Madison protests

[trev]

Diego,

A teacher starts out making around 40K and makes on average 60K a year at 10 years teaching and it goes up from there every year to about 80,000. (That is with a lot of time off per year.)

If they don't want the teaching gig for what it is, they need to change careers. They know going in what the salary is. If they don't want to pay more for their sweet retirements, then, again, they should get into another field. They will have 200 people lined up for their jobs.

[Truman]

Only 2 1/2 pounds of pressure puts you and the rest of this Board out of our collective misery...

[Truman]

No, he LYING about the deficit.

Be that the case, then Walker is a reprobate.

He is. Next?

Ah. Then he IS just like Barry. Hook swallowed. Thanks for playing, B.

BTW, I've yet to read a take posted by you progressive, hand-wringing, big government lefty-types detailing just WHY it is so inconceivable for the Governor to ask the staties to contribute a whopping 12% of their own salaries to their own healthcare.

After all: Just imagine the pushback when those Madison Tahrir Square-types are asked to contribute to everyone else's healthcare plan too - provided Obumble's Plan is proven Constitutional. Which it isn't.

Oh snap... That's right: Unions are exempt from contributing to Barry's plan...

Pick an argument you can win, B. This one ain't it.

[BSmack]

This isn't about anybody other than the lying governor of Wisconsin.

[Diego in Seattle]

Diego,

A teacher starts out making around 40K and makes on average 60K a year at 10 years teaching and it goes up from there every year to about 80,000. (That is with a lot of time off per year.)

Perhaps in SD that's the scale for teachers....but not in a place like WI.

[BSmack]

Diego,

A teacher starts out making around 40K and makes on average 60K a year at 10 years teaching and it goes up from there every year to about 80,000. (That is with a lot of time off per year.)

If they don't want the teaching gig for what it is, they need to change careers. They know going in what the salary is. If they don't want to pay more for their sweet retirements, then, again, they should get into another field. They will have 200 people lined up for their jobs.

You think 60k a year after 10 years for a job that requires a graduate level degree is high?

Hurry up and die of AIDS already.

[Truman]

Bullshit. This isn't about anything more than you chickening out of answering a legitimate question, and getting your progressive, junky ass dragged up and down this thread.

I'll repeat for the special-ed, short bus-riding slow kids charged with tutoring Rochester-area residents: WHY it is so inconceivable for the Governor of Wisconsin to ask his state employees to contribute a whopping 12% of their own salaries to fund their own healthcare?

[BSmack]

Truman, the point is that Walker and the Wisconsin GOP reps are not just demanding wage and benefit concessions, they are also using this FAKE crisis to justify ripping the collective bargaining capabilities of the unions that did not endorse Walker. What about that don't you understand?

[Mac22]

starting salary in the 3 districts I applied for in the last two weeks, just outside of madison average about 27,000.

One other little thing about this 3 Billion dollar "shortfall." What Walker has failed to explain is that this is the amount we would be short if EVERY gov't dept in the state got all of the funds they REQUESTED for the next budget. It is only projected and only based on what the depts want, not what they will need.

[mvscal]

Gosh, there's more to the story than what the new governor initially was saying. What a surprise.

And before any of you get upset with a TPM link, the article is backed up with links to the Capitol Times of Madison and the Wisconsin fiscal bureau.

Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights

Wisconsin's new Republican governor has framed his assault on public worker's collective bargaining rights as a needed measure of fiscal austerity during tough times.

The reality is radically different. .....

The "reality" is that you are a dong slurping dumbfuck.

[Truman]

Truman, the point is that Walker and the Wisconsin GOP reps are not just demanding wage and benefit concessions, they are also using this FAKE crisis to justify ripping the collective bargaining capabilities of the unions that did not endorse Walker. What about that don't you understand?

Obfuscate much? What part of the Unions retaining their right to collectively bargain wages do YOU fail to understand?

Wrong as usual, B... The point is, you don't have the sack to answer my fucking question. The only fake crisis is the one ginned up by the something-for-nothing-ners carryin' signs on the streets of the state capitol.

