The Battle

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:13 pm

poptart wrote: God doesn't demand us to be upright and good.

He gave us the Gospel because we are spiritaully captured within satan's hand.
We are powerless.

If God is all-powerful, why doesn't he just kick Satan's ass and remove all doubt from our hearts?

Sounds rather fickle and capricious if you ask me.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:51 am

I think we could all make a fairly long list of "Why doesn't God do such and such" questions.

He did what He did.

About kicking satan's ass, well, Christ came and fully, amazingly, and unwittingly fulfilled all that the prophesied Messiah was to do.
He performed MANY miracles and He resurrected from the dead.

He HAS kicked satan's ass.

To join in, all we need to do is recognize it and believe it.

I think a person seriously needs to question themself as to why they would deny these things.

There is nothing in anyone's life that they will ponder with more significance than, "Hey, is Jesus REALLY the Christ?"

I had previously tried to brush it aside.
Being intellectually honest, it wasn't possible to do so any longer.

Jesus IS the Christ.

We all have freedom to think what we want.

Johnny Bold · Post by **Johnny Bold** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:04 pm

^
Very well put, Poppers.

To the believer no proof is necessary, to the non-believer no proof is possible - Derek Acorah

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:20 pm

Johnny Bold wrote:to the non-believer no proof is possible - Derek Acorah

Total bullshit.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:13 pm

Sam, it's not hard to find evidence of God.
The life, death and resurrection of Jesus, who is Christ, is evidence.

It's a matter of record, as is the behavior of the apostles, and the HIGHLY improbable/impossible way they overturned the world with their message of Life from God.

Nobody here can give you the "proof" you are asking to see.

From the beginning, part of God's "way" is asking for us to have simple faith in Him.

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is spirit.

So the way for you to know if He is is for you to quietly, and with a sincere heart, ask Him if he's really there.

If you REALLY want to know Him and accept the truth that He's there, open your heart to Him and tell Him you'll take Him if He's really there.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:21 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:But I'm clinically sane.

:D

Impossible. You're a Bama fan.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:49 pm

Johnny Bold wrote:^
Very well put, Poppers.

To the believer no proof is necessary, to the non-believer no proof is possible - Derek Acorah

Like I said, if your "god" is so omnipotent, why doesn't he/she/it just "wash" all doubt from your minds.

Problem solved, I would think.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:12 pm

poptart wrote:The life, death and resurrection of Jesus, who is Christ, is evidence.

You are assuming facts not in evidence. In fact, your theory is directly contradictory to all evidence.

Johnny Bold · Post by **Johnny Bold** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:34 am

Martyred wrote:
Johnny Bold wrote:^
Very well put, Poppers.

To the believer no proof is necessary, to the non-believer no proof is possible - Derek Acorah
Like I said, if your "god" is so omnipotent, why doesn't he/she/it just "wash" all doubt from your minds.

Problem solved, I would think.

Free Will Is G-d's Call.

As for the "all doubt from your minds" of which you speak - from my point of view it appears that said doubt is coming from your direction.

mvscal wrote:
poptart wrote:The life, death and resurrection of Jesus, who is Christ, is evidence.
You are assuming facts not in evidence. In fact, your theory is directly contradictory to all evidence.

One of this worlds leading atheists (you would like him) was asked something like this:
"What if you are wrong, and there is a judgment day, and there you are facing G-d, what will you say than"'??
He answered - "I would ask G-d why he didn't show himself sooner"

Cute
Thing is - when faith becomes fact, there will no longer be a need for faith.
As of now, G-d requires Believers to take a leap of faith.
Why so is His call - and what He does to substantiate His existence after that is between Him and his obedient creation.

Unfortunately for a large segment of mankind - The Spirit speaks a language which the godless can never understand.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:14 pm

Johnny Bold wrote: As of now, G-d requires Believers to take a leap of faith.

So what you're really saying is that God gave you a brain and you refuse to use it for rational, logical thought.

Good job.

Johnny Bold · Post by **Johnny Bold** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:41 pm

Johnny Bold wrote:
Bode you fellows for not being to shabby at making up stuff about another to suit your opinion of them.
So far you've almost surpassed Felix in that dept.

mvscal wrote:
Johnny Bold wrote: As of now, G-d requires Believers to take a leap of faith.
So what you're really saying is that God gave you a brain and you refuse to use it for rational, logical thought.
Good job.

