So what does the future hold for PSU?

[M Club]

No one will ever pass judgment on the innocents of Penn St Nation. They are not the problem, insofar as the Cult of Personality issue reflects on the university as a whole.

er, have a feeling this is going to be fodder for shit talking for just about ever.

WE ARE...

...PENN RAPE!

that guy took a shit all over penn state and everyone involved with it. perhaps people aren't going to hold individual alumni accountable for butt raping little boys, but they're definitely going to want to talk about it once they realize where you went to school.

[Screw_Michigan]

but they're definitely going to want to talk about it once they realize where you went to school.

Potential hiring manager...scans resume

"So...you graduated from Penn State?"

:doh:

[PSUFAN]

...and seriously, is that a terrible result? I think conversations about the implications of sexual abuse should definitely take place more often than they do. Unless they are among the Sandusky direct enablers or abusers, PSU fans are just like those with the questions, in fact they have the same questions. Sexual abuse can and does afflict all of our communities, and increased awareness and comfort with discussion about the attending issues are things that need to happen.

As for me, I appreciate the sympathy - but Joe wasn't a God to me. I am not devastated at the evidence that Joe was human and made mistakes. I have done my best to honor Joe for his accomplishments and the many positive things he has done...but for quite some time I was concerned about the imperial grasp he had on the program and the imperial powers that his statue-polishing enablers were eager to accord him.

I hate to say this, but this disgusting interlude is, among many other things, a firm line with which to mark the beginning of a new era...one that should have been underway long ago. We have seen the enemy, and we may resolve fully to distinguish ourselves from that enemy. PSU - football and community - can only be stronger, better, healthier as a result.

[M Club]

...and seriously, is that a terrible result? I think conversations about the implications of sexual abuse should definitely take place more often than they do. Unless they are among the Sandusky direct enablers or abusers, PSU fans are just like those with the questions, in fact they have the same questions. Sexual abuse can and does afflict all of our communities, and increased awareness and comfort with discussion about the attending issues are things that need to happen.

how's that conversation going to look in real life?

- man, pervs.

- yeah, pervs. fuck those guys.

- yeah.

i don't know, i just don't think a penn state coach raping boys and then his posse covering it up is going to have an effect on how often gross fuckers go looking for underage trysts. sure, the university's going to probably make a hefty annual donation to some non-profit dealing with sexually exploited children, but by then it's pretty much too late anyhow. and not like rampant pedophilia is a widespread problem in cfb, so the only real example being set here is "don't cover your bullshiz up next time," not "flush out your pedobears." maybe some people will become a bit more vigilant on their lookout for predators, but really, who isn't already? i mean, even this story is more focused on the fall of joepa and his pedo enabling rather than the pedo himself.

now the standard fan has to answer for it. perhaps it'll lead to the occasional discussion, like you said, about preventing future abuse, but for the most part it's just going to be a greeting formula that will forever remind you of your school's shame. sounds inconsequential, but our cfb teams are pretty important to us and, i imagine, are the subject of discussions during social outings. i can't imagine every one of those discussions eventually leading to kid rape, and even if they didn't having kid rape hover unspoken. shit's tainted.

joepa fucked up a large piece of people's lives, even without considering the boys who were assaulted.

[Shoalzie]

What really was there to gain from keeping this a secret up until now? Did those three and Paterno think this could've been completely swept under the rug and it would never see the light of day? Or did they think there was a way for it come to out where the school along with Paterno and the program would be free and clear of any wrong doing? Taking a little heat for having a former coach sexually abuse children on campus couldn't possibly be worse than having a former coach sexually abusing children on campus and they cover it up for more than a decade.

I think had this had been properly dealt with when the first witnessed incident occurred on campus, Penn State would've taken some heat for it but not like what they're getting now. The thing that damages Paterno in most people's eyes is the fact this comes out at the tail end of his life/career and not a dozen or so years ago when this should've been handled right then and there. Yeah, he would've had the footnote in his bio of a former assistant being a pedophile but he would've helped turn him in and in a way been a hero for it.

