So what does the future hold for PSU?

[Van]

The few I checked had Catholics numbering roughly 23% of the Christian total, and your number of Christians comprising roughly 75% of all Americans jibes with what I read.

Regardless, no, the number of Catholics in America is nowhere near 100,000,000. And, as someone already pointed out, I wonder what the number of practicing Catholics really is? I'm talking people who really get after it, as opposed to those who just pop in to make the obligatory appearance on the required occasions.

What do you suppose their number is? I'm guessing that if you remove the illegal aliens and their grandmothers with the rosary beads and if you also remove drunk Irishmen (redundant, I know), the real number is probably something like, oh 12, 879.

[PSUFAN]

It's on that last score where I'm now wavering regarding my earlier feelings regarding the necessary severity of the sanctions. I felt they should have received a two-year death penalty. However, thinking about the way such a penalty would have also affected all those rank-and-file people (the hot dog vendors, parking lot attendents, ticket counters, stadium ushers, local bar owners, etc.), I've come to the conclusion that no, a death penalty would've been too much and that this is more of a proper punishment.

Well...how do you like that?

I'm not exactly sure why ANY punishment is appropriate for the people you mention, but that's now an academic matter.

A Death Penalty was simply off the table - far too disruptive not only for PSU and the peons you mention, but for the rest of the conference.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Mgo, those moneys tend to pay for their other sports more than for the football program. Besides, they're still free to raise funds for the football program, and I'm comparing it to the total cost of a death penalty. They're attempting to say that the $60 million represents the gross profits of one year's worth of football operations. Well, does that include TV monies and all ancillary monies? It surely doesn't include all the monies that would've been lost by those people whose incomes are at least partially dependent on Penn St football.

I agree with all of that. Regardless, a $60 million dollar hit is substantial, and has a real, tangible impact on the program, not a "symbolic" one.

[Van]

It's on that last score where I'm now wavering regarding my earlier feelings regarding the necessary severity of the sanctions. I felt they should have received a two-year death penalty. However, thinking about the way such a penalty would have also affected all those rank-and-file people (the hot dog vendors, parking lot attendents, ticket counters, stadium ushers, local bar owners, etc.), I've come to the conclusion that no, a death penalty would've been too much and that this is more of a proper punishment.

Well...how do you like that?

I'm not exactly sure why ANY punishment is appropriate for the people you mention, but that's now an academic matter.

That's my point. Punishing those people for the actions of a handful of football coaches and administrators would not be appropriate. I don't think that punishing the Penn St fans is appropriate either.

I do think that the football program and the university deserved severe punishment, however, which I feel they have now received.

A Death Penalty was simply off the table - far too disruptive not only for PSU and the peons you mention, but for the rest of the conference.

Listening to Emmerick's speech, it sure didn't sound like it was off the table. It sounds like it was very definitely front and center on the table before it was ultimately dismissed in lieu of more wide-ranging sanctions.

[Van]

Regardless, a $60 million dollar hit is substantial

Just tell me where to send the check.
-KC Scott

[FLW Buckeye]

ESPN just showed a telling video that some at PSU still don't get it. Students CRYING over the sanctions.

Yeah, still quite a few that haven't made it through deprogramming yet...

[Mikey]

12, 879.

I think you made that up.

[Roger_the_Shrubber]

Psufan,

Great post and thoughts.

RACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

You get it. It is a damn shame, all around. And the victims should be thought of first.

Scott

PS - can we have your great running back, please?

PPS - The death penalty can only be handed down when said University is already on probation.

[PSUFAN]

Tonight Emmert was interviewed on NPR, and he said that they considered the Death Penalty, but decided against it because it was "too blunt" an instrument, it would harm too many innocent parties.

[mvscal]

I've got two kids that are more precious than life itself to me. I think of what I'd do if anyone showed such a callous, blatant disregard for them as Joe showed for that kid that moment...he cared more about Tim Curley's weekend than he did that kid. I can't get past that statement.

