Mr. Tebow

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:32 am

poptart wrote:
mvscal wrote:Tebow is the best QB he's (Fox) got.
It seems very hard to believe that Orton isn't better.

And by all accounts Brady Quinn beat Tebow out for the #2 spot. If Tebow wasn't trademarked, there's no way he's their next go-to guy. This is strictly a case of an embattled coach giving in to a local fanbase's myopic fantasies.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:36 am

Ok, let's assume for a second every single player on Denver's offense is godawful (despite the fact Cam Newton and Andy Daulton aren't exactly working with future HOFers, and they seem to be doing just fine), how does one explain Tebow's individual ineptitude? Throwing behind receivers, even when he has time. No touch on his deep ball. Little to no instincts in the pocket, except running like a chicken with its head cut off when the heat comes, or wildly throwing it down-field to nobody in particular. How does somebody explain all that? There isn't any explaining it. You either recognize it for what it is, or bury your head in the sand and act like it isn't happening, or act like it isn't an issue.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:44 am

Mgo wrote:Ok, let's assume for a second every single player on Denver's offense is godawful (despite the fact Cam Newton and Andy Daulton aren't exactly working with future HOFers, and they seem to be doing just fine), how does one explain Tebow's individual ineptitude?

How badass do you think you would look if you had to play an NFL game immediately following three days in a cave being dead? As far as we know, He didn't even get any ice-therapy for all those nagging sword wounds.

Seriously, this is like some Curt Shilling shit.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:39 am

van, I asked this once before and so I'll ask it again....what's with this obsessive hatred of tebow?

why do you care so much?

R-Jack wrote:Goddamn Felix, wipe your chin.

is there some part of "I'm not a big tebow fan" you're trying to get a handle on here bud?

I've said all along I thought that drafting tebow was stupid, especially given the glaring weaknesses they have at so many other positions....but that's water under the bridge, so denver fans have got to live with it....denver's season is lost, so let find out if the guy has anything (other than a brilliant pr guy) going for him

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:20 am

Van wrote:So, are you ever going to spell out the details of this Pollyanna schedule you've laid out for Tebow's success? This is now the third time I've asked you to delineate the timeframe and criteria you're applying to this guy before you'll finally admit that he never had any business being given an NFL QB gig.

Let's hear it. Spell it out.

I did that on the thread following last year's draft. Nothing has changed my opinion since then. Maybe you can put your bandwagon in reverse and look it up.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:27 am

Felix wrote:what's with this obsessive hatred of tebow?

atheists have this tendency to try and one up each other.

Best get your shots in now.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:02 am

Felix, it's nothing like hatred. I'm sure he's a good guy. And like I said, if I were running a certain type of college program, he'd be right near the top of my QB 'want' list.

My issue with Tebow is strictly the unwarranted hype. He is no different than Barack Obama, Justin Bieber or Britney Spears. He's pure 'product' who has no business being in the position he's been given. In a world where people with true talent and serious resumes are constantly afforded short shrift in favor of Oprah/MTV/ESPN lowest common denominator tripe, yeah, I root for those types to be revealed as the frauds they are.

It always comes back to this: If Barack Obama were a pudgy, middle-aged white guy from Des Moines named Bernie Sanders or a balding Asian dude from Seattle named Kim Choi, would we even know he exists right now? Would Oprah and the Democratic machine have decided to make such an unqualified empty suit their standard bearer?

Of course not. He wouldn't have landed his seat in the Senate, and no one within the party would've pushed to make him their presidential nominee.

By that same token, if Tim Tebow were a tatted up black guy with dreads and a love of hiphop, would ESPN have ever created his legend? Would Denver have wasted a first-round pick on him, and would their fans clamor for him to be given the starting job?

Again, of course not. He's where he is now strictly due to a manufactured image. I can't root for that.

mvscal, as you well know, all those old threads were lost during the KatyPerk Coup. So, go ahead and humor us with your schedule for Tebow. Criteria and timeframe, please. You're the one who keeps saying he's playing right on your schedule, so state that schedule for the record here in the NFL forum.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:48 am

http://digitalsportsdaily.com/nfl/draft ... tebow.html

Here is a selection of some of mock drafts, that project where Tebow will end up.

Two USA TODAY Draft analysts project Tebow as the No. 30th overall pick of the Minnesota Vikings

Peter King of Sports Illustrated projects Tebow will be drafted 30th overall to the Vikings.

