88 Went To Mass Today

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:37 pm

Also...why would people think that God's intentions are scrutable?

Yet, many, many folks are in the business of relaying his intentions to the credulous. My beef is not with those credulous, but with the charlatans. The charlatans have done such a number on the credulous that when faced with legitimate, clearly worded questions about their faith, they can only respond with venom and sidebars.

It's a shame - supposedly intelligent folks should be able to handle a few questions and some discourse.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:14 am

I'm loving this. Watching people give complete and utter non-answers while condescendingly fobbing them off as answers is always great sport.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:29 am

Well, there are SO many questions, comments, and directions taken in this thread since I gave my reply to Smackie that I really can't take them all on.

88, ppanther and I are not in disagreement at all over NT/OT connection.

Her first post on pg.19 is basically the same thing as what I posted on pg.18, but from just a little different angle.

PSU wrote:How can one be reconciled to the OT and the NT? They head in two completely different directions.

They both point toward Christ, who is the Word.

In the Old Testament, God spoke His Word.

But the Word has now come and everything is in Him - look up, which I posted (OT)Jeremiah 31:33, and (NT)Romans 10:4.

Folks are not bound to hold onto the laws and rules of the Old Testament now because Christ has finished it all.

It doesn't mean that God's Words at that time were wrong, it just means that adhering to the law can't save us now - only Christ can.

Smackie, about the gay thing, I'll briefy tell you where I come from on that.
I'm speaking for myself, and not all Christians, understand.

First, if you're gay, please come to my church.
You're MORE than welcome.

Smack is smack, and we hit on ALL targets on this board.
But in REAL life, I would not belittle anyone for anything going on in their life.

Man being together with woman is clearly God's intention for us.

Mark 10:6-9 (Jesus speaking)
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

If you're in homosexuality, it doesn't mean you can't be a Christian.

To be a Christian you must just recognize that Jesus is the Christ.
You admit your sinfulness, believe that He has solved the issue fully, and you accept Him into your heart.

Faith in Christ is not legalism, because we ALL are in the wrong in MANY areas.
Homosexuality being one area, for some people.

It's certainly not God's intention for us.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:38 am

PSU and Van, I don't see anything but people trying to answer questions to the best of their ability.

I tried, the answers are provided are lacking. Personal testimony does nothing for either of you. I am sorry for my shortcomings in that arena. By basic answer is "I don't know, but I believe" - Agnostic Theist.

I don't believe the Carpenter's son was lying.

Poptart has also provided answers. The answers aren't to your liking. If you're seeking - in earnest - you will find Him, I assure you. I wish I could provide more clear cut direction, but I cannot.

Good luck to both of you, each of you seem willing to believe and the inadequate answers or non answers aren't helping you here.

I might suggest that this isn't the proper forum to pose your questions. But that's me.

Nothing Speed Gentlemen, and Science Bless Us.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:02 am

I might suggest that this isn't the proper forum to pose your questions

You might be right...'cuz at any time Cuda might log in and post a pic of Pape Benedict peeling back his fetid flap and offering suck at his holy Morel - in the name of Gawd.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:08 am

Why did God's Word require a complete overhaul? We're not talking subtle interpretational differences here, either. We went from His Word being "Kill! Kill! Kill! Judgment shall be meted out swift and sure!" to "Mulligan?"

When an infallible God sets down the law, how the hell does it become obsolete? How does it become a matter of picking and choosing as to which things remain the Word verses other things which apparently had an expiration date?

Again, why are those OT bits even still included in the Bible? If anything, they ought to have a giant burgundy circle over them, with a diagonal slash. Since a good chunk of it is no longer the Word, none of it is, which means none of it ever was. It's all been obviated. The entire thing should be shitcanned, from the calls for stonings to all the silly children's fables about ludicrous arcs, 900 year old men, fucked up apples and talking serpents.

