Big 12 Threat?

[indyfrisco]

Any school without a FBS/1-A football team in a "super conference" should get dropped.

[Degenerate]

JFC, Terry, enough with the geographical machinations. They don't matter anymore. You do realize the PACIFIC Ten conference is about to accept four schools from the state of Texas, don't you?

And KU to the Big East? Can you explain why a conference whose non-private school members are swimming in red ink athletically (Rutgers alone carries a staggering $95m in debt, which is twice its annual revenue) is going to invite large public research and/or land grant schools (outside their conf profile, btw) that do nothing for the football end of the financial equation except make it worse?

KU is fucked short-term. Long-term, if the B10/SEC/ACC think 16 is the way to go, they've got cards to play.

[Degenerate]

Oh, and Colorado's gone according to ESPN.

[Goober McTuber]

Seems like the Big 10 and the Big 12 could just swap conference names now.

[Terry in Crapchester]

And KU to the Big East? Can you explain why a conference whose non-private school members are swimming in red ink athletically (Rutgers alone carries a staggering $95m in debt, which is twice its annual revenue) is going to invite large public research and/or land grant schools (outside their conf profile, btw) that do nothing for the football end of the financial equation except make it worse?

My best guess is they're going with the strength in numbers theory. The Big East is also vulnerable, in the Big East's case, to raids from the Big 10 and/or ACC (which in turn might get raided by the Big 10, which reportedly has some interest in Maryland, and the SEC). Adding Iowa State, KU, K-State and Mizzou to the conference increases the odds that the conference survives such a raid. They'll probably worry about the revenue end of the equation later, much as the Big XII did in '96.

Btw, aren't you a KU alum living in DC? You do realize that if KU does wind up in the Big East, that will mean, in all likelihood, a basketball roadtrip to Georgetown every other year, don't you? Why look a gift horse in the mouth?

KU is fucked short-term. Long-term, if the B10/SEC/ACC think 16 is the way to go, they've got cards to play.

Not if this takes a decade or longer to play out. In that case, the Big East is their best option at least in the short term. Not to mention that the Pac, as I previously stated, now provides a real-life test case to determine whether 16 works.

[Degenerate]

Btw, aren't you a KU alum living in DC? You do realize that if KU does wind up in the Big East, that will mean, in all likelihood, a basketball roadtrip to Georgetown every other year, don't you? Why look a gift horse in the mouth?

lmao... KU comes east about once a year already. Saw them play at Temple last year...saw them at the Palestra a few years before that. Preseason NIT at MSG. And on and on. I don't need to pray for them to join the Big East because it's easier for me to hop on the Metro than it is to take Amtrak.

Besides, in that fucked up Big East schedule, KU is just as likely not to play at G'Town for three years as they are to play them every year. You play some teams 2x and some not at all. 16 teams in basketball is an utter joke.

I have no prob with ND being in the Big East for b-ball but that conf had a lot more legitmacy (and was a better TV draw) when everyone played everyone and the Cincinnatis and Lousivilles of the world were back in the Metro. I think schools like Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's have suffered bigtime athletically as a result. Not that any of their administrators likely notice or care, though.

EDIT: and btw, ask Gary Bettman how "strength in numbers" works out. I see it as further dilution of an already bad product outside of men's b-ball and one women's program.

[Cuda]

Looks like the dominoes are starting to fall.

The Pac 10 has announced that Colorado has accepted entry into the PAC-10 (or 12, or 16, or however many it ends up) Texas, aTm, T-Tech, Oklahoma & OK State are also expected to announce joining the Pac-whatever later today

Nebraska has supposedly decided last night to join the Big 10 (11?) And it seems money has at least as much to do with it as anything else- allegedly twice the $10 million they were getting per year from the big ex-eye-eye.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Besides, in that fucked up Big East schedule, KU is just as likely not to play at G'Town for three years as they are to play them every year. You play some teams 2x and some not at all.

