Mr. Tebow

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:12 am

All touchdowns are worth six points. He has passed for 12 and run for 8...in 7 games as a starter. That projects to a little over 40 TDs in a full season. That's not too shabby for a guy who doesn't belong in the league, wouldn't you say?

Oh...of course you wouldn't. You don't have an intellectually honest bone in your body.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:39 am

Van wrote:

Oh, wait. That's right, he's not a rookie. He doesn't even have that excuse.

look dude, we get it...you think tebow is a failure.....not much more to say about it, unless you can present me with a credible argument as to why another QB should be starting instead...do you think denver would have a better record with orton or quinn starting? if so, lay out your arguments, I'll square them in the nads, and we'll be done with it....

if not, shut the fuck up...trust me, we get it

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:56 am

Van wrote:a Kyle Boller-led Raiders minus Darren McFadden

Just to set the record straight - that was a brain fart by you, Van.

Oakland was without McFadden, but it was Palmer's first start.

The Raiders scored 24 pts - the Tebow-led Doncs scored 38.

I'd like to join your choir, but unfortunately, Tebow and 38 pts won't really allow me to.

He got it done that day, Oakland didn't.

That's known as BODE around here.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:57 pm

His O-Line got it done that day, and yes, that was the one game where he passably looked like he may have belonged. The other three? Not a chance. This most recent one? Straight up embarrassing.

Felix, before you jump on me with your "We get it, Van, now shut up," I'll remind you that I'd stayed out of this one following the joke of a KC game. That is, until mvscal came a' trollin' with this...

That's odd. We were all assured that Tebow was only capable of 3 yard dink and dunk passes. There must be some mistake.

...on the heels of a 2-8 performance.

So, unless you're going to apply your feigned righteous indignation equally across the board, go ahead and stuff it.

pop, right, the Chiefs was the Boller/Palmer game. My bad.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:58 pm

We get it, Van, now what are you going to do when Tim Tebow dies for your sins?

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:04 pm

Well, then I suppose I'll have to break down and sport one of these...

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:28 pm

Well, that beats Van dying for Tebowing sins.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Van wrote:So, unless you're going to apply your feigned righteous indignation equally across the board, go ahead and stuff it.

look I'm not trying to change your mind about tebow and far be it from me to try and quash your opinion....you've given your honest assessment and that's fine....all I'm asking you what alternative does denver have at this point?

let me answer that for you....none....

so for denver fans like it or not, tebow is our qb for the foreseeable future, for better or worse....
(the latter I fear is coming)

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:50 am

Since Brady Quinn beat Tebow out for the second-string slot, who's to say that he isn't at least a better option?

In any case, it's nice to see that when mvscal isn't stuck trolling his ever-lovin' ass off in defense of this one stupid albatross, he does retain a modicum of football sense and perspective...

Correctly hammering the nail in the coffin of any realistic hope Denver has in succeeding while Tebow is handling the playbook, mvscal wrote:Who gives a fat, fucking rat cock about a running game? They're (Green Bay) averaging 102 yards a game which is more than enough considering they have one of the most efficient passing attacks in NFL history. They lead the league in every meaningful passing category; passer rating (129.1), completion percentage (72.8 ) and touchdowns (28).

You might want to update your football philosophy there, caveman. The running game is meaningless in a championship context and has been for years. If you want to win a championship in the 21st century you have to be able to pass and defend the pass.

...and also...

Who gives a fuck? The Eagles and Broncos are leading the league in rushing. How's that workin out for them?

Hate to see otherwise smart, reliable posters troll. I much prefer sharp, sensible, hasn't-backed-himself-into-an-indefensible-corner mvscal.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:59 am

Van wrote:Since Brady Quinn beat Tebow out for the second-string slot,

I really hate to have to point out the obvious here, but Brady Quinn hasn't taken a snap this year, so the only thing he has beaten is his meat...and perhaps the meat of several of his workout buddies.

You can't be this stupid....can you?

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:14 am

Coming out of camp, Brady Quinn was the designated second-string QB. Tebow was marginally third-string. Considering how badly Fox has had to pare down the playbook in order to give Tebow a chance at executing even just small portions of it, yeah, maybe he should've stuck with Plan B and given Quinn the shot he earned in camp.

We all know that Tebow only leapfrogged him due to his public persona feeding the outcries of a delirious fanbase. Tebow's play did nothing to merit a promotion. Had he been named Derek Anderson instead of Tim Tebow he never would've gotten that visor off his head.

Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:25 am

Van wrote:Coming out of camp, Brady Quinn was the designated second-string QB.

Who gives a fuck? When the shit hit the fan, Tebow is the one they turned to not Quinn.

There isn't a single coach in the NFL, no matter how inept, who makes decisions based on based on public opinion or fan outcry.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:48 am

Nonsense. In this instance Fox and Denver clearly did, and it's not even debatable. Again, if Tebow had been named Derek Anderson or John David Booty and his play during camp and throughout practice had been exactly as it was, then that visor never leaves his head. The next step was simply to mollify the restless fanbase, with the given excuse being, "Okay, fine, let's give him a shot. Before we unload him once and for all, we may as well roll him out there to make the fans happy. Quick...tear up the playbook!"

Had Tebow been named Tavaris Jackson, Brady Quinn would've received that tap on the shoulder. EOS.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:19 am

Van wrote:Nonsense. In this instance Fox and Denver clearly did, and it's not even debatable.

You're right. It isn't debatable. When the games counted, Tebow was the first one off the bench.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:47 am

Van wrote: We all know that Tebow only leapfrogged him due to his public persona feeding the outcries of a delirious fanbase. Tebow's play did nothing to merit a promotion. Had he been named Derek Anderson instead of Tim Tebow he never would've gotten that visor off his head.

Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

so you think denver would be better than 3-1 with quinn at the helm as opposed to tebow?

this I've gotta hear

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:13 am

Felix, find anything in my quote where I said something remotely like that. Of course I didn't. They would've lost the Detroit game, regardless. The difference is, with Quinn they at least may have resembled an NFL offense in more than just one of their last four games.

And Denver is 3-1 while doing their damndest to minimize Tebow's impact on the game. They are not 3-1 because of his stellar QB play. If you want to gloat over 3-1, pat your O-Line on the back. Salute your defense, who made it possible to win despite your offense completing a ridiculous two passes. Tebow's numbers? They equate to nothing more than the ability not to fumble.

None of which matters a whit because like mvscal said, running the ball does not win titles in today's NFL. The ability to defend the pass and effectively throw the ball when pressed to do so are what win titles. At best, Denver is conducting an odd tangent with wholly predictable results. There isn't a person in that organization or elsewhere thorought the league who believes that Denver's current offensive model offers any recipe for sustained success.

It does not. It is clearly doomed to one-off-footnote-status that will be the object of chuckled derision in NFL filmrooms for years to come.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:32 am

Van wrote:And Denver is 3-1 while doing their damndest to minimize Tebow's impact on the game. They are not 3-1 because of his stellar QB play.

Why do you insist on ignoring the fact that Tebow has scored 20 touchdowns in 7 games as a starter? Why do you insist on ignoring the fact that he seldom turns the ball over? Why do you insist on holding him to a standard of professional development that you do not apply to any other quarterback who has ever played the game?

You need to take a deep breath, a long look in the mirror and back the fuck up. The kid has only started seven games as a pro. Sure, he's got a lot to learn, but he's been pretty good all things considered. Scoring and taking care of the ball are two of the three tasks an NFL QB has to master. Now what he needs to do is learn to improve his completion percentage so he can sustain some drives. It's not easy especially considering he didn't play a pro set offense in college and has been pushed into the starting lineup early than anticipated.

You're acting more like a jilted woman than an objective observer.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:36 am

mvscal wrote:
Van wrote:And Denver is 3-1 while doing their damndest to minimize Tebow's impact on the game. They are not 3-1 because of his stellar QB play.
Why do you insist on ignoring the fact that Tebow has scored 20 touchdowns in 7 games as a starter?

Because it's a nearly meaningless stat built entirely on the backs of his O-Line/offensive scheme. His rushing yards/TDs will never mean anything because they will never equate to sustained winning. It's a temporary sideshow/band-aid, nothing more.

Besides, scoring less than than three TDs per game against mostly bad defenses when you handle the ball on nearly every play really isn't all that shit-hot impressive anyway. Compare his numbers to those of real QBs in the league. Pit Tebow and those other QBs against real defenses. Tell me what happens next? Real QBs move the ball, manage the game, score points and match TD for TD with their skilled counterparts. What's Tebow going to do? Just keep sprinting down the line?

That'll work great in a 10-7 game against anemic KC. It's not going to raise an eyebrow in Lambeau.

Why do you insist on ignoring the fact that he seldom turns the ball over?