It should all be condensed down to a preamble to the NT, delineating nothing more than those silly prophecies, which ought to be retained solely as cool teasers for the main movie.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:07 am

Van wrote:Why did God's Word require a complete overhaul?

Van, as ppanther noted, God promised Christ before He gave the law to Moses.

Christ often made reference to the Old Testament.

When an infallible God sets down the law, how the hell does it become obsolete?

It's been answered, but you might think ...

You give rules to your 4 yr old child.
The fact that there is another standard set by you for him when he is 16 years old does not mean that the standards you gave him at 4 yrs old were wrong.

It's a different time.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:12 am

poptah,

Props on being the good testifier, but those who are questioning are not worth it. None are truly interested in anything more than mocking. I think you know this and are taking the higher road. If so, so be it. I'd just say fuck off and be over with it.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:42 am

For the atheists.... and those who aren't.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:28 am

poptart wrote:
Van wrote:Why did God's Word require a complete overhaul?
Van, as ppanther noted, God promised Christ before He gave the law to Moses.

So? That doesn't answer the question. If the OT truly was God's Word - including all the vile, vengeful, primitive shit - then it should have remained so even after He sent Jesus to Earth. I'm pretty sure the story goes that Christ was acting as God's messenger. He wasn't Al fucking Haig, deciding to unilaterally change everything Pops had laid down for lo those many centuries.

If God truly felt that Christ's Word was THE Word, then why wasn't it THE Word from Day One? God is perfect, isn't he? He's not Brett Favre trying to decide whether to play again. Why did mankind have to get absolutely raped by God's Word before He apparently saw the error of his ways and decided to backpedal on nearly everything He'd set in stone before?

Christ often made reference to the Old Testament.

So what? His teachings directly contradict the OT. He didn't "fulfill" it, he completely obviated it, rendering it obsolete. All that violent garbage people had been previously led to believe was God's Word? Pfffft.

"Sheeples, we've changed our business model. We're under new management. We're the New and Improved Word."

When an infallible God sets down the law, how the hell does it become obsolete?
It's been answered,

No, it hasn't, despite your protests to the contrary. All you've done is toss out vague nothings about Christ being the Word. That's not an answer, and it's never going to be an answer, so don't trot it out again and expect it to be anything but ridiculed as the non-answer it is.

but you might think ...

You give rules to your 4 yr old child.
The fact that there is another standard set by you for him when he is 16 years old does not mean that the standards you gave him at 4 yrs old were wrong.

It's a different time.

Bullshit. Men are men. Men from before Christ's time were the same as those from 150 AD. The only difference is the rules changed, and everything that was the Word before suddenly became obsolete.

God changed His mind. Period.

Either that, or the Bible never was His Word, which is clearly the case, since it was written by man, altered by man, used by man, and discarded as needed by man.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:36 am

Really, the bottom line to this discussion here is that God is a colossal asswipe who fucks goats in the ass and his shit kid, Heysoos, felches those goats while Christian buttplugs dream of wiping the goatmud off his chin.

Get your own fucking lives, losers.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:39 am

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:56 am

Really, the bottom line to this discussion here is that God is a colossal asswipe who fucks goats in the ass and his shit kid, Heysoos, felches those goats while Christian buttplugs dream of wiping the goatmud off his chin.

Can someone remind me again why we're not also allowed to say that about Allah and Mohammed?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:28 am

The Deity was run.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:44 am

88, I will reply to your post some more when I have the time, and also to Van's post, but I'll just say this now.

Genesis 3 is a critical chapter in the Bible, as it is when everything changed for humanity.
As soon as man fell into this fundamental problem of Genesis 3 (Genesis 3:1-6), God gave a promise - Gensesis 3:15.

Here's a quick, but to the point, trail of important Scripture to see.