The teams in the Big East now play each other at leat once per year (you play three teams two times each). To me the logical solution in an expanded conference is a chedule where everyone play everyone else once per year. If you need to balance the schedule, give each team a home-and-home vs. one other opponent. That having been said, if that's the logical solution, it's probably a decent bet that the Big East will steer clear of it.

16 teams in basketball is an utter joke.

Not as bad as 16 teams in football.

I have no prob with ND being in the Big East for b-ball but that conf had a lot more legitmacy (and was a better TV draw) when everyone played everyone and the Cincinnatis and Lousivilles of the world were back in the Metro.

Now I'm lmao, the Metro has been gone a good 15 years or so. Besides, the Big East would have folded had Cincinnati, Louisville and USF not joined for football.

I think schools like Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's have suffered bigtime athletically as a result. Not that any of their administrators likely notice or care, though.

I think both St. John's and Providence have had an Elite 8 run in the era when the Big East had 14 basketball teams. Of course, Providence's run that year was rather unexpected.

EDIT: and btw, ask Gary Bettman how "strength in numbers" works out. I see it as further dilution of an already bad product outside of men's b-ball and one women's program.

That was a reference to the last time the Big East was raided. Recall, that was a perfect storm consisting of the ACC wanting to grab 3 Big East teams, the Big East's own decision to bounce Temple, and the NCAA expanding minimum football conference membership for 1-A from 6 teams to 8. If the Big East is above that minimum, the conference could survive a future raid, at least potentially.

I suppose you could argue that the Big East should simply drop football, but in that event, the conference as we know it would cease to exist. Most likely, the football members of the Big East would be disbursed among a few of the remaining conferences, and ND and the non-football schools would form a Catholic Conference for sports other than football, probably poaching a few of the more prominent A10 members (St. Joe's, Xavier, Dayton and Saint Louis) in the process.

EDIT: As I see it, the Big East is Kansas' best option, at least in the short term. There's no room in the Pac. Big 10, SEC, ACC -- all don't appear to be interested, at least right now. They could join the Big East or the MWC, of the two, the Big East is probably a step up in football and definitely a step (or more) up in basketball. C-USA, or Lefty's new SWC, would take Kansas, but that's definitely too far a step down. Independence is an option, I suppose, but then you have to deal with scheduling. You'd have to have Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State and Missouri all on the schedule (definitely doable). You'd also have to contact ND, but I doubt ND would be willing to play more than 2 games/year from among that group. Army and Navy might be available. On top of that, you'd probably have to get at least 3 games/year out of the Big East and MWC combined. Not to mention that independence would only work, if at all, for football, you'd still need a conference home for other sports, especially mens' basketball.

[Dinsdale]

As far as the PAC16 divisions go, everything I'm hearing locally (call me skeptical, but these rumors are coming down the wire a little too fast to be credible, but it's June, and rumors are all we have around here) -- there will be 4 divisions of 4, to both limit travel and continue the traditional rivalries.

Makes much more sense. Of course Oregon and OS are going to want to play each other in the season finale. Cal/Stanford must continue. I've heard rumors that Texas and OU like to get together for some sort of traditional thingy -- but that could just be a rumor.

So having divisions of 1) Oregon/OS/UDub/Wazzu 2) The Cali Family 3) UT/OU/aTm/TT 4) CU/OSU/Zona/ASU makes sense.

I guess OSU and CU, by default, become newfound "archrivals."

With this scenario, you have your 3 built in divisional games (one of them was going to be on the schedule no matter what). Then, you play 2 games apiece against the other 3 divisions on a rotating basis -- which doesn't necessarily bring the "superpowers" to your building very often, but that only really affects Wazzu, OS, and ASU, since they're the only ones who ever have any trouble filling their building.

But the PAC better get some ground rules down quickly. In a conference like that, a team like OS can't have a 40K seat building with halfassed facilities and expect to host Texas and OU. Presently, the Sheepfuckers get swamped when it's USC coming to town, the Civil War sells out years in advance, and occasionally UDub fans make the roadie, since Beav tix come in boxes of Cracker Jacks. The league needs to make it clear that the extra shared revenue must go to stadium improvements for X number of years.

