The Case Against Liberal Compassion

[matteric]

But it is an interesting read. The point the author (who is pimping a book) makes is that liberals care more about feeling like they are helping someone or something (e.g., by voting for liberal causes) than about whether the result of their vote actually helps someone or something. ?

God god... you're a long winded bitch...(typical republican)


Oh yeah, mix in a paragraph once in a while. It might help you... if you want to get your point across.


If you actually went to a University with an English Dept., your professor would have knocked your head up sideways.




I took what you were trying to get across and quoted it.



By the way, I agree wholeheartedly with the thesis... if it refers to Liberals in San Francisco (which run the country).

San Franciscans have so much money and power... they think it makes them look cool to vote as Democrats (who care about the less privileged)






I explained this in detail...yesterday, but it was sent to trots. (Nice going tards)


http://www.theoneboard.com/board/viewto ... 28#p880228




Looks like Republicans thrive on FEAR... and that's exactly why they are in the predicament they find themselves in today.


Shit out of luck.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I listened to a podcast on this type of thing the other day (the science behind "altruism").

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/e ... sh-act.htm

"But researchers found that the subjects that contributed to charities did receive some benefit: the warm-fuzzies. In the study, 19 female volunteers had a choice: They could keep money or donate it to charities of differing ideologies. The researchers found that giving money activated the same reward center in the brain that was activated when the participants received money."

[Left Seater]

I can see some validity in what 88, Mgo and shocker, m2 posted. That said there must be a division between liberal politicians and the liberal neighbors. For that matter all politicians.

Most of us at our core have a decent level of compassion. We don't want to see people or animals or other living things suffer. That said there is often a huge difference in how we approach it.

To m2's point, the super rich liberal elite are voting democratic because it is a social and power status symbol for them. They can show they care by "supporting" compassion by signing a check or voting for an issue at the polls. I firmly believe they want to help people, but they don't so much want to get their hands dirty. They would rather put on a tux and ballroom gowns and write a check while eating on fine china and drinking champagne than going to the local woman's shelter and teaching a class on financial savings. This group is fine with the government doing the heavy lifting. As Mgo pointed out they get "warm fuzzies" from their donation and or vote.

This isn't necessarily wrong, but it is a very shallow jump into the compassion pool IMO. Just giving money or appropriating money hasn't gotten us any closer to wiping out poverty in this country. To the author's point that 88 alluded to these rich powerful folks don't seem to care that the programs they vote to fund or support are often horrific failures or at best produce mediocre success on huge expenditures. These same people would fire employees at their companies for such horrible results or they would fire their investment bankers for such pitiful returns on their mountains of wealth.

One thing is sure though, despite huge expenditures, government has lost the battle with poverty.

[Left Seater]

The war on poverty was fought wrong from the start. Subsidizing more kids through tax breaks for dependents is 100% in the wrong direction. You want to break the cycle of poverty, you tax children so the poor stop having them and BAM! poverty cycle ceases

The poor already aren't paying taxes so why would they care if you added another one to the books? Further since they aren't paying taxes now how is a tax break on an additional kid an incentive for them?

[Rooster]

Totalitarianism is the logical end result of modern liberal thinking.

[Left Seater]

The poor already aren't paying taxes

It boggles my mind how many people actually believe that.

Of course, as a percentage of their income and wealth, the poor pay more in taxes than the wealthy.

Clearly we are talking income taxes. Tax credits and tax breaks don't factor in much on sales and gas taxes.

[Moving Sale]

And right wing tards only care about themselves. At least the left trys to care.

[Dinsdale]

And right wing tards only care about themselves. At least the left trys to care.

False

[Moving Sale]

And right wing tards only care about themselves. At least the left trys to care.

False

The thread is about compassion not guilt.

[War Wagon]

The poor already aren't paying taxes

It boggles my mind how many people actually believe that.

Of course, as a percentage of their income and wealth, the poor pay more in taxes than the wealthy.

I personally know people who get more back on their fed return than they paid in.