Earl Campbell rarely turned the ball over either, and for pretty much the same reason: He was a fullback, and fullbacks don't fumble much while even more rarely throwing picks. So what? Let's see how Tebow's TD/Int ratio, completion %, and yards per attempt numbers look once he's being asked to shoulder the typical burden of any second-year NFL starting QB. So far, he's been given man-coverage defensive schemes on a silver platter—schemes brilliant QBs work all week to create and exploit—and still he's barely clipping over 40% of his little dinks and dunks.

Get him back in the pocket where an NFL QB belongs, and what have we seen? Nine thousand sacks, throws ending up in trays of nachos, outright laughter in the studio...and not a whole lot of passing success.

That's what you need to judge him on. His running will never carry them anywhere. Until he gets his passing game on a par with the real QBs in the league, he's inevitably on his way out.

Why do you insist on holding him to a standard of professional development that you do not apply to any other quarterback who has ever played the game?

I hold him to to the same standard to which I hold all first-round draft pick QBs in the NFL: professional competency straight off the very first bus of training camp. You're the one who wishes to invent—without actually detailing any of it—some wild phantasm of Tebow Specific Criteria by which YOU will grade his first few years in the league.

Everyone else looks at an Andy Dalton, a Matt Ryan, a Cam Newton, even a Mark Sanchez, and says, "Yep, the guy arrived in the league ready to play the game. He'll make mistakes as he adjusts to the speed of the game, but he's got the tools right now to excel. We don't need to blow two years on the guy just to get him to where he can execute the rudimentary basics of footwork, throwing delivery, and reading defenses. He can handle the entire playbook. Let's roll."

You need to take a deep breath, a long look in the mirror and back the fuck up. The kid has only started seven games as a pro. Sure, he's got a lot to learn, but he's been pretty good all things considered. Scoring and taking care of the ball are two of the three tasks an NFL QB has to master. Now what he needs to do is learn to improve his completion percentage so he can sustain some drives. It's not easy especially considering he didn't play a pro set offense in college and has been pushed into the starting lineup early than anticipated.

You're acting more like a jilted woman than an objective observer.

Other than USC and Stanford QBs, which college QBs enter the league ready to run pro-set offenses? Not many, is the answer. Despite this numerical fact, the vast majority of rookie QBs arrive in camp with the basics of the position already mastered. Cam Newton received even less structure at Auburn than Tebow received at Florida, and do we really need to delve too deeply into their relative NFL-readiness after their first seven games? Or Dalton's? Or Ryan's?

Why aren't you applying their performance expectations to Tebow?

Better yet, here's one for you and any Tebow backer: Pick any recent draft pick QB in the league. He's all yours. 1st round picks, 3rd round picks, whatever. Grab whatever guy you want, the idea being to set yourself up with a franchise QB for the next ten years.

Looking around the league, I see all sorts of names who came from all sorts of different offenses, most of which weren't pro-sets in college. Putting aside the elite QBs, here is just a sampling of our recent crop...

Tebow
Newton
Dalton
Gabbert
McCoy
Bradford
Ponder
Freeman
Henne
Sanchez
Painter
Cassell
Flacco
Ryan
Stafford
Fitzpatrick

Hell, you can even throw in everyone's favorite whipping boy, Alex Smith.

Scan that list, keeping in mind that Tebow is not only not a rookie, he's a first-round draft pick, a Heisman-winner, and a national champion.

Now, go ahead and name me anyone on that list for whom you'd have less confidence in handing over the keys to your franchise for the next ten years than Tim Tebow. Who wouldn't make the cut over him? Curtis Painter? Fitzpatrick? Anyone else?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:15 am

Van wrote:Because it's a nearly meaningless stat

Yeah. Whatever. You're done.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:05 pm

Van, I'm interested to know what you think should happen now.

But first, the background is that J. McDaniels clearly drafted Tebow (1st round) to be groomed as the future starter.
McDaniels is long gone and J. Fox is the man now.
He may or may not believe in Tebow like McDaniels did.

Orton was failing and needed to sit down.
I assume you think Fox should have gone to B. Quinn?

Anyway, Fox went to Tebow.

Do you think they should go to Quinn now, because Tebow (at 3-1 as a starter) is sucking so badly and has no future as a QB in the league?

If you were the coach, what would you do today?

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:02 pm

If I were Fox? I would've dealt Tebow during camp, right after Quinn beat him out. Failing that, I would certainly look to deal him a.s.a.p., while he presumably still holds some trade value. They know they'll never get anywhere with him, so why drag this out?