Walterfootball.com projects Tebow as the 41st pick overall by the Buffalo Bills

Bill Simmons of ESPN has Jacksonville taking Tebow 24th overall via a fake trade

ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. predicts Tebow will go 30th overall to the Minnesota Vikings

MyNFLDraft.com projects Tebow as the 41st pick by the Buffalo Bills.

Charles Davis of NFL.com projects Tebow as the 32nd pick by the New Orleans Saints.

Peter King, Charles Davis, Mel Kiper, Bill Simmons...

Van, there were plenty of "reputable" people who thought Tebow was good enough to go late 1st, early 2nd, in the '10 draft.
Others thought he was middle round material.
He was definitely an NFL QB prospect.

Dungver reached for him where they took him, imo, but I think someone was going to think he was worth a shot by the 2nd or 3rd round, at least.

Unwarranted media hype?

Oh, for sure.

Hey, it's not Tebow's fault that K. Orton couldn't do squat and was deserving of a seat.
It's also not his fault that B. Quinn isn't much of an option.

He got pushed into duty before he was really ready to give it a go, I think.
But I think it's a little disingenous to take it as far as you are taking it - by saying he has no business, and so-forth.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:37 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Tebow looked good on Denver's first possession. A good scramble and a couple nicely throw balls down field, one of which was called an incompletion in the end zone, which I actually thought was a TD. Then it was all downhill from there. Same deal as last outing - awful for 99% of the game, which is going to result in resounding defeat 99% of the time in the NFL.

That first possession had to be scripted for him because he seemed to know where to go with the ball and he actually looked like a functional QB. The rest of the game, he looked like a deer in the headlights when the Lions would collapse the pocket on him, he stand there frozen not knowing what to do. Once again, his best production was in garbage time...he less than 100 total yards for most of the game until they finally got that TD to Decker. He won't succeed until he can grasp the basics of the passing game. Considering how big the passing game is in the NFL...how many successful teams don't have functional passing QBs? To Harbaugh's credit, he's at least seemed to turn Smith's career around this year. In college, he was a man amongst boys but in the NFL, he's a boy amongst men. He was able to rally against a team with a bad defense and an offense that could only get two touchdowns...the Lions exposed him and his team. He's a long way away from being anything worth a damn.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:27 am

War Wagon wrote:
atheists have this tendency to try and one up each other.
Best get your shots in now.

wags, his religious views have no influence on my opinion of the guy one way or the other.....he can believe in yeti's or flying space monkeys for all I care

Van wrote:My issue with Tebow is strictly the unwarranted hype. He is no different than Barack Obama, Justin Bieber or Britney Spears. He's pure 'product' who has no business being in the position he's been given. In a world where people with true talent and serious resumes are constantly afforded short shrift in favor of Oprah/MTV/ESPN lowest common denominator tripe, yeah, I root for those types to be revealed as the frauds they are.

if he can't help denver win, he'll be looking for a new line of work soon enough....again, the NFL isn't like a 4th grade class picking sides for a game of soccer and he's the most popular kid who always gets picked first....it's strictly a what have you done for me lately-how many games have you helped us win type business.....the hype is almost exclusively generated by the press and echoed by the public....

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:00 pm

He's a good enough athlete to play in the NFL but not as a QB. He's got too much pride (isn't that a deadly sin?) to change positions and prove how good a teammate he is and try to help his team in another way. The guy could be an H-back or TE. Tight ends can make a 10-year career out of catching one or two passes a game and run blocking. You can't tell me he couldn't do what Scheffler did yesterday for the Lions...make a couple grabs and punch one into the end zone.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:24 pm

Shoalzie wrote:The guy could be an H-back or TE. Tight ends can make a 10-year career out of catching one or two passes a game and run blocking. You can't tell me he couldn't do what Scheffler did yesterday for the Lions...make a couple grabs and punch one into the end zone.

unless he can eliminate the technical difficulties he's having at the QB position, that's where I'd expect him to land.....if his ego doesn't coincide with the team's needs, he'll be looking for work pretty quickly....although the phenomena of tebow is probably good for an extra year or two....

the cat sells lots of jerseys...why is anybody's guess

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:36 pm

Papa Willie wrote:Wow. Tebow really sucked. :D

I thought Van might be being a bit harsh on him, but - well - maybe not!

not based on that performance against the Lions....I knew Detroit would win, but in such a humiliating fashion???? at the start of the 4th quarter the fans looked like they'd been hit in the head with a cattle prod

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:45 pm

As bad as he looked against Detroit, he looked even worse against Miami for the vast majority of the game. Like Mgo correctly pointed out, being horrible 99% of the time in the NFL means you'll lose 99% of the time. Miracle finishes against Miami only occur against truly awful teams like Miami. The rest of the time, those deficits his shitty play keeps creating only become larger deficits, until the thing is well out of hand.