Genesis 3:15 (seed of woman, particular note) ---> Isaiah 7:14 ---> Galatians 4:3,4 ---> Matthew 16:16 ---> 1 John 3:8

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:18 am

Van wrote:
Really, the bottom line to this discussion here is that God is a colossal asswipe who fucks goats in the ass and his shit kid, Heysoos, felches those goats while Christian buttplugs dream of wiping the goatmud off his chin.
Can someone remind me again why we're not also allowed to say that about Allah and Mohammed?

Same ole same ole...

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:15 am

Roach, I did reply to your general question a number of pages ago. haha

IndyFrisco wrote:poptah,

Props on being the good testifier, but those who are questioning are not worth it. None are truly interested in anything more than mocking. I think you know this and are taking the higher road. If so, so be it. I'd just say fuck off and be over with it.

Some are mocking, sure, and even some of those asking legit questions are mocking and smacking - ooops, it IS a smack board, yes?

The mockers who have no substance and no real intention of having real dialogue are scrolled.

But 88, Smackie, Van, PSU, M Club, and others have asked legit questions.
As long as I have the time to respond, it's all good.

Van and M Club have been a little chippy, and I question whether Van has actually read some of my replies (hello Felix!) but ... oh well.

88 wrote:Christ may have often made reference to the Old Testament. But I can't find anything where the Old Testament made reference to Christ.

The meaning of 'Christ' is "annointed one."

From Genesis 3:15, when God first promised the Savior, events of the Old Testament were directed toward this FUNDAMENTAL event (the coming of the Messiah) which would eventually happen.

The focal point of the Old Testament was the coming Messiah who God would send.

The Jews of Jesus' time expected and awaited the Messiah, as do Jews of this day, who don't recognize Jesus as Christ.

I could go on at great length about this, but will put up a handful of Scriptures with a few comments.

Genesis 3:15 - the first promise
Genesis 12:1-3 - the promise that He will come through Abraham
Genesis 49:10 - the Messiah will be a descendant of Judah
Psalms 132:11 - the Messiah will be a descendant of David
also Jeremiah 23:5,6
also Jeremiah 33:15
Deuteronomy 18:15-22 - God will send One who will speak HIS Words and we must listen to Him

Deuteronomy 18:18,19
18: I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Isaiah 9:1-7 - God HIMSELF will come, and in human form, He will be a descendant of David, and He will reign forever

Isaiah 9:6,7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 7:14 - God will give a sign, a virgin will give birth and shall call His name Immanuel (meaning: God with us)

Again, I could go on at much more length about Old Testament Messianic prophecies, about the blood, and about the "shadowing" of the Messiah, and this is just a brief summary.

And also again, it is very commonly understood that the core fundamental direction of the Old Testament is toward the coming Savior.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am

Van wrote:If the OT truly was God's Word, then it should have remained so even after He sent Jesus to Earth.

Know that what you said here is pretty much at the core of why the Jews demanded Jesus be crucified.

They said He was changing God's law and God's Word.
On top of that He was claiming to be the Messiah - was claiming to be God Himself, while butchering God's Word.
Blasphemy.

What you're saying is right in line with what the Pharisees said.

So how did Jesus respond to the Pharisees?

He said ...

John 5:39
Search the Scriptures (the Old Testament); for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me

He told them the Old Testament was testifying of Him.

How could they (being the most HIGHLY learned people in Scripture) possibly miss the Messiah??
I mean, of all things!
Sounds preposterous.

As I've said before in this thread, the manner and methods by which Jesus was fulfilling prophecy was SO far off from what they imagined, that they couldn't, in their wildest dreams, reconcile in their mind that THIS guy is the Christ.

"No frickin' way, man!!," they said.

But Jesus' method and Kingdom is all spiritual, and they were completely physically-oriented.

That is why they whiffed so badly.

And not only did they whiff, they KILLED Him, which, irony of ALL ironies, further fulfilled God's Word.

oops!

lol

You may think that Jesus changed God's Word, but he ... COMPLETELY ... fulfilled it.