[trev]

You think 60k a year after 10 years for a job that requires a graduate level degree is high?

Hurry up and die of AIDS already.

Did I say it was HIGH?? No, I did not. Obviously teachers know what the salary is before going into teachiing. Obviously, they don't go into teaching for HIGH wages. Maybe the wages are HIGH enough for them?

Hurry up and die of STUPIDITY already.

[BSmack]

Obfuscate much? What part of the Unions retaining their right to collectively bargain wages do YOU fail to understand?

Wrong and very wrong. There is no collective bargaining when the state puts an artificial cap on wages and when ONLY wages can be bargained for. Furthermore, Walker wants to end automatic dues collection and mandate a yearly vote for the union to remain certified. It's nothing more than a means to break up all the unions that didn't back Walker in the last election.

[mvscal]

Did I say it was HIGH?? No, I did not. Obviously teachers know what the salary is before going into teachiing. Obviously, they don't go into teaching for HIGH wages. Maybe the wages are HIGH enough for them?

Hurry up and die of STUPIDITY already.

Hello, trev. How are you? Moist? Aroused? Wrapped in something silky and slinky? Drapes freshly cleaned and ready for wiping? I realize that this must seem to be some sort of deviant non sequitur but I was just clutching my genitals and happened to think of you.

I'm not sure I want to imagine trev topless

This right here is simply a failure of imagination. In fact, I've had tremendous success imagining trev topless on dozens of occasions. Imagining her fishpit and buttocks hovering over my face whilst gripping her pendulous breasts and pumping geysers of DNA down her gullet has been particularly successful.

[trev]

Hi mvscal.

I'm well-seasoned. My respiratory system is in good shape. Lungs inhaling quite well.
Heart resting at a confortable 72.
Chest, disease free as far as I know.
I'm downright balmy, bright and breezy.

[Tom In VA]

starting salary in the 3 districts I applied for in the last two weeks, just outside of madison average about 27,000.

One other little thing about this 3 Billion dollar "shortfall." What Walker has failed to explain is that this is the amount we would be short if EVERY gov't dept in the state got all of the funds they REQUESTED for the next budget. It is only projected and only based on what the depts want, not what they will need.

So he is using the difference between what the depts need vs. they asked for to stir all this up, claim Wisconsin is going broke and that the unions are to blame ?

[Invictus]

Did I say it was HIGH?? No, I did not. Obviously teachers know what the salary is before going into teachiing. Obviously, they don't go into teaching for HIGH wages. Maybe the wages are HIGH enough for them?

Hurry up and die of STUPIDITY already.

Hello, trev. How are you? Moist? Aroused? Wrapped in something silky and slinky? Drapes freshly cleaned and ready for wiping? I realize that this must seem to be some sort of deviant non sequitur but I was just clutching my genitals and happened to think of you.

I'm not sure I want to imagine trev topless

This right here is simply a failure of imagination. In fact, I've had tremendous success imagining trev topless on dozens of occasions. Imagining her fishpit and buttocks hovering over my face whilst gripping her pendulous breasts and pumping geysers of DNA down her gullet has been particularly successful.

I should take umbrage with such language being used in the presence of my interwebs wife but this is very funny.

Forgive me for laughing trevortime.

[War Wagon]

This right here is simply a failure of imagination. In fact, I've had tremendous success imagining trev topless on dozens of occasions. Imagining her fishpit and buttocks hovering over my face whilst gripping her pendulous breasts and pumping geysers of DNA down her gullet has been particularly successful.

[OCmike]

Obfuscate much? What part of the Unions retaining their right to collectively bargain wages do YOU fail to understand?

Wrong and very wrong. There is no collective bargaining when the state puts an artificial cap on wages and when ONLY wages can be bargained for. Furthermore, Walker wants to end automatic dues collection and mandate a yearly vote for the union to remain certified. It's nothing more than a means to break up all the unions that didn't back Walker in the last election.