Having the Tim Tebow Question perpetually hanging over the organization's head like a big, dull monolith is never going to allow them to move forward. The veterans on that team will soon grow weary of the media hordes swarming the locker room every time Tebow burps up another ugly fucking abortion of a game.

This was McDaniels' baby. McDaniels isn't there anymore, but John Elway still is. That guy knows that Denver is stuck in reverse as long as they don't have a real hope at QB, and Tebow will never rise to the level of a championship-caliber NFL QB. Knowing this, why continue to waste time on him? Draft a real QB, take your lumps in the short-term, and move on.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:26 pm

Thanks to Killian for providing the link...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... fl-wp11923

John Fox: Tim Tebow would be 'screwed' in a normal offense

NFL head coaches do not specialize in being honest and forthcoming. Trying to get candor out of one of them is akin to trying to milk an anvil. This is why John Fox, head coach of the Denver Broncos, is today's hero.

The honesty that somehow shot forth from his mouth wasn't even anything we all didn't already know -- but it's so honest, and thus, so refreshing, that I feel like it's worth celebrating. Fox talked to Jeff Darlington of NFL.com about a lot of things, including Tebow running his new pass-free option offense.

"Do whatever the hell it takes," he laughed. "I mean, what the hell? You don't get points for style in this league. Let me tell you something: My man is really good in this offense. You know what I mean?

"If we were trying to run a regular offense, he'd be screwed."

Maybe the best thing about it is that when reading the article, it doesn't sound like anything close to an insult. It just sounds like something that's a reality, something the Broncos have to deal with, and something of which John Fox is making the best.

So yes, it's true -- Tim Tebow cannot play in a traditional NFL offense. The solution to that problem for about 100 of 100 other NFL coaches would be to play someone other than Tim Tebow. The solution for John Fox? Blow the whole damn thing up and try something new.

"I don't think anybody has ever done it quite to the extent we're doing it," said Fox, again referencing the current-day NFL option.

It's beautiful. How many NFL coaches have lost their jobs through the years because they have a specific way of doing things, and they will not deviate from that way, no matter what the talent around them dictates? Fox has not only been flexible, he's taken it to an absolute extreme. It's such a massive change of pace from the traditional copycat nature of the NFL that it almost makes me want to root for Fox and Tebow.

The new Tebow-friendly offense is so run-oriented that Fox even referred to the passing game as "that other crap."

"After the loss to Detroit, we decided if Tim is going to be our guy, we can't do that other crap," Fox said. "We had to tweak it."

I still do like the other crap, and I don't think there's any danger that Pat White, Eric Crouch and Denard Robinson will put Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers out of a job. The reality for John Fox, though, is that he doesn't have a Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He has what he has, and he's embracing it full force. That's a pretty good way to go about things.

mvscal, so, yeah, tell me again about that "normal learning curve" you see Tebow working through right now? See, I'm pretty sure that part of "normalcy" within the NFL game involves the widespread use of...passing! It's not just "that crap" teams are forced to do in between zone-read option runs!

YOU FUCKING DOLT!

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:22 pm

Van wrote:It's beautiful. How many NFL coaches have lost their jobs through the years because they have a specific way of doing things, and they will not deviate from that way, no matter what the talent around them dictates?

Hasn't Fox's MO always been strong running game, strong run defense? This is probably less of a deviation for him than it would be for many coaches.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm

Not to this extent, obviously. Not to such a point where he's reduced to referring to the passing game as "that other crap."

Still, this was the most cogent bit of the whole thing...

"So yes, it's true -- Tim Tebow cannot play in a traditional NFL offense. The solution to that problem for about 100 of 100 other NFL coaches would be to play someone other than Tim Tebow."

That's it, in a nutshell. This is a silly band-aid measure that cannot work. The sooner Denver scraps it, the sooner they can begin the process of moving forward.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:20 am

Van wrote:If I were Fox? I would've dealt Tebow during camp, right after Quinn beat him out. Failing that, I would certainly look to deal him a.s.a.p., while he presumably still holds some trade value. They know they'll never get anywhere with him, so why drag this out?

Having the Tim Tebow Question perpetually hanging over the organization's head like a big, dull monolith is never going to allow them to move forward. The veterans on that team will soon grow weary of the media hordes swarming the locker room every time Tebow burps up another ugly fucking abortion of a game.

This was McDaniels' baby. McDaniels isn't there anymore, but John Elway still is. That guy knows that Denver is stuck in reverse as long as they don't have a real hope at QB, and Tebow will never rise to the level of a championship-caliber NFL QB. Knowing this, why continue to waste time on him? Draft a real QB, take your lumps in the short-term, and move on.

