player at his position. Flawed, one dimensional players do not belong in the Hall. This was a pity fuck.

Have another tub o'

Once again, Derrick Thomas had one job to do and one job only- seek and destroy the QB, and strip the ball while he's at it. That's what he did best. Whether he COULD or COULDN'T cover against the pass isn't up for debate, because he quite simply wasn't asked to. As far as his play against the run, he wassn't a "run-stopper" per se, but he typically had the "run-stopping" talent around him to get the job done.

See, here's the deal mvscal- I've watched EVERY SINGLE GAME that Derrick Thomas ever played for the Kansas City Chiefs. I think....check that, I FUCKING KNOW how DT played his position as much or more than any other diehard Chiefs fan alive, and Merriman couldn't hold DT's fucking JOCK when it comes to changing the outcome of a game. Period. NO pass-rushing LB since DT passed away has measured up to his unique ability to change the momentum of a game or come up with a critical sack and turnover when his team needed it most. And feel perfectly free to leave DT's reproducing prowess out of this discussion- it has no place here.

[Paul]

I guess it's a good thing you aren't a DC then. Kinda hard to disguise your coverage when the offense knows where your rush is coming from every play. Are you seriously trying to suggest that a OLB has "no business" dropping into coverage?

Uh...hello?

I suggested that Derrick Thomas and Shawne Merriman and pure stud pass rushers like those guys have no business dropping back into coverage- it's just not what they do best, therefore why have them do something that they're not near as good at doing?

Coverage, run support and pass rushing aren't mutually exclusive skills. Any NFL starter at that position should be able to do them all at least reasonably well and a legitimate hall of famer should do them all very well.

Thomas can't hold a candle to players like Merriman, Harrison and Vrabel.

Tell ya what Sport....when/IF Merriman, Harrison, and Vrabel get into the HoF than your argument is valid. Until then I'll continue to agree to DISAGREE with you on this topic.

[War Wagon]

Easy does it, Paul.

Here's where you always get bent.

Deep breath...

Nice takes, btw.

[Paul]

Easy does it, Paul.

Here's where you always get bent.

Deep breath...

Nice takes, btw.

No worries, Wags....mvscal and I are having a spirited discussion, that's all. I appreciate his side of it, I just don't agree with it.

No "bending" will happen on this end, I can assure you.

[poptart]

My vision of a Hall of Fame is that it is a place where the very ELITE players who've ever played are enshrined and forever recognized.

I don't think D. Thomas was one the very elite LBs who has ever played and mvscal is prolly right that there was some sympathy push for him in the bid to get in.

I think Thomas is a guy who merits consideration for the Hall, but I would not give him a yes vote.

While he WAS a rare individual player that other teams had to directly gameplan for, and he WAS a fuggen terror at times, he had too many deficiencies as a player to say that he was one of the VERY ELITE LBs to ever play.


Kevin Greene started 176 games and averaged .83 sacks a game.
Derrick Thomas started 157 games and averaged .80 sacks a game.

Greene averaged 3.45 tackles a game.
Thomas averaged 3.80 tackles a game.

Pretty much the same thang there.

K. Greene ain't close to being a HoF playah, and he was, like Thomas, two times first team all-pro.

To his credit, Thomas forced a lot of fumbles.

For that reason, I would say he deserves to be look at for consideration, while Greene is easily passed over.


Thomas got in on sympathy.

Kind of like Paul being let back in to this forum.

[Terry in Crapchester]

When a little more time has passed, Woodson should truly be cemented as the best CB to ever throw on a jersey.

While Sanders certainly deserves to mentioned in the same breath, he couldn't come close to matching Woodson's all-around game.

When fathers across the county pull out the NFL encyclopedia, they'll proudly point to #26 and say, "son ... THIS was a football player."

Truly blessed to have watched him play and inducted in what is an otherwise meh class of players. Like 'em all as deserved entries (save for Hayes), but when one star shines that much brighter, it's tough to make comparisons.

Woodson>>>>McDaniel>Smith>Thomas>>>>Hayes

Disagree on Hayes. He stretched defenses, and by his mere presence on the field forced opposing defenses to gameplan for him. Some have said that bump-and-run coverage was designed specifically to stop him, or at least slow him down.

And Hayes wasn't exactly a Renaldo Nehemiah. Nehemiah was a track man who got signed to play football. Hayes was a legitimate football player, not just a track star.

Yes, his numbers, both for seasons and career, look weak by comparison to more recent WR's. But that's not exactly a fair comparison. Since Hayes retired, there have been any number of rule changes which have had the effect of opening up the passing game. Look at the passing stats of QB's who played in Hayes' era, then compare them to today's QB's. Big difference.

[poptart]

What about Cliff Branch, Terry?

He stretched defenses -- and was a key member of 3 Super Bowl winning teams.


Yea or Nay on Clifford Branch?

[Terry in Crapchester]

Pop, I'd give Branch a thumbs-up as well.

Understand that both Branch and Hayes benefit, at least as to my opinion, from the time in which they played. Both were in/near the prime of their career right about the same time I first started following football. You tend to watch with a less critical eye at that point.

[DallasFanatic]

I have to agree with mv and pop's take on the DT saga. DT was nowhere near the complete LB one would think qualifies as an elite player at that position. He had some nice moves and great games but his weaknesses were glaring, and I think that alone should have kept him out.

Now just to show you twats that I am bipartisan, I don't think Hayes should have entered either. He had pretty good numbers for a few years, but I would expect a bit more production for longer periods of time, than what Hayes contributed. If there was an "Athlete Hall of Fame", Hayes would be a first ballot. For Pro Football, he should have been given strong consideration, but not the OK.

The rest of the class was definitely deserving.

[poptart]

I agree with DF.

Branch and Hayes don't belong.

Both were terrific players, but being a great DECOY doesn't make you elite.

They were more than that, to be sure, but I think you get the point.

[DallasFanatic]

Off topic, I will be seated 10th row behind the Boys bench for the Raiders/Boys game on Thursday. Here's to bringing my 6 month old daughter to her first football game, dressed in her Dallas Cheerleader outfit, seeing a bunch of freakshows. It's never too early to introduce a child to football and freakshows.

[PSUFAN]

Woodson definitely has a solid case. He was tremendous.

[Paul]

Woodson definitely has a solid case. He was tremendous.

No doubt about it.

[War Wagon]

Off topic, I will be seated 10th row behind the Boys bench for the Raiders/Boys game on Thursday. Here's to bringing my 6 month old daughter to her first football game, dressed in her Dallas Cheerleader outfit, seeing a bunch of freakshows. It's never too early to introduce a child to football and freakshows.

Awesome.

And I'll be at the Texans/Chiefs pre-season tilt Saturday nite with my 21 year old daughter and she bought the tickets.

If it's possible, she's an even more passionate fan of my teams (Chiefs, Royals, Mizzou) than I am. Damn, I love that girl.