Ross Perot--tits up

[Jay in Phoenix]

Actually, I asked Sale, not you.

But I went page by page through the report. One thing that was troubling was a lot of the tests did not go all the way across the lakes, just small portions. On top of that, none of the photos really "show" anything. Also, you have yet to site any other source that backs up Fecore's testing.

However, there is this:

The FECORE team did not attempt to prove that the Earth is flat at Lake Balaton.

During the entire course of the experiment they did not use any of the standard Geodetic survey tools; such as an internationally approved Theodolite/Auto level, GPS tracker, level staff, ranging rod, retro-reflector and surveyor’s tripod.

They did not place level staffs or sighting targets at various marker points along the Lake Balaton shoreline, to demonstration progressive tracking of Earth flatness over length.

They did not stake laser reflectors at various locations along the shoreline, and target them with a laser beam to demonstrate that the beam is truly pointed parallel to the water's surface over distance. That is a primary requirement to corroborate flatness.

The FECORE team did however, attempt thru a single measurement, to imply "proof by contradiction."

Proof by contradiction is a form of indirect proof, that establishes the truth or validity of a proposition. It starts by assuming that the opposite proposition is true, and then shows that such an assumption leads to a contradiction.

The error in this type of approach is the "assumption" that the Earth can only have two possible valid shapes - either flat or spherical. Attempting to prove that the Earth is not spherical, does not authenticate that the Earth is flat. And other flat Earth supporters willingly testify that the Earth is concave, convex, or undoubtedly a flat plane with as yet unmeasured total dimensions.

The shore-to-shore laser test should not have been wrapped up at the 12-km distance mark. Data at 12-km is not conclusive. That is around the FUZZY distance where, a) optical refraction, b) no precise measurements of source and target height above the water line, and c) no exact distance between source and target established - create a situation where a few meters can be argued about back and forth.
This is what they delivered, and why their claim will forever be in dispute

To definitively prove flatness shore-to-shore measurements at 20-km, 30-km, 40-km, 50-km, 60-km and further are required. But FECORE did not render that.

There's more if you need it, but this is enough.

The only thing Fecore wanted to prove was that they could get peoples donations. Nice fraud.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

You should be sourcing your quotes...just sayin'...

[Jay in Phoenix]

You should be sourcing your quotes...just sayin'...

I did once, earlier in the thread.

edit--It was another thread, but the new link I quoted has more info.

[Softball Bat]

That's fair. Please, offer your resources. I'll keep my mind open, however the math has to conclusively prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the Earth is not a globe.

From the link that you C&P'd...

Attempting to prove that the Earth is not spherical, does not authenticate that the Earth is flat.



You moved the goal post, Jayne.

You asked for resources showing the earth is not a globe.

Right?

Nod your dumb head.



Fecore...

- Experiment results of the seven tests indicates there is no curvature on the lake surfaces.

- The surface of Lake Balaton and Lake Ijssel is not convex and curvature is not detectable.

One thing that was troubling was a lot of the tests did not go all the way across the lakes, just small portions.

The curvature on your globe is uniform across a lake, isn't it?

If not, explain yourself.

[Jay in Phoenix]

You moved the goal post, Jayne.

You asked for resources showing the earth is not a globe.

Right?

Sure, but you haven't provided any. I didn't move any goal posts. The article I quoted shows the hypocrisy behind Fecore's falsified testing.

The curvature on your globe is uniform across a lake, isn't it?

If not, explain yourself.

I don't need to. That portion of the article already did. You really don't want me to give you the rest, as it is truly incriminating on the methods and tactics Fecore applies to their so-called "science".

Stay down dumbass. Quit while you're behind.

[Softball Bat]

The curvature on your globe is uniform across a lake, isn't it?

If not, explain yourself.

I don't need to. That portion of the article already did. You really don't want me to give you the rest, as it is truly incriminating on the methods and tactics Fecore applies to their so-called "science".