What will forever bother me about this is still the insistence of Paterno's impeccable image and integrity in spite of this. You can't just brush this off as some kind of a lapse in judgment when lives have been ruined. A lot of this could've been prevented if this man of such "great integrity" came out in front of this and put the well-being of those children ahead of his own and the program and helped put Sandusky behind bars long before this festered into a full on scandal.

I really don't know how you punish Penn State further beyond those four being out of power...which they already ready are. The death penalty has been thrown around but what does Bill O'Brien and the 2012 team have to do with this? The men responsible for covering this up are gone and if more names are revealed, then they should be gone too. I'm probably in the minority but you don't need to nuke the program when the guilty parties are out of the picture. You start over with a new regime (school president, athletic director and coach) and let the court system decide what happens with anyone involved in the cover up.

[Go Coogs']

I think mclub nailed it.

PSUFAN, I see that everyone will in fact raise awareness of people coming forward and not turning a blind eye. This tragedy will definitely make things better in the end, but it was at the cost of so many other victims when it could've been difused well before hand. I hate looking at the positives of something so vile and disgusting, that even grown men were afraid to blow the whistle.

When are people going to start realizing that this crime is just as violent as seeing a kid getting beaten with a baseball in the middle of university square? Children will always be excused for their silence and thought process because, well, they are children. When a house catches on fire, adults will find safety outside of the burning structure whereas children will hide inside the burning structure. They are different from the grown ups. And no matter how much we try to teach children the inhumane act of abuse and sexual misconduct from a man or woman, they will, for the most part, hide it if it happens to them.

I'm so taken a back by this story because it was THE PRESIDENT, THE AD, and JOE PATERNO that covered this up. These are the type of people that you keep shit from because heads are going to f...ing roll when they find out, right? Wrong. This is just so difficult to wrap my brain around. I hope these men are charged with felonies. I hope McQuery and those janitors at least get slapped with class A misdermeanors and serve a little time. They are all scum. Jesus H. Christ, '911' is not a difficult number to remember.

And Mgo is right. I have doubts about everything now. Who can you trust nowadays?

[Van]

but they're definitely going to want to talk about it once they realize where you went to school.

Potential hiring manager...scans resume

"So...you graduated from Penn State?"

:doh:

Okay, true.

[Dinsdale]

Dins, I can't tell whether you're being serious or not and I haven't followed any recent doings in the OJ case, so to what are you referring?

A recent book that proves (albeit circumstancially) that OJ didn't do it -- he was covering for his son, who pezzed the golddigger and the waiter.

Google is your friend.

[indyfrisco]

Well, one good thing has come of all this. It has created jobs.

A family member just got hired at a top state school as a background investigator for all employees hired who will have any interaction with school sponsored activities including children. He says his title is The Sandusky Preventer. I told him he needs to come up with a better title.

[Van]

I really don't know how you punish Penn State further beyond those four being out of power...which they already ready are. The death penalty has been thrown around but what does Bill O'Brien and the 2012 team have to do with this? The men responsible for covering this up are gone and if more names are revealed, then they should be gone too. I'm probably in the minority but you don't need to nuke the program when the guilty parties are out of the picture. You start over with a new regime (school president, athletic director and coach) and let the court system decide what happens with anyone involved in the cover up.

Then apply that same thinking to USC. Not a single person involved in the Reggie Bush incident was still a part of the USC football program by the time the NCAA decided to overreach and make an example of them. In fact, most of the kids who were punished by those NCAA sanctions were in grade school at the time of the Reggie Bush affair, and hardly any of the same coaches were still around. I believe Lane Kiffin was the only one, and he had nothing to do with any of it.

You have to be consistent with this shit, or else it has no meaning.

The reason the NCAA needs to punish the Penn St football program is reiterated right here...

and not like rampant pedophilia is a widespread problem in cfb, so the only real example being set here is "don't cover your bullshiz up next time," not "flush out your pedobears."