Be honest... What do you perceive to be fair compensation for the average government worker? $50k/year median wage plus free healthcare and a free pension? We've got a "rising tides lifts all boats" workers' paradise here now in CA. It ain't workin out so well.

[OCmike]

And very often one of the first things private business does during lean times is to obtain a line of credit that will allow it to operate until it can make a profit again. But a state government is not allowed this luxury.

Not true at all. California operated for years under a system where they secured short term loans and paid them off as tax dollars rolled in. Then got another loan, then paid it off. Then our credit rating was downgraded after union freebies, giveaways and entitlements grew to unsustainable levels and we chased off a large portion of our tax base. Now no one understandably wants to loan us a dime, so the house of cards is just waiting for a 1mph breeze to come along and knock it all down.

On the plus side, we have the answer to the progressive's pipedream: "Gee, wouldn't it be great if everyone was paid lots of money?" No, it fucking sucks.

[smackaholic]

You think 60k a year after 10 years for a job that requires a graduate level degree is high?

Hurry up and die of AIDS already.

Did I say it was HIGH?? No, I did not. Obviously teachers know what the salary is before going into teachiing. Obviously, they don't go into teaching for HIGH wages. Maybe the wages are HIGH enough for them?

Hurry up and die of STUPIDITY already.

rack trev.

teaching does not pay a whole lot. what it does is provide a very steady career with ample time off and a gold plated pension plan. and sorry, but it does not "require" a grad degree. infact, a bachelor's degree will get you hired in most places. most edumacation systems have made master's degrees a requirement. and they have done this for one fukking reason, as a tool to squeeze tax payers for higher wages. fukk them and their master's degrees. we are tired of getting squeezed.

[Diego in Seattle]

You think 60k a year after 10 years for a job that requires a graduate level degree is high?

Hurry up and die of AIDS already.

Did I say it was HIGH?? No, I did not. Obviously teachers know what the salary is before going into teachiing. Obviously, they don't go into teaching for HIGH wages. Maybe the wages are HIGH enough for them?

Hurry up and die of STUPIDITY already.

and sorry, but it does not "require" a grad degree. infact, a bachelor's degree will get you hired in most places. most edumacation systems have made master's degrees a requirement.

Yeah, I'd be bitter towards the teaching profession like you if I had your "edumacation."

[smackaholic]

Yeah, I'd be bitter towards the teaching profession like you if I had your "edumacation."

my bad. lemme clarify that for you.

school systems in this neck of the woods anyway, will hire a bachelor's degree kid out of college, no problem. so, they are in effect saying that it's cool such an educated person to teach our kids, even if they have very little experience.

they do however require them to achieve their master's within a certain time frame.

does this allow them to teach higher level courses? does it allow them to teach unsupervised?

no. nothing changes. they just got more letters on the end of their name and more importantly get more jack!!!

and that's what it all comes down to, getting more jack.

if a master's was required to teach, it would be required, from the start.

but this would mean an extra coupla years of edumacatin' on the front end before they could get on the gubmint teat and start counting down years till their pensions. better they get on the teat right quick like and use their summers to do whatever the fukk it is they do for a Master's.

if we really were interested in getting decent bang for the buck in primary education, we'd drop education level requirements to what they were back in the dark ages.

wolfie, what were the requirements when you got started? i remember some of my older HS teachers saying they went to 2 year "teacher's colleges" prolly in the fitties. you remember that time, when the US led the planet in primary education.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

[Truman]

There is no collective bargaining when the state puts an artificial cap on wages and when ONLY wages can be bargained for.

Keep telling yourself that and even you might start to believe it.

So in other words, state employee salaries are sacrosanct and should never be subject to whims of the economy or the vote of the electorate. Gotcha. Quick question, B: Who do these state employees work for? The People of the State of Wisconsin? Or the Union? BTW, since when is the Consumer Price Index an artificial cap?

Furthermore, Walker wants to end automatic dues collection and mandate a yearly vote for the union to remain certified.