That boggles my mind as well as pisses me off. They are getting back the money I paid in and laughing all the way to the bank.

[Dinsdale]

And right wing tards only care about themselves. At least the left trys to care.

False

The thread is about compassion not guilt.

Utter stupidity. People who give to charities, do so because they want to help a particular cause. People who vote for "liberal" candidates and causes, do so because they think they want to help... somebody, but don't actually want to lift a finger to do so, and figure everyone else should pay for it.

So, your point was almost valid, except it was the exact opposite of the truth.

[Moving Sale]

Utter stupidity. People who give to charities, do so because they want to help a particular cause.

One third of which is to religions. Factor in that Rs give to religions at a higher rate (I pulled that out if my ass but I doubt you can prove it isn't true) and we have a situation where, once again, I am right and you are wrong.

[Dr_Phibes]

Do you have similar experiences with your liberal friends? What do they say when you ask them why the trillions spent on liberal programs produce no real results?

That's why I like you, comrade. Your points could have come out of 'Combat Liberalism' by Mao or 'Critique of the Gotha Programme' by Marx. When you explain the workings of the capitalist system it borders on Marxist

'It is easier to have sympathy with suffering, than to have sympathy with thought'

- Oscar Wilde

[matteric]

Bottom line.... take care of your own trip.

My old man was a printer here in San Francisco, while my mom was a mover and shaker and went to TCU, Colorado at Boulder, and got her Masters at San Francisco State and Phd at Stanfurd..


When I mention that the "Big Game" is coming up... she says... that's nice honey. Completely oblivious to what it means here in the Bay Area who grew up here.


By the way... Cal is going to kick some nerd ASS... this weekend.


Anyways, you need to pull 70 hour weeks no matter what your gig is here... if you even want to have a half decent style of living here... south of Market (Soma)


While it is the most spectacular lifestyle the world has ever seen... it comes at a cost...

I

[Rooster]

"And right wing tards only care about themselves. At least the left trys to care." --Sale

And intent is the only thing that matters, right? Trying isn't the same thing as doing, but like piles of flowers and teddy bears around accident sites or violence, the emotion of the moment for Lefties is key. Everything about progressives is based on emotion and a sense of participation with little cost. If you display the correct amount of indignation, grief, outrage, or empathy you have done your collective part and can go back to your regularly scheduled programming. Oh, give a few dollars to a cause ? Sure! And now you can feel go about yourself for having tried to make a difference.

[Left Seater]

I'm an atheist. But I give quite a hefty chunk of ducats each year to The Salvation Army, which is basically a church. Why? Because I really dig the way they handle donations and run their operations.

I still give a lot of money to the Salvation Army. I don't eat the church they serve at each meal, but I dig the way they handle people in need. Help yourself or get the fuck out of our face. Makes sense to me.

I never give cash to the United Way. What a fucking scam. They siphon off 30% or so for overhead, distribute the remainder to ineffective shitty organizations and basically do not accomplish shit. Might as well give that money to Uncle Sam. He has the same track record in terms of actually accomplishing anything.

Couldn't agree more. The Seater's don't give a dime to United Way.

The reason churches and service organizations do so much better than the Government or say United Way is because people are donating their time as well. Instead of having a unionized government employee doing the heavy lifting, volunteers are doing the same thing for no money. Take this into consideration when you are making your donations. Especially if your employer has one of those auto deductions to United Way.

[mvscal]

Totalitarianism is the logical end result of modern liberal thinking.

We saw a prime example of that last night. "Congress won't act on my priorities? Fuck it. I'll just do it anyway."

Since when did that become a constitutionally acceptable response?

[Left Seater]

You can do something about your overall tax burden starting with moving to a state that doesn't rape you with income and property and sales taxes.

On the Federal side you use more than you realize. The poor might be using the social services end of things but they aren't using nearly as much of the infrastructure.

That said we need a Federal flat tax of 10%. No deductions for anything. No taxes due for any wage earner who makes less than $15,000. Move the corporate tax rate to 10% and remove all deductions.