Yep. McQueery isn't off the hook either. How the fuck can you just walk away from seeing some sick pervert assraping a young boy at your place of work? That singular act of moral cowardice will be the defining moment of his entire life. If he had any decency he would pen an apology and then suck on a .357.

[Van]

Tonight Emmert was interviewed on NPR, and he said that they considered the Death Penalty, but decided against it because it was "too blunt" an instrument, it would harm too many innocent parties.

Yeah, he definitely made it clear that the death penalty was on the table. It sounds like it was their initial inclination.

And damn it, when I was mistakenly referring to the guy over and over as "Emmerick," why didn't one of you correct me? It's "Emmert"!

EMMERT! Gah!

:x

[Van]

McQueery isn't off the hook either. How the fuck can you just walk away from seeing some sick pervert assraping a young boy at your place of work? That singular act of moral cowardice will be the defining moment of his entire life. If he had any decency he would pen an apology and then suck on a .357.

Don't count on it. If he had any decency, christ, he would've done the right thing in the first place.

[The Seer]

oooooh.....scholarship reductions.......sure destroyed SuC's recruiting.... /

[Van]

What, you mean they weren't still supposed to be able to put together #1 ranked recruiting classes despite the scholarship limits?

Hmmm. Maybe somebody should have told Lane Kiffin that. Apparently he didn't get the memo.

:twisted:

[M Club]

Some folk with reasonable perspectives:

http://deadspin.com/5928385/i-hope-u-al ... punishment


Van will no doubt read those tweets to point out their relevance to USC while Terry will post a quote-by-quote breakdown of their relationship to Catholic SAT scores in rural upstate NY.

[Van]

This one did make me laugh, with its edgy simplicity...

The NCAA is so gay for vacating Joe Pa's wins.
Unbelievable. #joepa #ncaaisstupid

[Shoalzie]

ESPN just showed a telling video that some at PSU still don't get it. Students CRYING over the sanctions.

I think some of it is mugging since that had a camera on them but I'm with you though...

[BSmack]

Some folk with reasonable perspectives:

http://deadspin.com/5928385/i-hope-u-al ... punishment

Van will no doubt read those tweets to point out their relevance to USC while Terry will post a quote-by-quote breakdown of their relationship to Catholic SAT scores in rural upstate NY.

I see mvscal weighed in.

Ill put money down that the NCAA is ran by a bunch of mvscals.

[PSUFAN]

The mural artist is a good friend of mine. I walked by and visited him the day he removed the halo from Joe and talked to him. He has had thousands of people reach him in support of the mural and his actions, and quite a lot of hate mail and threats and the like. He said his favorite was a dude that drove by in a jalopy who yelled, "put the halo back on, faggit!!"

[Goober McTuber]

You have to wonder how many underclassmen will stay faced with no more bowl games in their career, and the chance to transfer and play immediately.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Recall the big to-do over Kennedy being elected president? That was Huge News, the idea of a Catholic president.

You're using an example from 1960, before you or I were even born, as an example of where Catholics fit into American society today? Dude, for your own good, just eject now.

And while we're on that subject, let's use some more recent examples (since there are a few available), shall we?

- In the recently-concluded Republican primary cycle, two of the four finalists -- Santorum and Gingrich, the latter a convert -- were Catholic. I don't recall either facing anywhere near the level of scrutiny about his faith that Rmoney did.

- In 2008, the Democratic nominee for Vice-President was Catholic. I don't recall a single raised eyebrow from the MSM about that.

- In 2004, the Democratic nominee for President was Catholic. Again, I don't recall a single raised eyebrow from the MSM about that.

- In 1980, JFK's youngest brother threw his hat into the ring. There was plenty of discussion about his role in Chappaquiddick (sp?) back then. But about his faith? Not so much, at least not that I recall.