Wazzu would need to get their shit together quickly.

But damn, get a bunch of teams that at least try and field a good team every year -- Texas, OU, USC, Oregon, OS, UDub... it makes Kal getting their 12th straight MNC more of a hurdle.

[King Crimson]

Dins: i've heard the 4 pods of 4 teams thing here which i think would be pretty interesting....though i think CU/ASU/UA/Tech and OU/UT/ATM/OSU is more likely than OSU with the AZ schools but heck who knows? I wonder what drunkenMike thinks now that his two alma maters are in the same division....

talk around Boulder is CU and Tech will be bitter rivals. Hawkins has actually beat Tech twice, amazingly. The game in Lubbock, Cody H. played with a concussion and didn't remember the game after it was over. that's not a well you can go to, too often. play your kid with a concussion for a rare W.

[Dinsdale]

Since I'm too lazy to do the research, maybe someone here can rattle off some numbers...

Which of the PAC16 schools has inadequate stadiums?

I know OS is about 45K. That's not enough. Hell, Oregon only does 60K, but coming up with dough for facility upgrades never seems to be a problem (thanks, Uncle Phil). Martin Stadium (Wazzu) is at about 40K, I think.

Is everyone else up to snuff?

The PAC has always had even revenue sharing, so I thibk there would need to be a mandate to spend a certain (large) chunk of the new revenue on the stadiums to make this superconference work.

[indyfrisco]

that's not a well you can go to, too often. play your kid with a concussion for a rare W.

Bullshit! My son had a compound fracture with his bone sticking through his leggings and he legged out a triple that was sure to be a single. He wanted to have a pinch runner, and I told him to rub some dirt on it and shut his pussy up. Next pitch, he stole home and we went up 65-0 in the bottom of the 5th on our way to a 92-0 voctory.

- SoCalToeJam

[Truman]

As far as the PAC16 divisions go, everything I'm hearing locally (call me skeptical, but these rumors are coming down the wire a little too fast to be credible, but it's June, and rumors are all we have around here) -- there will be 4 divisions of 4, to both limit travel and continue the traditional rivalries.

Makes much more sense. Of course Oregon and OS are going to want to play each other in the season finale. Cal/Stanford must continue. I've heard rumors that Texas and OU like to get together for some sort of traditional thingy -- but that could just be a rumor.

So having divisions of 1) Oregon/OS/UDub/Wazzu 2) The Cali Family 3) UT/OU/aTm/TT 4) CU/OSU/Zona/ASU makes sense.

I guess OSU and CU, by default, become newfound "archrivals."...

Might wanna sharpen your pencil again, Dins. Bedlam in the Where-the-Wind-Comes-Whippin'-Down-the-Plains State means every bit as much as that annual touch football game you Audubon-types play in the U&L.

Surf & Hoof Conference...

FTFY

[Cuda]

The game in Lubbock, Cody H. played with a concussion and didn't remember the game after it was over. that's not a well you can go to, too often. play your kid with a concussion for a rare W.

I say keep going with it until it stops working.

[MuchoBulls]

the fact remains that the distance from Kansas to Syracuse is actually shorter than from South Florida to Syracuse. If they made it work for a school, which, with all due respect, doesn't have half the history, tradition and prestige that KU does, why wouldn't they make it work with the Jayhawks[/i]?

That was being generous. We don't have anywhere near a tenth of the basketball tradition and prestige that Kansas does.

[BSmack]

Are they still going to call this megaconference the "Pac 10"? I would think the more appropriate name would be the Big West.

[Dinsdale]

Might wanna sharpen your pencil again, Dins. Bedlam in the Where-the-Wind-Comes-Whippin'-Down-the-Plains State means every bit as much as that annual touch football game you Audubon-types play in the U&L.