[War Wagon]

the Salvation Army was hands down the best group I ever worked with. They used 100% of dollars donated in their charitable operations (i.e., no overhead), and did things the right way.

Good to hear that.

I always drop whatever spare change I might have into the SA bucket.

The other day my faggot, vegetarian nephew puts up a post a FB saying don't support the SA because they don't support gay rights. This is my twice divorced sisters son, I am not proud.

He lives in faggot central Boston. A couple years ago he came to visit and we all went to Smokehouse, a KC bbq shrine. He ordered fish and I paid for it. :brad: :brad: :brad:

[Dr_Phibes]

I think people are basically good, and have good feelings about their fellow man and will naturally default to a place where they will sort shit out on their own in non-hostile, mutually advantageous ways. I perceive that you think people are stupid fucking sheep, who need to be herded, culled when necessary, and provided with sufficient cunt cookies to exist provided that existence serves some other end. But there are no rainbows in your world, Phibes. And that makes me sad.

But to get from A to C, you require a B in between. It isn't based on what feels cool man. We all know how we'd like things to be, but it has little bearing on reality. An empirical study of history rather than a pure vision of how things should be, creates a successful plan of action. Rather than reinforcing failure.

[Atomic Punk]

Awww, touching the atheists give to charities. Why is that? Inner guilt for justification for denial of a higher power? If I was an atheist it would be to screw over as many people as possible to give my short-assed life the best options in life. After all, when you die then nothing matters right? No accountability for good or evil then. You just cease to exist. So why bother doing good?

[smackaholic]

I think people are basically good, and have good feelings about their fellow man and will naturally default to a place where they will sort shit out on their own in non-hostile, mutually advantageous ways. I perceive that you think people are stupid fucking sheep, who need to be herded, culled when necessary, and provided with sufficient cunt cookies to exist provided that existence serves some other end. But there are no rainbows in your world, Phibes. And that makes me sad.

But to get from A to C, you require a B in between. It isn't based on what feels cool man. We all know how we'd like things to be, but it has little bearing on reality. An empirical study of history rather than a pure vision of how things should be, creates a successful plan of action. Rather than reinforcing failure.

Actually, I think you have it backwards, 88. People are inherently self centered a-holes. The realization of this fact leads sensible folk to think that putting power into someone else's hands leads to bad things. Libs on the other hand, live in a fairy tale world where they think if we just put the power in the hands of smart folks like that MIT goober dude, they will take care of us stupid folks that can't do it on our own.

[Wolfman]

If we simplified the tax code it would put a lot of lawyers and accountants out of work. I remember Steve Forbes example of doing your income tax on a post card. Never happen. The folks in DC, government officials, staffers, lobbyists are all living high on the hog. They are not about to give that up and have to look for work. I'll be safely entombed in my columbarium when it all comes crashing down. Sadly not just the lefties/statists who produced the chaos will be affected. Good luck.

[Left Seater]

If we simplified the tax code it would put a lot of lawyers and accountants out of work. I remember Steve Forbes example of doing your income tax on a post card. Never happen. The folks in DC, government officials, staffers, lobbyists are all living high on the hog. They are not about to give that up and have to look for work. I'll be safely entombed in my columbarium when it all comes crashing down. Sadly not just the lefties/statists who produced the chaos will be affected. Good luck.

While you might be correct, nothing will ever change unless we start the push now.

[Wolfman]

My generation is too tired to push back, and I don't think it is just me. I've voted Conservative/Republican all my life and it seems like I wasted my time. It will take an awakening/wising up of the late baby boomers and GenXers to change things to some sense of fiscal and social responsibility. Sorry you get left such a mess.

[Wolfman]

Hey JSC open your eyes. Wasn't the mega $$$ stimulus bill supposed to do all that? I see nothing of any substance that was built. Where the hell did that money go??? We were able to do it during the freaking depression. Built schools, parks, roads, bridges, items that at least that people could could see and have a sense of accomplishment. Up until recently we had NASA going to the moon, we had a huge modern military that kept the peace. Where is that today, and with a budget that is out of control? I give up.