Yes, the influx of Mexicans into our country has tilted the percentage a bit towards Catholics, yet keep in mind that last year more Asians than Mexicans arrived on our shores. Most of them aren't Catholic.

The growth of the Hispanic demographic extends far beyond Mexicans. Remember, in my neck of the woods Mexicans don't exist, for all intensive purposes (save a handful of migrant farm workers), yet the Hispanic demographic is the fastest-growing demographic here as well. You also have Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, etc., etc. And as for Puerto Ricans, their numbers don't show up in legal (or illegal, for that matter) immigration stats, since Puerto Ricans, by definition, are U.S. citizens.

And, as someone already pointed out, I wonder what the number of practicing Catholics really is? I'm talking people who really get after it, as opposed to those who just pop in to make the obligatory appearance on the required occasions.

What do you suppose their number is? I'm guessing that if you remove the illegal aliens and their grandmothers with the rosary beads and if you also remove drunk Irishmen (redundant, I know), the real number is probably something like, oh 12, 879.

For purposes of this discussion, at least, WGARA? Remember, my initial point in posting that was to respond to PSUFAN's query about whether the Catholic Church should receive the death penalty.

I have no doubt that Mikey's number includes Catholics of my stripe, as well as a number of others. And those people still consider themselves Catholic. If we're talking about whether the Catholic Church should be shut down, who are you to tell them differently?

[PSUFAN]

Yes - we have to wonder what commits will stay, what current players will stay, and what kids will commit in the future.

Obviously this isn't an ideal thing to walk into - but our hopes lie with Bill O'Brien and the new offense he's bringing to PSU. Kids want to prepare for the NFL, and if he proves to be a good coach with an experienced staff with NFL and college experience, then kids will still want to play there.

Paraphrasing what he said he told the kids yesterday: playing in front of 100k+ at home games 7-8 times a year - these are their bowl games now.

We'll see how it goes. So far, a number of players have affirmed their willingness to stay, and most importantly, O'Brien himself has as well.

[Van]

There's good ol' Terry at it again, exaggerating the stature of his religion just as he does with his favorite college football team.



[Jerry Seinfeld]And what's the deal with these Pennsylvanians?[/Jerry Seinfeld]

http://news.yahoo.com/pa-monsignor-gets ... 17156.html

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

So the last time PSU officially won a game...Mike McQueary was the starting quarterback.

[M2]

So the last time PSU officially won a game...Mike McQueary was the starting quarterback.

and Sandusky was still coaching for PSU.

Weird shit.

[PSUFAN]

Fitting...

If there is one inconsequential sanction in this, imo, it is the vacating of wins. I understand that the Paterno statuepolishers took that news like a mortal wound, but oh well.

[Adelpiero]

I don't get the cries for the players?

They still get to play 12 games in a BCS conference, with the chance of proving their skills to scouts and possibly get drafted? Oh woah is me.

[Goober McTuber]

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- I have to admit, I expected NCAA president Mark Emmert to march out in military uniform, epaulets gleaming, and pronounce that he should be addressed as Generalissimo.

That press release Sunday, in which the NCAA announced that it would hand down punitive and corrective penalties to Penn State on Monday without its Committee on Infractions ever calling a meeting to order, sounded like the worst form of administrative justice. As anyone who has ever followed an infractions case knows, the NCAA may not use due process, but there is a process that evolves in due time. It can make the tortoise look like the hare -- ask USC. But the NCAA president is not a commissioner. He doesn't wield the imperial power of a Roger Goodell.

The announcement Sunday indicated that the NCAA would ignore its own rules -- not just the procedures but the entirety of the rulebook. Generalissimo Emmert had created his own shopping mall of justice -- a Banana Republic and a Gap. There was all the enforcement that came before Penn State, and there was Penn State.

You can read the hundreds of pages of the NCAA manual from now until the Nittany Lions run onto the field to play Ohio on Sept. 1, and you won't find a single rule that Penn State violated in this case. If that doesn't mean anything, why have a rulebook?