Penn St's crime wasn't Sandusky's crime, it was the LOIC they exemplified in engaging in the widespread cover-up. That is a blatant NCAA violation; in fact, the most blatant in the history of college athletics. As a deterrent to Penn St and any other member institutions that may again waver in favor of protecting their cash cow football program rather than doing the right thing upon discovering misdeeds within the program, yes, the NCAA needs to come down like Thor's cock ring on the unchecked monolith that is Penn St football. Never mind the basic fact that punishment is also called for simply to address the wrongdoing. We don't stick people in jail only as a deterrent. No, we also stick them in jail because they earned that trip to jail. They committed acts for which they deserve to be punished.

In Penn St's case, allowing their football program to continue on as it has would mean that their mass cover-up will go unpunished, and that would clearly be wrong.

But yeah, NCAA, let's go ahead and drop the hammer on Cal freaking Tech over some class-scheduling fuck-ups.

There aren't enough of these... ...to do any of this justice.

[Van]

The case for the death penalty by Slate.

I'm not convinced. The wrongdoing was limited to a few people, albeit high ranking ones. PSU has more punishment ahead -- how much money do you think the child victims are going to get -- but the death penalty would hurt too many who were not a part of the criminal acts and had no idea of the wrongdoing.

How about a year or two ban, as opposed to anything permanent? You don't seriously believe that the football program shouldn't be punished at all, do you?

[Van]

I'm so taken a back by this story because it was THE PRESIDENT, THE AD, and JOE PATERNO that covered this up. These are the type of people that you keep shit from because heads are going to f...ing roll when they find out, right? Wrong.

Excellent point, and very well put. Knowing they all conspired to do so for the sole purpose of protecting their cash cow football program, that's the most damning aspect of the entire sordid affair.

[BSmack]

The case for the death penalty by Slate.


I'm not convinced. The wrongdoing was limited to a few people, albeit high ranking ones. PSU has more punishment ahead -- how much money do you think the child victims are going to get -- but the death penalty would hurt too many who were not a part of the criminal acts and had no idea of the wrongdoing.

The hell it was just a few people. Even the janitors knew better than to talk. The whole fucking place was a cesspool of don't ask/don't tell. The current athletes should all be given waivers and the program should be shuttered. And that stupid statue of Paterno should get blown up like this.

[PSUFAN]

In Penn St's case, allowing their football program to continue on as it has would mean that their mass cover-up will go unpunished

Total bullshit. The coverup needs to be punished, so punish the people who engaged in it. Punishing people who weren't involved is useless.

[Mr T]

Total bullshit. The coverup needs to be punished, so punish the people who engaged in it. Punishing people who weren't involved is useless.

When has a NCAA punishment not led to innocent people being punished?

[Van]

In Penn St's case, allowing their football program to continue on as it has would mean that their mass cover-up will go unpunished

Total bullshit. The coverup needs to be punished, so punish the people who engaged in it. Punishing people who weren't involved is useless.

The football program was involved. It was a football coach who committed the crimes, it was a (soon to be) football coach who witnessed the crimes and first passed the buck, and it was the head coach who ultimately made the decision to cover everything up. The football program is the entire reason for the cover-up. Had it been a science professor who went all Sandusky on a bunch of kids you can bet your ass that the university would have done the right thing. Because it was the football program involved, however, here we are.

And enough already about "punish the people who engaged in it. Punishing people who weren't involved is useless." That's pie-in-the-sky stuff that has nothing to do with the reality of college athletics, where more often than not the people who committed the infractions are no longer there by the time the sanctions are handed down. That's how it nearly always goes with NCAA sanctions.

Jim Tressel, Terrell Pryor and the other players involved? All gone. Reggie Bush, Mike Garrett and all but one coach? Gone. Every single player and coach involved in the Miami scandal that's sure to result in some sort of NCAA sanctions? Not one of them will still be there by the time the NCAA gets around to making their decision.