Maybe switching OSU and TT makes sense. But regardless how it comes down (if it does), one team is going to end up in a pod it doesn't want to be in... and it ain't going to be one of the PAC8ers.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Are they still going to call this megaconference the "Pac 10"? I would think the more appropriate name would be the Big West.

The current Big West might take issue with that.

[hardcrow]

Yeah, Nebraska paid dearly...reputation-wise...for accepting all those PQs and total jugheads over the years, too. Lawrence Phillips and the like painted NU in a not so flattering light after years of being looked upon as a pillar of quality student-athletes.

Glad to see some people and topics still haven't changed much around here....

hc

[BSmack]

Are they still going to call this megaconference the "Pac 10"? I would think the more appropriate name would be the Big West.

The current Big West might take issue with that.

Then maybe the Really Big West?

[indyfrisco]

Are they still going to call this megaconference the "Pac 10"? I would think the more appropriate name would be the Big West.

No...more like The U&L and the Rest

[Mr T]

Are they still going to call this megaconference the "Pac 10"? I would think the more appropriate name would be the Big West.

The current Big West might take issue with that.

Then maybe the Really Big West?

I was thinking maybe "GOD DAMN! Look at that Big Ass Conference" The GDLATBAC

[King Crimson]

Might wanna sharpen your pencil again, Dins. Bedlam in the Where-the-Wind-Comes-Whippin'-Down-the-Plains State means every bit as much as that annual touch football game you Audubon-types play in the U&L.

Maybe switching OSU and TT makes sense. But regardless how it comes down (if it does), one team is going to end up in a pod it doesn't want to be in... and it ain't going to be one of the PAC8ers.

ASU and UA aren't orig Pac 8, wha? none of the Pac 8 are in any pod danger in the Tech/OSU scenario.

[Degenerate]

More shit thrown against the wall, or....?

http://www.kctv5.com/sports/23860558/detail.html

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- High level sources in multiple conferences have told KCTV5 that Texas and Texas A&M are looking to move to the Big Ten Conference and have petitioned for membership, while the University of Oklahoma is planning on petitioning the Southeastern Conference to become a member of its conference.

KCTV5's sources said that Texas and Texas A&M do not have to include Texas Tech or Baylor in their plans. Sources told KCTV5 that there have already been discussions about the two schools entering the Big Ten and that the agreement could be made as soon as Thursday.

Oklahoma is currently working on petitioning to enter the SEC, but must find another university to enter the league with them, sources said. TMZ Sports has reported that Oklahoma State is likely to accept a bid to move to the Pac-10. Earlier Thursday, Colorado accepted an invitation to join the Pac-10.

KCTV5's sources also said that some Big 12 officials are saying decisions on which deals Big 12 schools take invitations by the end of the day Thursday, although the deals may not be officially announced. Big 12 officials also tell KCTV5's sources that some Big 12 office employees are planning to be without a job within weeks.

Those decisions would leave the University of Kansas, Kansas State University and the University of Missouri with Baylor, Texas Tech and Iowa State in the Big 12. The Missouri Board of Curators met Thursday and planned to meet Friday to discuss the future of Missouri sports.

[Van]

I'd say that if this happens - meaning the Big XII South plus Colorado and minus Baylor relocates to the Pac 10 - it becomes official that Cal never plays in a Rose Bowl during m2's lifetime.

Dins, yes, Oregon St's and WSU's stadiums suck, but correct me if I'm wrong here: Don't Iowa St's (55K) and Baylor's (50K) stadiums also suck, relatively speaking? Kansas (50K) and K St (52K) are on the small side as well. Even Folsom Field only holds 53K. Point being, Texas and OU have been playing roadies in-conference at shit stadiums for a long time. It's only OOC that they won't do it...oh, wait...unless it means getting to play at cupcakes like Wyoming with their 32K-seat stadium or Central Florida with their 45K place.

[indyfrisco]

Would love for A&M to be in the Big 10 as I said before.

[Dinsdale]

Might wanna sharpen your pencil again, Dins. Bedlam in the Where-the-Wind-Comes-Whippin'-Down-the-Plains State means every bit as much as that annual touch football game you Audubon-types play in the U&L.