But then His Excellency spoke Monday morning, and it became clear why the NCAA came down so harshly so quickly on Penn State. Emmert and the university presidents who form the NCAA's executive committee saw this case as unprecedented. They saw that it had nothing to do with rules infractions. They saw the model of intercollegiate athletics as we know it at stake.

"There remains a sense of urgency in resolving this case, period," Emmert said. "It wasn't driven by the fall semester or the upcoming football season. The timing was simply that, following the work of both the criminal investigators and the Freeh report, the information was there. There was no compelling reason to delay the process."

"It was a unanimous sense," Oregon State president Ed Ray, the chair of the executive committee, said Monday. "We needed to act, and we needed to act quickly and effectively."

Every 20 years or so, university presidents rise from their slumber and reassert that they are in charge of the balls and the shoulder pads. In the early '90s, they reacted to the SMU death penalty by overhauling the NCAA structure. And now, in a visceral reaction to the Penn State scandal, the executive committee has leveled the harshest penalties short of the SMU case in NCAA history.

The presidents felt as if they are at war with an alien culture in which football made the decisions and the university kowtowed to it. That is antithetical to everything that the NCAA model represents, and a little too close to the truth for presidents to stomach. The smart ones live with the hypocrisy every day, secure in the knowledge that athletics unite the university community and create a spirit that builds buildings and fills laboratories.

When that hypocrisy resulted in a pedophile remaining at large, the university presidents didn't like what they saw, especially in the mirror. They lashed out as if they had been attacked.

As statements go, a $60 million fine, 40 scholarships, a four-year bowl ban and 112 vacated wins is right up there with the Magna Carta. The presidents put down new stakes on their property line. They are in charge. The importance of that principle supersedes any other consideration. If the Penn State players want to play in a bowl, they can leave their coaches and their classes and their friends and go somewhere else. (This case may be unprecedented, but as usual in the NCAA model, the current Penn State coaches and players are the victims of their predecessors' actions.)

Moreover, the culture the presidents attacked at Penn State no longer exists. What is left of Penn State is not a combatant. Former president Graham Spanier has been fired and disgraced. Former vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley will be on trial for perjury. Joe Paterno's memory has been stained, a scar bandaged in chain-link fencing where his statue once stood. The university will be in hock for millions in liability payments to the victims abused on its campus and because of its failure to see what is in plain view in hindsight.

It remains possible that the Freeh report didn't come down from Mount Sinai on stone tablets. The NCAA famously doesn't have subpoena power, yet it acted before the three central figures in the Penn State case who are still living have the opportunity to defend themselves -- and speak publicly -- in court. The Paterno family maintains that the whole story has not emerged.

The principle that the presidents are defending, that they are in charge, is worth defending. Nothing would have been lost if they had waited long enough for the remaining avenues to be explored.

Emmert and the presidents didn't care to wait. Let's hope that their impatience doesn't get in the way of their intentions.

[Van]

So the last time PSU officially won a game...Mike McQueary was the starting quarterback.

and Sandusky was still coaching for PSU.

Weird shit.

Killer exacta, right there.

[Van]

You can read the hundreds of pages of the NCAA manual from now until the Nittany Lions run onto the field to play Ohio on Sept. 1, and you won't find a single rule that Penn State violated in this case.

Nonsense. Penn St's actions met the requirements of at least a half-dozen LOIC definitions previously posted by the NCAA.

[PSUFAN]

Here's something I brought up at CF: You might see a few more of these guys want to stay. Why?

1. With everybody else bolting, there is sometimes an advantage of being the big fish in a little pond.

2. Think about how the media is going to be stuffed up PSU's ASSES at each and every game! They're going to be getting more coverage than ANY other program.

3. With all that media attention, you might just see one of their players bust loose and win the fucking Heisman (IF that were to be allowed).