That's just how it goes. The actions of the Penn St football program make all other NCAA infractions to date seem like shoplifting a couple of pencils from the Student Union by comparision, plus the violations went all the way up to the highest reaches of the Penn St University administration. There is no fucking way the football program ought to be allowed to get off Scot-free.

[The Seer]

You have to be consistent with this shit, or else it has no meaning.

In Penn St's case, allowing their football program to continue on as it has would mean that their mass cover-up will go unpunished, and that would clearly be wrong.

But yeah, NCAA, let's go ahead and drop the hammer on Cal freaking Tech over some class-scheduling fuck-ups.

There aren't enough of these... ...to do any of this justice.

It IS kind of damning, ISN'T it.

[Screw_Michigan]

What blows my mind right now is the elimination of ANY doubt as to how the Paterno family had EVERYONE by the fucking balls. Look at these assholes, basically extorting money from Penn State like ruthless gang-bangers and using potential rioting as leverage after getting $5 million for retirement. Unbelievable. Check this shit out:

Others worried about the hostility they would face if they tried to strip Mr. Paterno, still beloved in many quarters of the campus, of money that he was contractually owed — a prospect that grew even more worrisome after he died on Jan. 22 this year. During a conference call, one board member worried aloud that failure to make good on what was owed to the Paterno estate could lead to another “reign of terror” by Mr. Paterno’s supporters, according to a person who was on the call.

With rumblings that the Paterno family was thinking of suing the board of trustees for defamation, the board dispatched its lawyer to negotiate the final payments. All the board wanted in return was a release protecting the university from such a lawsuit.

The Paternos refused. Mr. Sollers said in his statement that “the retention of their legal rights in a case of this magnitude and complexity is customary and appropriate.”

The board of trustees ultimately agreed to make good on the full package anyhow, and in April paid what was owed to the Paternos. Additional demands, like the desire by Mr. Paterno’s wife to make use of the athletic department’s hydrotherapy facilities, were met. The board did draw the line at the family’s request to use the university’s corporate jet, arguing that the contract limited that use to the coach himself. And it refused the family’s demand to retain use of the stadium box next to the university president’s, the one reserved for the head coach, offering the family the choice of two other suites on a different floor.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

That's how it nearly always goes with NCAA sanctions.

How it always goes as it relates to NCAA sanctions would be "fair play" matters, not criminal matters. As horrific as these crimes were, nothing that came from them resulted in PSU gaining a competitive advantage on the field. That's the business that the NCAA sticks its nose in. Not saying they won't dole out any punishment here, but if they do, they will basically be re-writing their by-laws on the fly, and I'm not sure that's a road they want to go down.

In any event, I fail to see what good the death penalty/major sanctions would bring here. Do we really need to send a message that says, "don't cover up kid rape OR ELSE!" Seems fairly self evident that one's a no-no. If it's not, then your moral compass is so fucked to the point there's no hope for you. Again, if the prospect of losing your job, ruining your reputation and facing prison time are not effective deterrents, then sanctions against the institution that employs you wouldn't be either.

[Van]

Mgo, USC gained no competitive advantage on the field when a shady agent attempted to poach one of its established stars by providing his in-laws a break on the rent of a house. USC stood no chance of benefitting from that yet they were shithamered by the NCAA for it.

Ohio St gained no competitive advantage on the field when its boneheaded players got free tattoos.

The NCAA's message isn't "don't cover up kid rape OR ELSE!" No, it's "don't cover up violations OR ELSE!" The fact that it was a systemic cover-up regarding rape is incidental to the fact that Penn St covered up an obvious decade-plus of violations for the sole purpose of protecting the football program.

The football program needs to be put on the shelf for two years as punishment and as a deterrent. The players need to be allowed to retain their scholarships or transfer to other schools without any eligibility penalties.

[Screw_Michigan]

Do we really need to send a message that says, "don't cover up kid rape OR ELSE!" Seems fairly self evident that one's a no-no. If it's not, then your moral compass is so fucked to the point there's no hope for you. Again, if the prospect of losing your job, ruining your reputation and facing prison time are not effective deterrents, then sanctions against the institution that employs you wouldn't be either.