Maybe switching OSU and TT makes sense. But regardless how it comes down (if it does), one team is going to end up in a pod it doesn't want to be in... and it ain't going to be one of the PAC8ers.

ASU and UA aren't orig Pac 8, wha? none of the Pac 8 are in any pod danger in the Tech/OSU scenario.

We're both confusing.

My poorly worded point was that (I'm assuming) both TT and OSU would want to be in a pod with UT, OU, and ATM... but one gets left out and lumped in with ASU, Zona, and CU.

I was trying to make the point that the Northwest schools would obviously be a natural pod, since UO, UDub, and OS have been playing each other forever, and I'm sure want to continue to do so every year. And the Calis (the other half of the PAC8) have a natural geographical bond. But one team (under the PAC16 scenario) is going to be in a pod that they didn't want to be in -- and the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to put TT in with the Zona/ASU/CU clan.

[King Crimson]

I was trying to make the point that the Northwest schools would obviously be a natural pod, since UO, UDub, and OS have been playing each other forever, and I'm sure want to continue to do so every year. And the Calis (the other half of the PAC8) have a natural geographical bond. But one team (under the PAC16 scenario) is going to be in a pod that they didn't want to be in -- and the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to put TT in with the Zona/ASU/CU clan.

screw Tech, they are lucky as hell to even be in this thing. now, 4 years ago when they had Leach and Bob Knight...maybe. now, c'mon?

if Tech had to play 04 USC 6 times a year they'd still be getting over.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

KU's AD just resigned. Shit is really going down now.

[Degenerate]

KU's AD just resigned. Shit is really going down now.

Even better. He's going to be caretaker for another academic year. Lame duck ADs have such a great track record, after all.

Maybe you can pry Bill Self away if Izzo leaves.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

God, I hope not.

[PSUFAN]

One of the new conferences should adopt "The Big ASS Conference"...credit goes to MrT.

[Mace]

I'd say that if this happens - meaning the Big XII South plus Colorado and minus Baylor relocates to the Pac 10 - it becomes official that Cal never plays in a Rose Bowl during m2's lifetime.

Dins, yes, Oregon St's and WSU's stadiums suck, but correct me if I'm wrong here: Don't Iowa St's (55K) and Baylor's (50K) stadiums also suck, relatively speaking? Kansas (50K) and K St (52K) are on the small side as well. Even Folsom Field only holds 53K. Point being, Texas and OU have been playing roadies in-conference at shit stadiums for a long time. It's only OOC that they won't do it...oh, wait...unless it means getting to play at cupcakes like Wyoming with their 32K-seat stadium or Central Florida with their 45K place.

I've never been to Baylor's stadium but I can tell you that, while a little on the small side, Iowa State's stadium is nice. Adequate parking around the stadium, plenty of restrooms and concession stands, and it's relatively new with several updates in seating over the past few years. It's actually a pretty nice place to watch a game.....especially when the Hawkeyes are kicking their ass.

[Truman]

...Even Folsom Field only holds 53K...

In theory.

Two-thirds of those seats lay semi-permanently dormant until otherwise occupied by the every-other-year invasion of nearly half of Western Nebraska.

[Truman]

KU's AD just resigned. Shit is really going down now.

Even better. He's going to be caretaker for another academic year. Lame duck ADs have such a great track record, after all.

Maybe you can pry Bill Self away if Izzo leaves.

Funny... Given the troubles of the Big XII Left-Withouts, I had the same thought after hearing that the Cavs were courting Izzo.

[Bizzarofelice]

KU's AD just resigned. Shit is really going down now.

good. fuck that crybaby lew perkins.

[Cuda]

...Even Folsom Field only holds 53K...

In theory.

Two-thirds of those seats lay semi-permanently dormant until otherwise occupied by the every-other-year invasion of nearly half of Western Nebraska.

Beer sales would help- even at $5 a cup.