Every challenge really is an opportunity. And honestly - who here won't be rooting for these kids, who had nothing whatsoever to do with Sandusky's crimes? The kids who stay will be a special breed.

[BSmack]

Fitting...

If there is one inconsequential sanction in this, imo, it is the vacating of wins.

Vacating wins is a joke. Will the bowl trophies PSU won be transferred to the teams they beat? Will Temple retroactively storm the field in celebration of their posthumous besting of JoePa?

Those wins were not vacated to punish JoePa or PSU. They were vacated so that the NCAA wouldn't have to live with the shame of a pedo-enabler having the all time record. In the grand scheme of things, so freaking what.

[Bucmonkey]

Half this board will be dead or collecting SS before PSU is a relevant football program again.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Half this board will be dead or collecting SS before PSU is a relevant football program again.

Most of the "experts" seem to think PSU will fully recover in about 8 years. I'd think most everyone here will be alive and kicking...except Wolfman and Goobs.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

You can read the hundreds of pages of the NCAA manual from now until the Nittany Lions run onto the field to play Ohio on Sept. 1, and you won't find a single rule that Penn State violated in this case.

Nonsense. Penn St's actions met the requirements of at least a half-dozen LOIC definitions previously posted by the NCAA.

He's right, the problem is, it doesn't matter at this point. What's done is done. A lot of people raised Maisel's very point -- that PSU didn't violate any specific by-laws. The only question was whether the NCAA would go outside the scope of their standard operating procedure and punish PSU. Personally, I didn't think they would. You didn't think they would either, but for different reasons...something about having an "out" and choosing the path of least resistance. Essentially, unprecedented events led to unprecedented action on the part of the NCAA.

[Screw_Michigan]

Those wins were not vacated to punish JoePa or PSU. They were vacated so that the NCAA wouldn't have to live with the shame of a pedo-enabler having the all time record. In the grand scheme of things, so freaking what.

It was great because it was a huge kick in the shorts for the faggot Paterno family.

[Van]

You can read the hundreds of pages of the NCAA manual from now until the Nittany Lions run onto the field to play Ohio on Sept. 1, and you won't find a single rule that Penn State violated in this case.

Nonsense. Penn St's actions met the requirements of at least a half-dozen LOIC definitions previously posted by the NCAA.

He's right, the problem is, it doesn't matter at this point. What's done is done. A lot of people raised Maisel's very point -- that PSU didn't violate any specific by-laws. The only question was whether the NCAA would go outside the scope of their standard operating procedure and punish PSU. Personally, I didn't think they would. You didn't think they would either, but for different reasons...something about having an "out" and choosing the path of least resistance. Essentially, unprecedented events led to unprecedented action on the part of the NCAA.

He's not right. Penn St was absolutely in violation of a good half-dozen very specific NCAA's specific by-laws, which I cut and pasted within this very thread.

While it's true that I felt the NCAA would take the easy road and do nothing, it's also true that I felt the NCAA with its broad umbrella of LOIC definitions would be well within their jurisdiction to sanction Penn St. Once I looked up the specific rules and language, it was clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that Penn St's actions met those definitions.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

The NCAA didn't apply punishment based on any specific by-laws because they didn't do their own investigation, and because, again, there were no applicable by-laws to cite. They used only the facts based on the Freeh Report. You're right in that they did use a broad umbrella of LOIC (unethical conduct) to punish PSU.

[PSUFAN]

Half this board will be dead or collecting SS before PSU is a relevant football program again.

hmm, tell that to Ohio U on Sept 1.

[PSUFAN]

I felt the NCAA would take the easy road and do nothing,

Why? Sheer cynicism? Or because that's essentially what happened where USC was concerned?

Seriously - the NCAA hasn't exactly been popular of late, for many reasons. I think most of us saw that they were going to act swiftly and strongly on this one. They has a lot of ground to make up.