Yes. Penn State should not be able to enjoy the fruits that were produced by this scandal: Football money. For at least one season.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Mgo, USC gained no competitive advantage on the field when a shady agent attempted to poach one of its established stars by providing his in-laws a break on the rent of a house. USC stood no chance of benefitting from that yet they were shithamered by the NCAA for it.

Don't be obtuse. Of course, it can be argued whether or not any violation from any program actually resulted in a "competitive advantage," but the bottom line is, what you described above is exactly the kind of stuff that the NCAA polices; it doesn't matter who was involved (rogue agents or the university) or how much money. Is it fair? I don't know. I just know that perceived fair play/play for pay matters are their business, not criminal matters.

Ohio St gained no competitive advantage on the field when its boneheaded players got free tattoos.

The OSU scandal ran much deeper than free tattoos, but in any event, see my response above.

The NCAA's message isn't "don't cover up kid rape OR ELSE!" No, it's "don't cover up violations OR ELSE!" The fact that it was a systemic cover-up regarding rape is incidental to the fact that Penn St covered up an obvious decade-plus of violations for the sole purpose of protecting the football program.

They didn't commit any actual NCAA violations, none that we are aware of. If they did, please cite them.

The football program needs to be put on the shelf for two years as punishment and as a deterrent. The players need to be allowed to retain their scholarships or transfer to other schools without any eligibility penalties.

I tend to disagree, but I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. I just think more harm than good would come from it, and it would not be an effective deterrent for the reasons I stated in my previous post. People already know they aren't supposed to commit crimes. The threat of sanctions wouldn't change their decision making, not if they are already willing to put their own asses on the line.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I'm not kidding, either.

I know you're not. You're a reactionary moron who doesn't think anything through.

[Screw_Michigan]

Penn State was the 7th most profitable program out of all 1-A schools. THAT is why they covered up these crimes and THAT'S why you have to shut down the program because the school will continue to produce money as the 7th most profitable school. If you don't impede that, no academic bureaucrat will ever think of doing the right thing.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

If you don't impede that, no academic bureaucrat will ever think of doing the right thing.

I'm trying to envision those thoughts and discussions amongst administration.

"Dude, I know we could lose our jobs over this shit, and spend some time behind bars, but I think we should roll with this cover up anyway."

"What about sanctions against our institution?"

"Oh FUCK, you're right. Let's do the right thing."

Yeah, I'm sure that's how it would go down.

[PSUFAN]

Mgo, USC gained no competitive advantage on the field when a shady agent attempted to poach one of its established stars by providing his in-laws a break on the rent of a house. USC stood no chance of benefitting from that yet they were shithamered by the NCAA for it.

Ohio St gained no competitive advantage on the field when its boneheaded players got free tattoos.

The NCAA's message isn't "don't cover up kid rape OR ELSE!" No, it's "don't cover up violations OR ELSE!" The fact that it was a systemic cover-up regarding rape is incidental to the fact that Penn St covered up an obvious decade-plus of violations for the sole purpose of protecting the football program.

The football program needs to be put on the shelf for two years as punishment and as a deterrent. The players need to be allowed to retain their scholarships or transfer to other schools without any eligibility penalties.

How about shutting the entire fucking school for 5 years? Everything. I'm not kidding, either.

Because that does absolutely nothing to punish the people that need to be punished. Because that says that the PSU community is defined solely by Paterno and by football - an assertion that is patently false. Because ALL of us need to put our focus on the right things in this - to counter abuse, and to dissuade the Cult of Personality - not on convenient targets.

[Dinsdale]

Mgo, USC gained no competitive advantage on the field when a shady agent attempted to poach one of its established stars by providing his in-laws a break on the rent of a house. USC stood no chance of benefitting from that yet they were shithamered by the NCAA for it.