LMAO!

No, you have NOTHING.

And that is why you didn't answer the question.


Fecore's equipment and methods were faulty (you claim), and yet the 7 results they have do not show varying results with each test.

No, the results are all consistent.

The curvature for your very dumb globe is -----> not present.
Essentially flat water in each instance.


That's a bitch for you, I know.

You are a dumb sheep.

[Softball Bat]

The shore-to-shore laser test should not have been wrapped up at the 12-km distance mark. Data at 12-km is not conclusive. That is around the FUZZY distance where, a) optical refraction, b) no precise measurements of source and target height above the water line, and c) no exact distance between source and target established - create a situation where a few meters can be argued about back and forth.
This is what they delivered, and why their claim will forever be in dispute

To definitively prove flatness shore-to-shore measurements at 20-km, 30-km, 40-km, 50-km, 60-km and further are required. But FECORE did not render that.

Really?

rotf...



Test 3 was 21 km
Test 4 was 29 km
Test 6 was 40 km
Test 7 was 40 km

https://fecore.org/final-results-fecore ... e-surface/



Read it and weep.

[Jay in Phoenix]

You wanted more...okay then.


Due to laser beam divergence and atmospheric turbulence, out past 6-miles it would be practically impossible to keep a laser beam parallel to the frozen surface.

For a laser, even a collimated beam does not remain pencil thin forever. It diverges (spreads out) with distance. And the round outer-edge of the laser divergent beam is effected by optical refraction.

The correct tool for this type of experiment is to use the same equipment that a professional surveyor uses. Theodolite/Auto level, GPS tracker, level staff, ranging rod, retro-reflector and surveyor’s tripod.

A standard Auto level (shown below) has a total measurement angle of uncertainly (plus or minus) of 0.5 arc-seconds. That is equivalent to 0.0024 MRAD.

Compared to the FECORE laser with an advertised specification beam divergence of 0.08 MRAD, the Auto level is 33 times more accurate.



There is something wrong in the neighborhood, because they advertised using a 3-watt laser, when in reality they only bought a 1-watt green laser from goldlaser.hu



Here is the "World Class" experiment FECORE pledged to deliver to corporate and individual donors, in January and February 2018. But not a single detail of what they presented, was delivered.

The original January target date was missed because there was no ice on Lake Balaton. BUT - they should have known that since easily obtainable weather history is available, and it shows that only for 1 in 10 years does it freeze.

This demonstrates a deficiency in proper planning.

No ice
Not a single team assembled
No 66.88-km laser shot
No boats
No calibration done
No independent professional surveyor
No guarantee that the laser beam parallel to the water's surface
No atmospheric measurements made, so no refraction evaluation

Yes - they publicized this as a world record setting event, to get your donation money

Enjoy your shaming.

[Softball Bat]

Thank you sir. May I have another?

You kicked your own ass with your previous post, and now you've done it again.

Here is the "World Class" experiment FECORE pledged to deliver to corporate and individual donors, in January and February 2018. But not a single detail of what they presented, was delivered.

Not delivered?
lol


pssst...

Earth to Jayne...

https://fecore.org/final-results-fecore ... e-surface/

Read the report, 'tard, and stop clowning yourself.


Test 7 - April 22 (2018)
Test 6 - April 22
Test 5 - April 22
Test 4 - April 8
Test 3 - April 8
Test 2 - February 26
Test 1 - February 22

[Jay in Phoenix]

While poptard continues to bray like a beaten jackass, here is some more fodder for him to feed on. He continues to lean on and believe Fecalcore's falsified reports and uses no other source to substantiate their claims. His head firmly planted in the sand that has been pounded up his ass, he puffs his chest with false pride and denies all opposing proof of their sham.

Want a good laugh? There is a documentary available on Youtube called "Behind the Curve". It was designed as a fist to the face of all those who believe in a globe Earth. By the end of this travesty, the joke is on them. Check it out for yourselves, but here is a review.