So? You write this as if it’s a bad thing. Meanwhile 6,000 of the rank-and-file are spared permanent furlough if they would just simply agree to tighten their belts a bit.

Would you prefer Walker pull a Reagan and fire all these rabble-rousing ingrates? From what I’ve read, it seems that there are more than enough teachers – laid-off or otherwise - in surrounding states more than willing to pull stakes for a shot at $50K per and a benefits package that would vastly improve their current situation.

It's nothing more than a means to break up all the unions that didn't back Walker in the last election.

“Elections have consequences.” - B.H. Obama

[trev]

Rack smackaholic.

Why on earth does a 6th grade PE teacher need a masters degree?? To get more jack. It's not going to make them a better PE teacher.

[BSmack]

So in other words, state employee salaries are sacrosanct and should never be subject to whims of the economy or the vote of the electorate. Gotcha.

No you don't get it. The unions were willing to accept Walker's benefit and wage demands for this contract. Never mind that Walker's budget crisis is a LIE, they were still willing to bargain with him. What is and should always be unacceptable is removing forevermore the right to bargain collectively for benefits and working conditions and to limit salary increases to a predetermined limit. If you can't understand that, then we are just pissing in the wind here.

[Diego in Seattle]

Rack smackaholic.

Why on earth does a 6th grade PE teacher need a masters degree?? To get more jack. It's not going to make them a better PE teacher.

I dunno...maybe to get promoted into an administrative job?

Tell us, does it hurt to be that stupid?

[trev]

Rack smackaholic.

Why on earth does a 6th grade PE teacher need a masters degree?? To get more jack. It's not going to make them a better PE teacher.

I dunno...maybe to get promoted into an administrative job?

Tell us, does it hurt to be that stupid?

Bwah! You are truly dense about this subject. Eject.

[smackaholic]

Rack smackaholic.

Why on earth does a 6th grade PE teacher need a masters degree?? To get more jack. It's not going to make them a better PE teacher.

I dunno...maybe to get promoted into an administrative job?

Tell us, does it hurt to be that stupid?

so....the purpose of a 6th grade PE teacher is admin. training?

funny, i thought it was to hand out kick balls and blow whistles.

as for the education admin racket, let's not even go there. the majority of these fukks need to be fired.

[LTS TRN 2]

But the Wisconsin high school teachers graduate about 90% of their students, compared to about 70% for the rest of the country. They should be getting a raise. But look who these union-busting assholes are really going after...firefighters, police officers, nurses. It's obscene to listen to the blathering sour gas of Rusp Limpdick as he carries the torch for the Koch brothers and their 19th-century model for workers and their rights.

The very idea of abolishing collective bargaining is an insult to all Americans. The governor Walker has been shown to have manipulated--and caused--the so-called budget crisis in the first place.

Why are you fatuous frauds marching along with the Tea Baggers? You keep forgetting to mention.

[Mac22]

for those of you that think the pension is a free ride... 50% is paid in by the teachers. The school district cover the other half.
As for health, I was paying $150 a month for medical, $40 a month for dental, and $15 a month for eye coverage. ended up just dropping the last two since paying cash at both places once a year ends up to be cheaper.

someone tell me again how this is worlds better than everyone else? my wife works at a software company making 3X more than me, and pays in about the same for all healthcare for herself. (and her pension is better than mine)

[trev]

Her pension is better? Do they do better than match what she puts in? Do tell.

[smackaholic]

for those of you that think the pension is a free ride... 50% is paid in by the teachers. The school district cover the other half.
As for health, I was paying $150 a month for medical, $40 a month for dental, and $15 a month for eye coverage. ended up just dropping the last two since paying cash at both places once a year ends up to be cheaper.

someone tell me again how this is worlds better than everyone else? my wife works at a software company making 3X more than me, and pays in about the same for all healthcare for herself. (and her pension is better than mine)

wow. your OL must have a really good union.

or does she just have a marketable fukking skill?

[BSmack]

or does she just have a marketable fukking skill?

I can't help but notice the implication that the ability to TEACH YOUR CHILDREN is not a "marketable skill." We are truly fucked.