Count on the rule, not the exception.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:02 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=m ... les_103111

Opponent: Tebow experiment is ‘embarrassing’

“Can you believe ’15’?” one Detroit Lions defender asked after his team’s 45-10 immolation of Tebow and the Denver Broncos. “Come on – that’s embarrassing. I mean, it’s a joke. We knew all week that if we brought any kind of defensive pressure, he couldn’t do anything. In the second half it got boring out there. We were like, ‘Come on – that’s your quarterback? Seriously?’ ”

It would be one thing if this particular defender could be written off as an outlier, but during the time I spent in the Lions’ locker room after the game – and, later, on the phone with various coaches, front-office executives and players around the league – similarly harsh assessments were uttered about the second-year quarterback making his second start of the 2011 season.

Words like atrocious, terrible, completely exposed and not even close to ready kept coming up in these conversations; a couple of Lions even used the term oh my god.

mvscal wrote:

"REMAIN CALM! HE'S ON SCHEDULE! HE'S ON SCHEDULE!"

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:08 pm

In all fairness to Tebow, Christians vs. Lions has never been a good matchup for the pro-Jesus folk.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:46 pm

There's a reason why I hate football talk/media coverage during the week...same tired ass manufactured contraversy and topics. The Tebow story will never die because of the (unnecessary) amount of attention he gets and the clash between the haters/rational football fans vs. the blindly loyal fanboys. I don't want see his mopey mug on the front page of NFL.com. He should be a buried story after Sunday's abortion of a performance.

The build up to the next Broncos game is inevitably going to be "will he rebound or continue to flop?". My money is pushed all in on flop. The "virgin" was gangbanged by the Lions on network TV and they still want to talk about if he can be salvagable. For as bad as he's been, anything is an improvement as long as his QB rating doesn't dip below his yards per carry and the number of times he's sacked isn't dwarfing the number of completions. How about you do something before garbage time in the fourth quarter?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:59 pm

Van wrote: Opponent: Tebow experiment is ‘embarrassing’

that's rich, considering that in past years, the entire Lions team was considered by most fans of the NFL to be an embarrassment to the league....this coming from a player who's franchise has amassed a total of 0 winning seasons since 2001.....a team who in 2008 were able to set the standard of futility in the NFL by going an amazing 0-16...you mean those Detroit Lions?

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:37 pm

Yes, Felix, those Detroit Lions, which should give you some idea of just how bad Tebow really is then, right? Also keep in mind that the author said he later spoke to a number of coaches, players and upper-management types from around the league who all echoed the same sentiments.

I wish I could find it now, but I saw some stat yesterday that rates a QB in a slightly different manner than the usual QB rating we always see these days. This one grades QBs on a 1-100 scale, with 100 being best. Using this chart to rank all of Tebow's starting NFL performances, the results were simply amazing. His score has gone down in every single one. He's literally getting worse each time he takes the field. His high was a middling 50-something, then it's been a straight plummeting to this past week's performance, which graded out as a 3!

The guy was making the case that Tebow might have had the worst performance-arc ever recorded. It was just brutal.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:48 pm

Van wrote:
The guy was making the case that Tebow might have had the worst performance ever recorded.

not even close....

no player from detroit should be issuing any statements about how another player performed regardless of how abysmal it might have been...

rocks and glass houses...

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:53 pm

You posted your response while I was editing my sentence to more accurately reflect what the guy was saying, which was that Tebow may be in the midst of the worst performance-arc ever recorded. It's Tebow's consistent downward spiral from what was already only a meh starting point that the guy was pointing out, culminating in this past week's truly abysmal score.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:23 am

How does anything prior to this year, matter when discussing a QB who played an awful game last week?