Ohio St gained no competitive advantage on the field when its boneheaded players got free tattoos.

The NCAA's message isn't "don't cover up kid rape OR ELSE!" No, it's "don't cover up violations OR ELSE!" The fact that it was a systemic cover-up regarding rape is incidental to the fact that Penn St covered up an obvious decade-plus of violations for the sole purpose of protecting the football program.

The football program needs to be put on the shelf for two years as punishment and as a deterrent. The players need to be allowed to retain their scholarships or transfer to other schools without any eligibility penalties.

Not to hijack the thread and rehash this for the thousandth time, but...

A university completely turning a blind eye (WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE) to shady agents roaming their facilities and lining the pockets of star players with help from a staff member couldn't be construed as a recruiting tool?

USC Apologist really KTOA when they spout this stuff.

tOSU knowingly letting their players exchange memorabilia for products/services that rules forbid can't be viewed as a "recruiting tool"?

You don't see a "competitive advantage" in knowingly letting players take forbidden benefits when other schools don't?


Right up there with SECFan in the logic department.

[Mr T]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/tripon ... index.html

Yeah the way things were run down in little boy valley didnt lead to a competitive edge at all...

[BSmack]

How about shutting the entire fucking school for 5 years? Everything. I'm not kidding, either.

Because that does absolutely nothing to punish the people that need to be punished. Because that says that the PSU community is defined solely by Paterno and by football - an assertion that is patently false. Because ALL of us need to put our focus on the right things in this - to counter abuse, and to dissuade the Cult of Personality - not on convenient targets.

You want to dissuade the cult of personality? Then stop playing games in front of 100,000 people. For fucks sake man, big time college sports is ALL ABOUT the cult of personality. It is nothing less than church for Saturday afternoon backsliders and heathens. The pro game is the same way, but at least they're not corrupting what is supposed to be an institution of higher learning in the process.

[Van]

No, Dins, a rogue agent attempting to poach a star USC player is not a recruiting tool for USC. The prospect of losing their best player certainly provided USC no competitive advantage on the field, which was Mgo's yardstick for NCAA intrusion.

Mgo, don't be an idiot. Child rape is a sanctional NCAA violation whether it's included in the written bylaws or not. So are institution-wide cover-ups whose sole purpose is to protect the football program. When the head football coach is the one leading the cover-up of the actions of other football coaches, of course it's an NCAA violation.

Oh, and yes, knowing that the money-making monolith that is Penn St football was shut down by the NCAA for two years (others suggest five, but I feel two would be sufficient) might just persuade some future coach, university accountant or mid-level administrator to do the right thing and blow the whistle rather than risk the whole house of cards come tumbling down. Your point is that the risk of severe NCAA sanctions wouldn't prevent someone from committing such acts. The answer is that no, it likely wouldn't, but it certainly might motivate someone in-the-know to report such acts who otherwise might not.

Again, the problem for Penn St here isn't the criminal behavior of Jerry Sandusky. Had he simply been reported and taken away when his actions were first discovered it would've been rightly treated by the media and the NCAA as a heinous one-off, a lone insane person going off the range. No, the problem for Penn St is the cover-up by those who knew what had happened and was continuing to happen. Those people (including members of the football team's coaching staff) made the decision to prioritize the importance of the football program above all else, and that's where the NCAA can correctly sanction the football program due to a clear LOIC.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Mgo, don't be an idiot. Child rape is a sanctional NCAA violation whether it's included in the written bylaws or not.

First off, that makes zero sense. Secondly, no, it isn't. Child rape is a crime, not an NCAA infraction. Feel free to provide some evidence other than "Because I say so!"

So are institution-wide cover-ups whose sole purpose is to protect the football program. When the head football coach is the one leading the cover-up of the actions of other football coaches, of course it's an NCAA violation.

Not unless those cover-ups have to do with gaining a competitive advantage. PSU tried to protect its image and maintain the status quo -- they didn't attempt to cheat, therefore, it's unlikely the NCAA will not get involved, unless they re-evaluate their mission and jurisdiction. And that is possible.