[Arch Angel]

But the Wisconsin high school teachers graduate about 90% of their students, compared to about 70% for the rest of the country. They should be getting a raise. But look who these union-busting assholes are really going after...firefighters, police officers, nurses. It's obscene to listen to the blathering sour gas of Rusp Limpdick as he carries the torch for the Koch brothers and their 19th-century model for workers and their rights.

The very idea of abolishing collective bargaining is an insult to all Americans. The governor Walker has been shown to have manipulated--and caused--the so-called budget crisis in the first place.

Why are you fatuous frauds marching along with the Tea Baggers? You keep forgetting to mention.

I knew you were stupid, but gosh, you are really stupid.

The firefighters and police are exempt and the nurses are not part of this union.

Get your facts straight, you fucking Muzzie loving idiot.

[packwin13]

As for health, I was paying $150 a month for medical

my wife works at a software company making 3X more than me, and pays in about the same for all healthcare for herself. (and her pension is better than mine)

How do the deductibles, copays, and coinsurance compare between the two plans? If your plan has much lower deductibles and copays, then that probably means that your employer is kicking in a lot higher % of the actual plan cost than the company the Mrs. works for.

The last time I checked, the teachers in the state of WI had one of the better health plans out there within the state. That was back in '07, so the gap could have closed since then. After seeing what my dad and father in law paid for COBRA after they were laid off, $150/mo was a drop in the bucket compared to what the plan actually cost per month.

I thought the 2010 elections were pretty intense within the state, but 2012 is going to be VERY interesting. The mudslinging on both sides should reach a whole new low

[Truman]

No you don't get it. The unions were willing to accept Walker's benefit and wage demands for this contract. Never mind that Walker's budget crisis is a LIE, they were still willing to bargain with him. What is and should always be unacceptable is removing forevermore the right to bargain collectively for benefits and working conditions and to limit salary increases to a predetermined limit. If you can't understand that, then we are just pissing in the wind here.

Get what?! The fact that you just posted a horseshit take defending a horseshit position?! No, I get that just fine...

The Unions are willing to accept Walker’s wage and benefit demands? Then why are there 70,000 of those losers lining the streets of Madison six days deep? The only LIE here is the failure of you and whole slew of government cheese sucking malcontents acknowledging that the state is destined for fiscal Armageddon unless folks agree to grab an oar and pull for the common good of their state.

Did you ever go to school with budding teachers in college, B? Did they ever impress you that they were all that much better than you? Advance degrees? In Education, for God’s sake?! Neato. All that tells me is that they weren’t forced to graduate with their Bachelors like the rest of us were to feed our families.

I know teachers. I went to school with teachers. They were dumbasses then... And they’re dumbasses now. Two-thirds of ‘em would be run screaming from this Board. Don’t get me wrong – I’ve had some terrific professors. But for the most part... They’re asshats. Iodots. And I remind my kids of this daily. Fabulous, you can follow a State Board’s curricula. But it doesn’t make you any better than the citizenry you serve... And it sure as hell doesn’t make you worthy of a Cadillac health plan at the expense of the electorate.

So the teachers will now be presented with the same types of benefit choices presented to us in the Private Sector. So their salaries will be determined by whatever the market will bear. Yet you attack such decision-making as if it were a war crime.

If you can’t understand balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility, then you need to move to another country.

[Screw_Michigan]

Did you ever go to school with budding teachers in college, B? Did they ever impress you that they were all that much better than you? Advance degrees? In Education, for God’s sake?! Neato. All that tells me is that they weren’t forced to graduate with their Bachelors like the rest of us were to feed our families.

I know teachers. I went to school with teachers. They were dumbasses then... And they’re dumbasses now. Two-thirds of ‘em would be run screaming from this Board.

I feel sorry for you, your children, the KC metropolitan area and the citizens of the state of Missouri. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Dr_Phibes]

If that's the degree people are willing to tear each other apart over 'who gets the pension', fucking hell