And Thumper takes the lead.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:48 pm

poptart wrote:Sam, it's not hard to find evidence of God. It's all spelled out in ~~the multiiply translated, multi-edited 2,000 year old desert scribblings of bronze age goat herders~~ bible

ftfy

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:10 am

Johnny Bold wrote: And Thumper takes the lead.

The term "thumper" would imply you actually own, and wield a Bible.

I'm sure you prefer "feeling" the "spirit" to actual printed text, though. Amirite?

Johnny Bold · Post by **Johnny Bold** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:51 am

^
And what's this - on the inside we have Monkeyred making a play for the lead.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:16 pm

Johnny Bold wrote:^
And what's this - on the inside we have Monkeyred making a play for the lead.

maybe you could enlighten us as to exactly how many edits your "holy" book has gone through
how many "sacred writings" have been excluded from the final product.....jeebus, the editors at Random House have nothing on the council of nicea

doesn't the fact that your "sacred text" has been revised, edited and amended countless times trouble you in the slightest?

Johnny Bold · Post by **Johnny Bold** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:10 am

Felix wrote:
maybe you could enlighten us as to exactly how many edits your "holy" book has gone through
how many "sacred writings" have been excluded from the final product.....jeebus, the editors at Random House have nothing on the council of nicea

doesn't the fact that your "sacred text" has been revised, edited and amended countless times trouble you in the slightest?

Pass, tks
_Poppers alone has already laid down more then enough track to carry the lot of this board plus many others well onto what G-d has in store for our next adventure.
As far as I am concerned - it's time for you supposing spiritually stifling monkey chums to do your own uplifting, if there truly is an ounce of interest in you to do so.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:18 pm

If there really was a God, Notre Dame would have a better football program.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:32 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:If there really was a God, Notre Dame would have a better football program.

BYU does pretty darn well...

HMMMM.....

Kinda makes one wonder, eh?

Hell Director: Hello, newcomers and welcome. Can everybody hear me? Hello?
[taps microphone]
Hell Director: Can everybody... ok. Um, I am the Hell Director. Uh, it looks like we have 8,615 of you newbies today. And for those of you who were little confused: uh, you are dead; and this is Hell. So abbandon all hope and yadda-yadda-yadda. Uh, we are now going to start the orientation PROcess which will last about...
Protestant: Hey, wait a minute. I shouldn't be here, I was a totally strick and devout Protestant. I thought we went to heaven.
Hell Director: Yes, well, I'm afraid you are wrong.
Soldier: I was a practicing Jehovah's Witness.
Hell Director: Uh, you picked the wrong religion as well.
Man from Crowd: Well who was right? Who gets in to Heaven?
Hell Director: I'm afraid it was the MORmons. Yes, the MORmons were the correct answer.
The Damned: Awwww...

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:36 am

mvscal wrote:
poptart wrote:God's Word
Says who?

Says King James, who was trying to control and get more money out of his people.

People following christ as a good guy, I can get.

People following the bible, a book that was written long after JC died and has been tampered with over and over, I do not get.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:37 am

Goober McTuber wrote:If there really was a God, Notre Dame would have a better football program.

Maybe god is punishing them because they are not covering up the child rapes as well as they use to.

This thread makes me think of this song by the drive-by truckers...

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:35 am

T wrote:People following christ as a good guy, I can get.

Unless you stop to realize that if He didn't resurrect and He is not the Christ, He was a deceitful POS who led many people to suffer for His sake.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:34 pm

poptart wrote:Unless you stop to realize that if He didn't resurrect and He is not the Christ, He was a deceitful POS who led many people to suffer for His sake.

He didnt "resurrect". I dont believe in zombies, vampires, or werewolves

Grave robbing was rather common during that time. Moving a body in the middle of the night to hide them from grave robbing was also common.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:38 pm

Sam, curious, and you can answer honestly ... or not.

How much of the Bible have you read?

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:55 pm

poptart wrote: How much of the Bible have you read?

How much of the Koran have you read?

What's your point?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:10 pm

poptart wrote:
T wrote:People following christ as a good guy, I can get.
Unless you stop to realize that if He didn't resurrect and He is not the Christ, He was a deceitful POS who led many people to suffer for His sake.

He isn't the one who created the myth behind the religion created in his name. His apostles did that.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:32 pm

mvscal wrote:
poptart wrote:
T wrote:People following christ as a good guy, I can get.
Unless you stop to realize that if He didn't resurrect and He is not the Christ, He was a deceitful POS who led many people to suffer for His sake.
He isn't the one who created the myth behind the religion created in his name. His apostles did that.