Matthew 5:17-20 (Jesus speaking)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus told everyone that He fulfilled the law and the prophets.

And He said that unless a person's righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees (who were THE outstanding, learned, and upright people of that time), they could not inherit God's kingdom.

Nobody can reach that level of righteous.

So how does a person?

Easy: Jesus, you are the Christ, the son of the living God.
A person can only be seen righteous in God's eyes if he is in Christ - Romans 3:22.

God promised (Old Testament)

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 and I will remember their sin no more

Jesus delivered (New Testament)

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:29 pm

Just quickly ...

Yes, the Jews did not (and do not) recognize Jesus as the Christ for just the reason you said ... and some others.

At the time Jesus came, the understanding the Jews had was that the Messiah would come as a powerful leader who would physically restore Israel to status as a dominant nation, and do so forever.
But Jesus Christ's message was overwhelmingly spiritual in nature and the Kingdom He established and reigns over is also spiritual.

About the government, ...

If we look at that Scripture (Isaiah 9:6,7) we see (v.7) that Jesus says there will be no end to His government and He will reign over it forever.

This is an eternal government.

Hence, it is spiritual in nature, as is again, overwhelmingly, His his entire message and purpose - to resolve the spiritual problem that all of us have.

He is the eternal Davidic King.

God's Word to David.

2 Samual 7:16
And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:31 pm

pop, Christ didn't fulfill the laws of the OT, he abandoned them and completely changed the rules. He said, "Everything you'd been led to believe...forget about it. It was wrong. This is right."

"But Jesus, those are the laws of God. They're immutable. Are you disagreeing with God?"

"Yep. Dig my blue eyes and Teutonic good looks."

If that's 'fulfilling,' then yes, any prophecy can be seen to have been fulfilled strictly by wanting to interpret any series of events as such.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:35 pm

Jesus was "Teutonic"?

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:38 pm

According to nearly every depiction of him we've ever seen in every Catholic church and many homes in America, yes. If we're to believe all those paintings of Christ that hang above the mantels of fat, Latina housewives everywhere, Christ was the lead guitarist for the Scorpions.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:08 pm

You guys are cracking me up. Keep up the good work you ignorant fools.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:57 am

Van wrote:pop, Christ didn't fulfill the laws of the OT, he abandoned them and completely changed the rules

I posted this a couple of times.

God said ...

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 and I will remember their sin no more

- The day will come when I will make a new covenant, not according to the old covenant.

- I will put my law in their inward parts (spiritual) and write it in their hearts.

- I will remember their sin no more.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat May 01, 2010 2:25 am

Right. Exactly. He ditched the old Word.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat May 01, 2010 2:51 am

One might say it is a ditching of the old Word if there was no "warning" of it.

But God said ... in advance ... what He was going to do.

The Jews at that time just couldn't catch on to it because they were so completly oriented to the physical, but God's Kingdom is spiritual.

God TOLD them that He would make a new covenant.
He TOLD them that His word would take a different form - it would be internalized within a person.

And that is what happens when a person receives Christ, who is the Word.

And God sees a person's sin no more.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:07 am

So everybody who sinned before Christ showed up is fucked, and ever since Christ died everyone who doesn't accept Christ as their savior - including those who never even heard about him - are also fucked.

Most of mankind since the dawn of time is fucked! Nice!

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:46 am

And that's ok, right? Heaven isn't big enough for every tom, dick and harry that shakes out of a fallopian tube.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:53 am

88 wrote:That seems like a "bait and switch" move to me. The clear wording of the original promise was an eternal government and peace (and not some ethereal construct). If I was a Jew, I'd have been pissed at Jesus Christ's suggestion that the government was going to be spiritual and that instead of reigning the Jews were supposed to accept getting slapped on the cheek and stuff.

Just to give a reply to this, 88, it may seem that way on quick glance, but when looking closer, perhaps something important is seen.