[Left Seater]

Here's part of your problem and many others, Jsc. You speak as if this is a one or the other situation. If the 1% is growing wealth then they must be taking it from the other 99%. That is completely wrong and only leads to class warfare.

Further your point about the wealth held by the top 1% vs the bottom 90% is misleading at best and completely irrelevant. Of course the top 1% is going to have more than the lowest who have zero wealth.

For those concerned about the wealth of the lowest 25% you should focus there not on the top. There are plenty of studies that show the poor and nearly poor are far more concerned with material possessions than the rest of us. Why do public housing residents "of all races" have flat screen TVs, cell phones, stereos, automobiles with tricked out wheels and lifts, beats headphones, designer glasses and handbags, shoes more expensive than their monthly income, etc, etc, etc? The reason is they value material items far more than wealth or their neighborhood.

The same goes for the middle class. There are plenty of folks with a nice house in a good neighborhood with two leased SUVs with all the latest gadgets in their home, both kids have tablets and cell phones, they have some sort of club membership, have the latest fashions in their wardrobe, eat out 5 plus nights per week, etc, etc, etc. Because of their spending problem they have no savings, aren't putting anything away in their 401K therefore missing out on an employee match and have 5 credit cards almost maxed out. A serious injury or job loss brings their house of cards down. They also value material things or their social standing over wealth or long term security.

So if you want to focus on changing the gap between those who have wealth and those who don't, start with these two groups, not the top 1%.

[poptart]

RACK Wolfie!


Jsc, why don't you try answering his question, you silly twat?

YOU proposed a "new deal," and that's basically what the stimulus was supposed to be.

So wtf happened to all the jack, all the jobs, all the new structures?






And your fools, Bernie and Lizzie were right in lock step with the stimulus, weren't they?

Yep.

How are these idiots going to help us?


You're lost.

Throw your laptop, pad, phone (whatever) in the gulf next time you go fishing.

Seriously.

[Moving Sale]

Let them eat cake.

[Diego in Seattle]

The cake is a lie.

[Roger_the_Shrubber]

It worked for Robin Hood. Oh, wait...it didn't. After Richard died John ruled for 39 years and England was screwed again.

[Moving Sale]

The cake is a lie.

The lie is the notion that government can improve the lives of people by stealing from some of them and then redistributing the loot to others.

Again, let them eat cake.

[Diego in Seattle]

The cake is a lie.

The lie is the notion that government can improve the lives of people by stealing from some of them and then redistributing the loot to others.

Obviously not only is compassion one of your fails, but humor is as well.

And the real lies are that "a rising tide lifts all boats" as well as "trickle down" (which was just the middle & lower classes being pissed on).

[Left Seater]

Oh so, an end to a recession doesn't help everyone? :doh:


Where is your outrage at the billions spent on helping the poor, without any success?

[smackaholic]

There is a fairly simple answer as to why the bottom 90% have been hosed over the last 40 years. The answer is literally all around you. Start with your shoes. I will bet nobody has a pair of american made shoes on. Somewhere around hree, I actually have some american made NB sneaks, but, it is hard as hell to find them. Even 150 dollar hiking boots made by name brand makers that used to have factories here are making their shit in china. How bout that 500 dollar smart phone? 500 bucks? must be american made ,right? fukk no, it ain't. All the new deal programs in the world will not bring back a manufacturing base. Also, those ND projects were done before "prevailing wage". A new New Deal project would require 35 dollar/hr shovel leaners.

Somewhere in Texas a jug earred midget bazillionaire is smiling, saying I fukking tried to tell you fukkers 20+ years ago. Of course the bought and paid for media has conveniently forgotten about him. We need someone now who is part Ross Perot and part Ron Paul. Maybe that dude is Rand Paul. I just hope the republicans don't trot out another Bush or any of the other old fukks who figure it is their turn. And somebody needs to shoot Mitt, just in case he gets the itch again. Although, judging by last time, he didn't really seem to have much of an itch at all. If he did, he did a piss poor job of scratching it.