I'm not saying it's fair or that you have to like it, I'm saying that's how they operate.

[M2]

Not unless those cover-ups have to do with gaining a competitive advantage. PSU tried to protect its image and maintain the status quo -- they didn't attempt to cheat, therefore, it's unlikely the NCAA will not get involved, unless they re-evaluate their mission and jurisdiction. And that is possible.

The coverup was done to prevent negative publicity that would blow back on football recruiting and donations.

The cover up gave PSU an unfair competitive advantage since other universities would have theoretically notified the police immediately and repeatedly about child molestation on campus involving a current or former football coach ... thus harming their football program.

The active avoidance of self harm is self advantaging.

Therefore, an NCAA penalty impacting football would be justified.

I don't know what the penalty at PSU should be (leaning towards abolishing the program entirely) ...but, it should be substantially greater than the penalties received by USC, Ohio State, or Alabama since covering up child rape is a morally worse offense than covering up payments to players by boosters and agents.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I hear you, M2, but I do not believe that is the NCAA's definition of it. We shall see.

[Van]

I stated a long time ago in this thread that I felt the NCAA would do nothing...because they're the NCAA. Why go after Penn St for their truly evil football-related actions when Cal Tech is an easy, ready-made target?

And again, just because the NCAA didn't have the foresight to include every conceivable offense as an infraction in their list of bylaws and no-no's (did they really need to include "child rape and any resulting cover-ups by head coaches and university administrators" in order to satisfy you?), that doesn't mean they can't decide to include a heretofore unspecified act as an NCAA infraction under any number of umbrellas, chiefly the ambiguously defined/all-encompassing LOIC.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I stated a long time ago in this thread that I felt the NCAA would do nothing...because they're the NCAA. Why go after Penn St for their truly evil football-related actions when Cal Tech is an easy, ready-made target?

In other words, you're hedging so you can be "right" either way.

The NCAA did very recently go after two of its biggest cash cows (USC and Ohio State) so I'm not sure this take holds water.

And again, just because the NCAA didn't have the foresight to include every conceivable offense as an infraction in their list of bylaws and no-no's (did they really need to include "child rape and any resulting cover-ups by head coaches and university administrators" in order to satisfy you?), that doesn't mean they can't decide to include a heretofore unspecified act as an NCAA infraction under any number of umbrellas, chiefly the ambiguously defined/all-encompassing LOIC.

It isn't that they lacked the foresight to include child rape, it's that they never intended to police crime (any kind of crime) in the first place.

[Van]

I stated a long time ago in this thread that I felt the NCAA would do nothing...because they're the NCAA. Why go after Penn St for their truly evil football-related actions when Cal Tech is an easy, ready-made target?

In other words, you're hedging so you can be "right" either way.

Hedging against what? Being "right" about what? My take here isn't about making any predictions. I am 100% convinced of what the NCAA should do. I'm just realistic enough and cynical enough to believe that they won't do it.

The NCAA did very recently go after two of its biggest cash cows (USC and Ohio State) so I'm not sure this take holds water.

They didn't do shit to Ohio St. They hammered USC, yes, but they basically did nothing to Ohio St despite their transgressions being much worse than USC's.

And again, just because the NCAA didn't have the foresight to include every conceivable offense as an infraction in their list of bylaws and no-no's (did they really need to include "child rape and any resulting cover-ups by head coaches and university administrators" in order to satisfy you?), that doesn't mean they can't decide to include a heretofore unspecified act as an NCAA infraction under any number of umbrellas, chiefly the ambiguously defined/all-encompassing LOIC.

It isn't that they lacked the foresight to include child rape, it's that they never intended to police crime (any kind of crime) in the first place.

And once again, you're (intentionally?) missing the point. The NCAA isn't being asked to police crime here. Their function is to police their member institutions, including those institutions' football programs, for committing NCAA infractions. Football coaches and administrators conspiring to withhold violations in order to protect the football program surely does provide Penn St with a competitive advantage on the football field, just as it provides the university a competitive advantage by allowing it to cash in on that football program.