In v.17 it says His government, and it says His kingdom.
And in v.16 it says the government.

What it does not say is your government.

This is a very important distinction.

When God called Abraham, He began to put into motion the engine by which the Messiah would arise from among the Jewish people.

Genesis 12:1-3
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:
2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

God promised that through Abraham's family line, all families of the earth would be blessed.
Not just the Jewish people.

God was going to provide for blessing for ALL peoples.

The Jewish people, however, had developed a VERY strong "chosen people" ideology - thinking, WE are chosen by God, WE will be blessed, WE are special, WE will dominate.
And the fact that they had been continuously oppressed by other peoples only added fuel to that ideologicaly fire.

And this continue to this day.

And so the Jews of Jesus day wanted (and expected) a Messiah who would be a dominant king - a king who would make Israel great among all nations.

But that was not God's intention, that is not what God said, and that is not what God has done.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:55 am

Van wrote:So everybody who sinned before Christ showed up is fucked

I don't believe that to be the case.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:57 am

2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 and I will bless them that bless thee

pop, at least admit that the Bible sorely needs an editor. Christ, that's some seriously shitty writing.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:00 am

poptart wrote:
Van wrote:So everybody who sinned before Christ showed up is fucked
I don't believe that to be the case.

Since practically everything under the sun was a mortal sin back then, and there was no Christ to provide them with absolution, how did they gain salvation? They couldn't do it on merit, because no one was that pious.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:36 am

Van wrote:So everybody who sinned before Christ showed up is fucked, and ever since Christ died everyone who doesn't accept Christ as their savior - including those who never even heard about him - are also fucked.

Most of mankind since the dawn of time is fucked! Nice!

Sucks to be part of the "unsaved". Sort of like living on the Gulf Coast right now. Luck of the draw and stuff.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat May 01, 2010 6:49 am

Van wrote:Since practically everything under the sun was a mortal sin back then, and there was no Christ to provide them with absolution, how did they gain salvation? They couldn't do it on merit, because no one was that pious.

If one looks at Matthew 17:-19 (the transfiguration incident) they see that Jesus took some of the apostles to a mountain where He was transfigured before them.
At that time, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus, and they spoke together.

We can recognize that Moses and Elijah had attained salvation.

Then we can see Romans 4.

Romans 4:3
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Abraham was righteous because of his belief in God - this (Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.) was said originally in Genesis 15:6, in the context where God was promising Abraham that the Messiah would in fact come through his seed - even though his wife was seemingly WAY too old to bear a child.

Despite the age of his wife, Abraham believed God's Word about the Messiah coming through his seed, and was seen as righteous before God.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:04 pm

And what about all those other millions who were neither: 1-Abraham, who supposedly had coffee klatches with God. 2-Progenitors of the Messiah.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:33 pm

Van wrote:And what about all those other millions who were neither: 1-Abraham, who supposedly had coffee klatches with God. 2-Progenitors of the Messiah.

Have you ever heard of "Special Dispensation"?

sin,
G Carlin

There were, uh, there were other things that bothered me; perhaps it's, uh, retrospect, y'know. I'm seeing them better now but I think I was troubled too at the time by the fact that my church would keep changing rules. I mean, they would change a rule anytime they wanted. "THIS LAW'S ETERNAL! Except for this weekend! SPECIAL DISPENSATION!" Magic words. Yeah, like eating meat on Friday was definitely a sin- except for the people in Philadelphia; they were number one in the scrap iron drive, yeah! They would give it away as a prize, y'know? If your parish gave the most money to the bishop's relief fund...Hamburgers on Friday, yeah! Wow. And I've been gone a long time now. It's not even a sin anymore to eat meat on Friday but I'll betcha there are still some guys in Hell doing time on the meat rap, right? "I thought it was retroactive! I had a baloney sandwich! This guy had a beef jerky, right? Tell 'em what you had." How'd you like to do eternity for a beef jerky. Yeah, 'cause Hell wasn't no five to ten, y'know. Hell was LATER!

Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and Limbo. Those were the four big places to go...yeah. Heaven was the only one they showed you pictures of. Drawings. I assume they were drawings, right? Artist's conception of Heaven. You'd find that in, uh, sometimes you'd find that in Treasure Chest, the comic book with Chuck White, the Catholic comic book. (smattering of applause) Yeah, a Chuck White fan. Yeah, occasionally you'd see a picture of Heaven. Heaven was always a lot of yellow and white light, lot of vertical lines. Lot of clouds. Might have been clouds, might have been apartment buildings; you weren't really sure. And a lot of tall angels. Y'ever notice that? Except for the cherubs, all the angels were really tall dudes, yeah. And all blonde. They had far too many blondes in Heaven as far as I was concerned.

Hell, they never showed you any pictures of Hell; Hell was real easy to understand. Hell was fire and anyone can dig fire, right? "Hey, Hell is like burnin' a hundred Christmas trees an' jumpin' right in the middle, y'know?"

Purgatory was weird. Purgatory was temporary Hell. It was like it was as bad as Hell but...you knew you were goin' home, man. Often wondered if they had like, short time clubs in Purgatory, y'know. Little buttons- "I'm short two eons, man, hey. I could do an eon standin' on my head, man." Purgatory.

The weirdest of all was Limbo. Limbo was where they sent unbaptized babies. The reasoning was, "It wasn't their fault". Yep. Can't see God if you're not baptized, but you were too young to make the decision- whip 'em into Limbo. OOO! What could limbo have been, man? (makes spooky noises) "Welcome to Limboooo." I think they've since canceled Limbo. I'm not completely sure, but I think when they, uh, purged a few of the saints, they called off Limbo, too, yeah. Hope they promoted everyone, sent them to Heaven, y'know. Didn't just cut them loose in space, right..yeah.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat May 01, 2010 11:24 pm

Van wrote:And what about all those other millions who were neither: 1-Abraham, who supposedly had coffee klatches with God. 2-Progenitors of the Messiah.

I pointed out Moses and Elijah (Genesis 17) to show that there was salvation prior to Christ.

I brought up Abraham because he was the "father of faith," and we are told why God saw him as righteous.
His faith made him righteous in God's eyes.
That standard would apply for all.

Jesus had disdain for the Pharisees, and he pointed out their hypocrisy - they thought they were "righteous" because they kept the law to it's letter, but their heart was truly far from God.

They had no faith in God, otherwise they would have recognized Jesus as Christ.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun May 02, 2010 9:17 pm

poptart wrote: But God said ... in advance ... what He was going to do.

so, it's kinda like when you put up an absolute brick of a jump shot? as soon as it leaves your hand you know it's way off, so you yell "bank". if the shot somehow banks in, it's cool, cause you called it in advance.

so far it seems god is a violent drunk prone to smite binges, has a bad case of ADHD (OT, NT) and just a little bit of a procrastinator (5K years- jews, 2K years-christers). Fukk, maybe i'm god, other than the mean drunk part. i'm a happy talkative drunk type.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Sun May 02, 2010 9:30 pm

PSUFAN wrote: Heaven isn't big enough for every tom, dick and harry that shakes out of a fallopian tube.

I could care less about tom and harry. As far as I''m concerned, if there is no dick, it ain't heaven.

~The Book of Lagos

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Mon May 03, 2010 4:56 pm

R-Jack wrote:
PSUFAN wrote: Heaven isn't big enough for every tom, dick and harry that shakes out of a fallopian tube.
I could care less about tom and harry. As far as I''m concerned, if there is no dick, it ain't heaven.

~The Book of Lagos

Pedophiles (such as yourself)and people into beastiality (you know, people like you) should not crack homo jokes.

Now go fuck yourself, instead of your daughter and the horse you call a wife.