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:44 am

Use whatever sample of NFL games you wish. The author's point was simply the uninterrupted arc of declining performances.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:54 am

Sounds like a classic case of the Peter Principle.

:)

Rai'duhs up this week.

Might be time for that principle to reverse - like the Red Sea.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:55 pm

Killian wrote:How does anything prior to this year, matter when discussing a QB who played an awful game last week?

Nothing. Last I checked Suh, Fairley, Stafford, Johnson, Young, etc., weren't part of the core of those awful Lions teams. But to to Van's point, if the Lions WERE terrible, doesn't that just reinforce how bad that would look for Tebow? If an "awful" team was calling Denver's qb a "joke?"

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:17 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:if the Lions WERE terrible, doesn't that just reinforce how bad that would look for Tebow? If an "awful" team was calling Denver's qb a "joke?"

but the lions arent' terrible, they're a pretty good team...
I just think it's wrong for detroit players to be singling out a player from an opposing team that the Lions just shithammered into the ground...that's just bad form IMHO

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:11 pm

Felix wrote:
Van wrote:
The guy was making the case that Tebow might have had the worst performance ever recorded.
not even close....

no player from detroit should be issuing any statements about how another player performed regardless of how abysmal it might have been...

rocks and glass houses...

The bottom line is Detroit was never that bad, sure they finished 0-16, but didn't get to play the 2011 Miami quitters. The Bolts 1-15 team sucked to high heaven with the likes of Jim Harbaugh & Ryan Leaf at QB, and they weren't as hard to watch as Tebow either. Anyway my point isn't whose the worst ever, only that Tebow ranks among the worst.

Denver fan needs to come to grips, Tebow is horrible and an embassassment.

Just putting the Teblow question to bed. He's not a NFL QB & never will be. The Broncos should make him an H-back/TE/special teams/emergency 3rd QB and move on.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:28 pm

Joe in PB wrote: Denver fan needs to come to grips, Tebow is horrible and an embassassment.

Just putting the Teblow question to bed. He's not a NFL QB & never will be. The Broncos should make him an H-back/TE/special teams/emergency 3rd QB and move on.

most denver fans I know agree that tebow is terrible...it's non-denver people that seem to be having the hardest time with him starting...I said before the season ever started that denver was going to suck monkey cack and guess what...I was right....orton is a better QB, but that fucker quit about the third game in, so he's done....in my opinion he should never take another snap unless an emergency dictates it

the season is gone and every denver fan knows it....Fox (at Elway's insistence I'm sure) is going to keep playing tebow (and milking the press and reaping the profits from jersey sales) until such time that
a. the press stops covering it
b. the public stops caring

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." Oscar Wilde

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:45 pm

Felix wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:if the Lions WERE terrible, doesn't that just reinforce how bad that would look for Tebow? If an "awful" team was calling Denver's qb a "joke?"
but the lions arent' terrible, they're a pretty good team...
I just think it's wrong for detroit players to be singling out a player from an opposing team that the Lions just shithammered into the ground...that's just bad form IMHO

But it's not just the Lions, it's multiple players from multiple teams.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:54 pm

Killian wrote:
But it's not just the Lions, it's multiple players from multiple teams.

so what is that you (not specifically you) want?

do you want Fox to bench him?
do you want Denver to cut him?
do you want Fox to start Quinn?
do you want them to move him to an H-back?
do you want Denver to run him out of town on a rail?
do you want Tim Tebow's head on a platter?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:43 pm

I don't give a fuck what Denver does, they're the ones stuck with him for the remainder of the year.

What I want, is for all these douchebag commentators to stop fellating him everytime he throws a wobbly 15 yard reception that the WR has to dislocate his shoulders to catch. I want the media to step up and say "You know what, we were all wrong. For as good as he was in college, this guy does blow."

Most of all, I want internet posters who jumped on some stupid bandwaggon to either admit they were wrong, or just stop posting about Tebow. For the record, you're not the bandwaggon jumper I am talking about.

I know none of that will happen, but it's what I want.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:38 pm

Killian wrote:
Felix wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:if the Lions WERE terrible, doesn't that just reinforce how bad that would look for Tebow? If an "awful" team was calling Denver's qb a "joke?"
but the lions arent' terrible, they're a pretty good team...
I just think it's wrong for detroit players to be singling out a player from an opposing team that the Lions just shithammered into the ground...that's just bad form IMHO
But it's not just the Lions, it's multiple players from multiple teams.