When greed and malfeasance in the name of and by the football program is the prime motivation for both the coaching staff and the administration, the NCAA clearly has it within its jurisdiction to step in and impose penalties based on LOIC.

Until you step up and address the obvious LOIC issue, you're just spinning with all this "let the law handle the criminals" crap.

[Van]

LOIC.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

They didn't do shit to Ohio St. They hammered USC, yes, but they basically did nothing to Ohio St despite their transgressions being much worse than USC's.

So if they "hammered" one of the biggest football factories around, why wouldn't they touch PSU? I'm just trying to understand your logic.

And once again, you're (intentionally?) missing the point. The NCAA isn't being asked to police crime here. Their function is to police their member institutions, including those institutions' football programs, for committing NCAA infractions.

Agreed.

Football coaches and administrators conspiring to withhold violations in order to protect the football program surely does provide Penn St with a competitive advantage on the football field, just as it provides the university a competitive advantage by allowing it to cash in on that football program.

Agreed.

When greed and malfeasance in the name of and by the football program is the prime motivation for both the coaching staff and the administration, the NCAA clearly has it within its jurisdiction to step in and impose penalties based on LOIC.

No, that isn't clear at all.

Until you step up and address the obvious LOIC issue, you're just spinning with all this "let the law handle the criminals" crap.

Until you step up and provide specific by-law evidence that says PSU committed infractions, then I can easily say the same of you. You keep pissing in the wind here, and when asked to support your accusations with evidence, you fall back on your useless "Because I said so!" arguments.

It seems you're confusing what you think NCAA violations ought to be, versus what they actually are.

[Dinsdale]

Football coaches and administrators conspiring to withhold violations in order to protect the football program surely does provide Penn St with a competitive advantage on the football field.

Yet you believe that KNOWINGLY allowing sports agents access to your players and turning a blind eye while said agents are lining the player's pockets, and not at least taking a casual peek when a player shows up in a new decked-out ride doesn't provide a competitive advantage in recruiting ("No, we won't look into your finances, even when things are fishy, don't worry about it, just keep hanging out with those agents")?

On top of that, the school in question then did little if anything to cooperate with the investigation, and it turns out they were alerted to possible violations while they were occurring.



You're a mess, Van -- just stop.

[Van]

They didn't do shit to Ohio St. They hammered USC, yes, but they basically did nothing to Ohio St despite their transgressions being much worse than USC's.

So if they "hammered" one of the biggest football factories around, why wouldn't they touch PSU? I'm just trying to understand your logic.

Because in Penn St's case they have the easy fallback you're arguing, which is that the justice system can mete out all the punishment needed. They have the option of simply pussing out and doing nothing, same as the Penn St coaches and administrators did, and they'll likely prove to be just as loathsome by again choosing the path of least resistance.

When greed and malfeasance in the name of and by the football program is the prime motivation for both the coaching staff and the administration, the NCAA clearly has it within its jurisdiction to step in and impose penalties based on LOIC.

No, that isn't clear at all.

How could it not be? LOIC can be applied as arbitrarily as they wish. The NCAA has proven that fact beyond any shadow of a doubt. They do NOT require a specific set of guidelines already be in effect before those guidelines are deemed broken. No, they can convene and interpret their findings any way they want and then act accordingly. They are free to set their own precedents each and every time, changing them on a whim.

Until you step up and address the obvious LOIC issue, you're just spinning with all this "let the law handle the criminals" crap.

Until you step up and provide specific by-law evidence that says PSU committed infractions, then I can easily say the same of you. You keep pissing in the wind here, and when asked to support your accusations with evidence, you fall back on your useless "Because I said so!" arguments.

Bullshit. I provided the precise infraction Penn St committed on a rampant scale: LOIC. Now it's your turn. Tell me how Penn St is not guilty of LOIC.

Go....