Van, I can appreciate that.

I understand what you would have tried to do if you were Fox... in training camp.

But I'm wondering what you would do if you, Van from T1B, were dropped in to take over as Mule coach today.

What would you do with the QB situation?

If you win on Thursday night, you're a half game out of the division lead.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:45 am

Tebow isn't adjusting to the position, rather, Denver is adjusting to Tebow. Nobody said Tebow can't score a TD or win a game, but a gimmick offense is not going to bring you sustained success in this league. NFL defenses will catch up in no time.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:48 am

Mgo, I saw an NFL "round table" discussion the other night, and the gist of the two former NFL players—one of whom was Lomas Brown...the other I can't recall except that he wore a ridiculous fucking bowtie—was that an NFL franchise may only attempt to overhaul their entire offense around one guy when that one guy is a surefire All Pro-caliber player. We're talking an immediate difference maker who can carry your franchise for ten-plus years.

Peyton Manning. Maybe a Barry Sanders. Possibly even an Andrew Luck. In each case, however, that change was never going to involve the complete dismantling of an NFL offense into something utterly unrecognizable as an NFL offense—something that will also never work, not if the goal is to compete for championships.

Their feeling was that Tebow in no way warranted this sort of comprehensive tearing-down of an entire offense. His mediocre-at-best talents simply don't demand it, and the projected rate of failure fairly obviates it.

"I'm sorry, but this guy is simply nowhere near good enough to justify all these crazy accomodations they're making for him. They'll never win this way, so what are they doing?"

Their other main sentiment was that DCs around the league will soon begin targeting the guy for incessant poundings, whether or not he's carrying the ball. He will get hurt, and then what? The entire offense has been gutted to where it can only be run by one guy, and now that guy is on the sidelines.

It's the Michael Vick scenario, only Tebow is nowhere near as explosive plus he's nearly useless as a passer.

pop, potentially ending Thursday night just out of the AFC West lead is pure fool's gold, and everyone within the organization knows it. There is no way to sustain this primitive garbage, and there sure as hell is no way to beat any of the better teams in the playoffs with it. Is the goal merely to hit a ceiling of an ugly, situational .500?

This is the Denver Broncos we're talking about here, owners of two Lombardi trophies; participants in four other Super Bowls. This is a proud franchise currently headed by one of the NFL's all-time great QBs. They are not going to settle for such a defeatist's blueprint.

Again, what would I do right now if I were John Fox?

~John Fox and John Elway pull up a chair for Tim in the coach's office~

"Son, Coach Fox and I have decided that we're going to have to go in another direction. Minus an effective, reliable passing game, the Denver Broncos will never be able to compete at the level our fans demand from this franchise, and as much as we love you as an athlete and a competitor, you're simply not cut out to be an NFL-caliber QB. No fault of your own, we know you've been working your tail off to get better, but that's just the way it is.

"So, here's the deal. We love having you on the team. You're a helluva short-yardage runner, the guys respect you, and we think there are all sorts of clever wrinkles we can add to make use of your unique abilities. Wildcat formations...multiple H-back sets...the occasional zone-read option...all those things that are right up your alley, only in small, appropriate doses. Changes of pace. Just little things we can do to fuck with Belichick's dome, ya know? We think you could have a long, fruitful career for us in this capacity.

"Anyway, that's what we've decided to do, and we're moving forward with it starting today. Now, we know you had your heart set on being a real NFL QB, and we understand that. Far be it from us to get in the way of a guy's dreams. So, if you don't think you can get on board with our new direction, let us know. We'll do whatever we can to find you another home in the NFL. If, however, you want to remain a part of this franchise and still be here when we're hoisting championship banners again, we'd be more than glad to have you.

"Think about it, and get back to Coach Fox or me later today. Nice talking with you."

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:58 am

Then you'd go with Quinn?

Or Orton?

Van, for what it's worth, I don't think Fox has any intention of using this sort of offense beyond this season.
I think he's just trying to make lemonade from the lemon he currently holds.

If Tebow is going to be the QB in 2012, it's not going to be in an offense that looks like this.
He'll have to get himself much more up to speed with his passing.

That's what I think.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:12 am

I'd go with whatever's left in the cupboard until I could grab someone else off the waiver wire, then I'd trade up in the draft to acquire either Barkley, Jones, Foles, or Ostweiler. Fuck, maybe even Keenum or that dude on SSI who's QB-ing for Okie St.