But the bible says so....

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:38 pm

poptart wrote:Sam, curious, and you can answer honestly ... or not.

How much of the Bible have you read?

Ive read it

Has its good parts but mostly a crappy fairy tale that stole ideas and stories from earlier religions.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:29 pm

mvscal wrote:He isn't the one who created the myth behind the religion created in his name. His apostles did that.

Do you think the Words the Bible attributes to Jesus were never said?

Marty, I've read very little of the Koran.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:28 pm

poptart wrote:Do you think the Words the Bible attributes to Jesus were never said?

Not as such, no. I imagine they were cleaned up, edited and repackaged. At best, the basic gist of what he was trying to say came through. We can't really be sure, though. The apostles were trying to sell a product, so it would be extremely naive to suggest that they didn't embellish or even invent much of Jesus' prose.

Sort of like screenwriters trying to adapt a novel for film.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:26 am

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you think He said that?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:39 am

poptart wrote:Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you think He said that?

Nope. In fact, I believe it contradicts his entire ministry and was a post mortem addition by a zealous follower.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:23 am

How do you think it contradicts His ministry and how do you decide which Words to accept or not accept?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:58 pm

poptart wrote:How do you think it contradicts His ministry and how do you decide which Words to accept or not accept?

The ones in red ink.

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:39 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:It absolutely amazes me how anyone can put any stock in the bible. Between all the rewrites, reinterpretations, motives behind the rewrites, etc., it's a joke.

Assuming one who puts stock in the Bible tries his or her best to live by its words, why would it bother you so much?

There is nothing wrong with the way Christians are called to live. We are called to be good, humble servants. We are called to treat people respectfully, love/respect our spouses, love/raise our children with benevolent authority, give to the poor with pure motives, avoid anger, etc. We do not always succeed at being good, but that is because we're human. Non-Christians don't always succeed at being good, either.

If your only problem with Christians is that they worry about the state of your soul, then I suggest you get over it. They are not (or should not be) judging you, because let's face it, they have no jurisdiction over your soul. They simply care about you. Whether or not you agree with them is your call, but there is no reason to be bitter or angry because someone is, as they see it, trying to help you. You should be more bothered by people who supposedly care about you but don't show any concern about your soul, if they are Christian. If you don't believe there is a Hell, and you don't put any stock in the Bible, then I'm not sure what about the Bible's message could cause you to be so bothered by it. You could simply say you're not interested.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:47 pm

Well if everybody felt that way, 88's thread on the main forum would never have gotten to 6 pages. And then where would we be?

So ppanther, how's your little one doing? Is one enough, or are more on the way?

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:08 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:Well if everybody felt that way, 88's thread on the main forum would never have gotten to 6 pages. And then where would we be?

We'd be inundated with an avalanche of inane Mikey posts, I guess.

Praise God. He works in mysterious ways.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:31 pm

poptart wrote:Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you think He said that?

No

John said that or some version of that. As many times as it has been translated and edited by higher ups, John couldve said "And Jesus said, lets go to the waffle house, because I am drunk and need some hash browns covered and smothered"

ppanther · Post by **ppanther** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:29 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:Well if everybody felt that way, 88's thread on the main forum would never have gotten to 6 pages. And then where would we be?

So ppanther, how's your little one doing? Is one enough, or are more on the way?

Goober, she is a fantastic, freakishly tall (no, really) 6-month-old who absolutely dominates my time. I also have a very busy 2-year-old boy, and I am d-o-n-e!!! Thanks for asking!

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:32 pm

ppanther wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:Well if everybody felt that way, 88's thread on the main forum would never have gotten to 6 pages. And then where would we be?

So ppanther, how's your little one doing? Is one enough, or are more on the way?
Goober, she is a fantastic, freakishly tall (no, really) 6-month-old who absolutely dominates my time. I also have a very busy 2-year-old boy, and I am d-o-n-e!!! Thanks for asking!

Congratulations. I’m sure they’re gorgeous kids.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:43 am

Sam wrote:I read chunks in confirmation school. I've read all of Revelations. Good bits of other books. Never read it in its entirety.

If I picked up the Bible and the first thing I read was Revelation, I'd prolly put it down and never read it again.

Give the first 3-4 chapters of Genesis a slow read.
Then the book of John.

My advice, for what it's worth to ya.