And the fact that so many NFL players are breaking protocol to slam the performance of a guy who isn't being accused of jaking it should tell you that something unusual is going on here. Tebow really is that bad.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:52 pm

Felix wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:if the Lions WERE terrible, doesn't that just reinforce how bad that would look for Tebow? If an "awful" team was calling Denver's qb a "joke?"
but the lions arent' terrible, they're a pretty good team...
I just think it's wrong for detroit players to be singling out a player from an opposing team that the Lions just shithammered into the ground...that's just bad form IMHO

If that was actually your point, it certainly wasn't evident in this statement:

that's rich, considering that in past years, the entire Lions team was considered by most fans of the NFL to be an embarrassment to the league....this coming from a player who's franchise has amassed a total of 0 winning seasons since 2001.....a team who in 2008 were able to set the standard of futility in the NFL by going an amazing 0-16...you mean those Detroit Lions?

or this one:

no player from detroit should be issuing any statements about how another player performed regardless of how abysmal it might have been...

It seemed pretty clear you were implying Detroit had no business mocking Tebow because of their (past) futility.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:19 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
It seemed pretty clear you were implying Detroit had no business mocking Tebow because of their (past) futility.

that wasn't the point at all....what I was saying is that if anybody should sympathetic to the plight of someone going through a tough time, it should be the members of a franchise that was pretty dismal not too long ago.....I just don't see the point in verbally hammering a guy whose team you just annihilated...

didn't they say everything that needed to be said on the field?

unless you subscribe to the philosophy that it's best to kick a man when he's down because he might get back up

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:35 pm

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/ ... post-tebow

If anyone wants to see teh funnay, read the comments at the end of this article. They are doing a "________ > Tebow" thread and it's pretty fucking funny.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:50 pm

Felix wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
It seemed pretty clear you were implying Detroit had no business mocking Tebow because of their (past) futility.
that wasn't the point at all....what I was saying is that if anybody should sympathetic to the plight of someone going through a tough time, it should be the members of a franchise that was pretty dismal not too long ago.

:?

Either way though, Detroit shouldn't be doing that because they also sucked for a long time. Your response is splitting hairs.

Let me guess, you're the type of guy who wastes his time getting pissed over post game handshakes. I don't get why anyone gives a fuck what happens before/after the 60 minutes on the field. I couldn't care less how someone acts during their own personal time. They could be hanging out with cancer patients or getting high and fucking strippers. To either extreme, I just don't care. Who cares if the Lions aren't sympathetic enough for your liking... Jesus fucking Christ, Nancy, hike up your skirt.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:17 pm

Felix wrote:that wasn't the point at all....what I was saying is that if anybody should sympathetic to the plight of someone going through a tough time, it should be the members of a franchise that was pretty dismal not too long ago.....I just don't see the point in verbally hammering a guy whose team you just annihilated...

So in other words, the Lions shouldn't run their mouths because they used to suck. Yeah, that's what I thought you said.

didn't they say everything that needed to be said on the field?

Yeah, but you know how it goes. Players don't volunteer this stuff, they get a dozen mics stuffed in their faces, and sometimes they let out a little brutal honesty instead of the usual cliches.

Tebow's a big boy. He can handle it.

Bucmonkey · Post by **Bucmonkey** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:25 pm

Killian wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/ ... post-tebow

If anyone wants to see teh funnay, read the comments at the end of this article. They are doing a "________ > Tebow" thread and it's pretty fucking funny.

matthartey
Michael J. Fox's Jenga playing skills > Tebow

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:55 pm

Killian wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/ ... post-tebow

If anyone wants to see teh funnay, read the comments at the end of this article. They are doing a "________ > Tebow" thread and it's pretty fucking funny.

“We are embarrassed,” Denver tight end Daniel Fells said.

Added the always-earnest Tebow: “I’m just going to get up early [Monday] and go to work and try to get better tomorrow and consistently improve and be the best person and quarterback for this organization and continue to improve.”

I half expect to hear Tebow's bit spoken in that clipped, robotic monotone Jim Rome creates when piecing together clichéd quotes from Tiger Woods.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:12 pm

"Catching your dad blowing your boyfriend > Tebow"