There is simply no scenario by which I let Tebow back under center taking starting snaps in 2012. None. Fox has already admitted that the guy cannot get the job done in a conventional NFL offense. That's all there is to it. The rest is just posturing and window dressing.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:36 am

Van wrote: There is simply no scenario by which I let Tebow back under center taking starting snaps in 2012. None. Fox has already admitted that the guy cannot get the job done in a conventional NFL offense. That's all there is to it. The rest is just posturing and window dressing.

and what makes you think they will let tebow start next year?
unless that cat makes some serious strides in the next 8 months, he'll be an H-back or a possibly some type of hybrid tight end running an occasional wildcat formation if he's playing for denver at all....denver is going to try and deal orton to somebody (good luck on that) and maybe parlay some draft picks into a more versatile quarterback....at least somebody that throws consistently....

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:29 pm

He can turn water into wine but can he lead the Broncos to win over Rex's foot soldiers? The Jets have gone from being one of the top run defenses to middle of the pack this year...they've not really been able replace Kris Jenkins. No Moreno and McGahee...the Lions trashed the Broncos when McGahee couldn't go. Revis and Cromartie can probably play in flip-flops but Fox isn't dumb enough to throw against them. The game is in Denver and Tebow has some momentum on his side with two wins...I see the Jets playing angry and they bounce back from the loss against the Pats.

Jets and Jews each have 4 letters and Jesus and Tebow each have 5 letters...just saying. Rex and God have 3 letters but that's a stretch...

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:06 pm

Felix wrote:
Van wrote: There is simply no scenario by which I let Tebow back under center taking starting snaps in 2012. None. Fox has already admitted that the guy cannot get the job done in a conventional NFL offense. That's all there is to it. The rest is just posturing and window dressing.
and what makes you think they will let tebow start next year?

I don't. I was simply responding to pop's statement regarding 2012.

unless that cat makes some serious strides in the next 8 months,

Wouldn't matter. All such strides would accomplish would be to bring him up to mediocre. He's so far behind the curve in terms of what an NFL QB has to be that all the improvement in the world will never bridge that gap.

Like you, me, pop or even the estimable mvscal, Tim Tebow simply does not possess NFL QB-level talent. There's no overcoming this basic fact.

he'll be an H-back or a possibly some type of hybrid tight end running an occasional wildcat formation if he's playing for denver at all....denver is going to try and deal orton to somebody (good luck on that) and maybe parlay some draft picks into a more versatile quarterback....at least somebody that throws consistently....

Exactly what should happen, yes.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:15 pm

Shoalzie wrote:He can turn water into wine but can he lead the Broncos to win over Rex's foot soldiers? The Jets have gone from being one of the top run defenses to middle of the pack this year...they've not really been able replace Kris Jenkins. No Moreno and McGahee...the Lions trashed the Broncos when McGahee couldn't go. Revis and Cromartie can probably play in flip-flops but Fox isn't dumb enough to throw against them. The game is in Denver and Tebow has some momentum on his side with two wins...I see the Jets playing angry and they bounce back from the loss against the Pats.

Jets and Jews each have 4 letters and Jesus and Tebow each have 5 letters...just saying. Rex and God have 3 letters but that's a stretch...

Did someone spike your Wheaties with acid this morning?

Anyway, tonight's game really doesn't matter much in terms of Denver and Tebow. They're simply riding out the string until they can cut bait and start over.

As far as the Jets go, well, how much can really be expected of them tonight? Coming off of a devastating home loss to New England, then having to follow it up during a very short week with a 2,000-mile roadie westward, they'd be excused for somewhat mailing in tonight's performance. They're much better than Denver so they will probably win anyway, but this game will not prove to be much of a barometer of anything.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Van wrote:Did someone spike your Wheaties with acid this morning?

Crazy like a (John) Fox...

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:02 pm

Tebow's ridiculously slow release always makes me throw up in my mouth.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:34 pm

Van wrote: but this game will not prove to be much of a barometer of anything.

Prepackaging your excuse already. God, you're pathetic.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:45 am

Jest win this 27-6. Tebow completes 3 passes for 47 yards. Oh yeah, he rushes for 120. Big fucking deal.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:36 am

mvscal wrote:
Van wrote: but this game will not prove to be much of a barometer of anything.
Prepackaging your excuse already. God, you're pathetic.

Stay down and shut the fuck up. John Fox already kicked you and your stupid excuses straight in the stinky catfish.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:42 am

This game is setting back football to the leather helmet era.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:41 am

Okay, I'm beginning to think Sanchez may be blue-green color blind.