Newsweek covered it, but their website is wonky, so here is the SyFy channel one.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/netflix-f ... -theorists

[Kierland]

“Yes, those who accept the onslaught of NASA video footage documenting decades of space exploration as real and true will simply be amused by Behind the Curve.”
The first substantial line was not science. It was more poisoning of the well. The use of the word “onslaught” sets the reader up for Round Erf. The line then goes on to talk about NASA as though it’s video is proof when it has never even been authenticated by any scientific method.
These are tactics used by people who have no idea what they are talking about and resort to fallacies because they can’t use logic.

[Jay in Phoenix]

“Yes, those who accept the onslaught of NASA video footage documenting decades of space exploration as real and true will simply be amused by Behind the Curve.”
The first substantial line was not science. It was more poisoning of the well. The use of the word “onslaught” sets the reader up for Round Erf. The line then goes on to talk about NASA as though it’s video is proof when it has never even been authenticated by any scientific method.
These are tactics used by people who have no idea what they are talking about and resort to fallacies because they can’t use logic.

Now take that same mirror and hold it up to the image of Fecore and flat Earth wonks. The reflection is hysterical and staggering.

Fecore is a fraud, a money grab and nothing more. NASA was back then, nothing but science. There is literally tons of proof of the moon landing and space exploration, you're just being too stubborn to see it.

[mvscal]

I thought this was a thread about Ross Perot only to find out that the giant sucking sound coming from it was air flowing into Poptard’s vacuous dome. Give it a rest, punchy. You’ve already proven beyond a doubt how stupid you are.

He's doing quite well, pretty impressive. Popeturd is trolling well and he's got dummys on the hook. He's doing everything it takes to make tards melt. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not to serve bulgogi next year. Got it. Or kimchi or whatever the hell they serve.

[Jay in Phoenix]

He's doing quite well, pretty impressive. Popeturd is trolling well and he's got dummys on the hook. He's doing everything it takes to make tards melt. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not to serve bulgogi next year. Got it. Or kimchi or whatever the hell they serve.

Bwah! Fuzzy resets still work.

Too bad it isn't a troll job. That would be epic. This...this is something else.

[mvscal]

GO FUCK A TURTLE!! YOU HAVE NO STANDING HERE!!

[Jay in Phoenix]

GO FUCK A TURTLE!! YOU HAVE NO STANDING HERE!!

[Softball Bat]

While poptard continues to bray like a beaten jackass, here is some more fodder for him to feed on...

Eject, Jayne.

Everyone can see that you kicked your own ass badly with your last two posts.

Fecore is a fraud, a money grab and nothing more.

Certainly not based on anything you've posted.

[Softball Bat]

Want a good laugh? There is a documentary available on Youtube called "Behind the Curve". It was designed as a fist to the face of all those who believe in a globe

I have not watched it and will say that whatever is presented does not necessarily match up with what I think.
So, yeah...


My own suspicion about Behind the Curve is that it is "controlled opposition."

Put forth as something supposedly in support of flat earth, but with the agenda to actually damage flat earth.

But, again, I have never watched it and it means NOTHING to me.




#whatever

[Jay in Phoenix]

Not at all surprised by yet another head in the sand reaction. Your "suspicion" is completely wrong. The video is pro-flat Earth and is in places, somewhat sympathetic to their cause. It's only by the end that they shoot themselves in the foot with their "scientific methods". Their facial expressions when they realize how badly they erred is priceless.

No agendas other than their own. Pure lunacy.

[Kierland]

“Yes, those who accept the onslaught of NASA video footage documenting decades of space exploration as real and true will simply be amused by Behind the Curve.”
The first substantial line was not science. It was more poisoning of the well. The use of the word “onslaught” sets the reader up for Round Erf. The line then goes on to talk about NASA as though it’s video is proof when it has never even been authenticated by any scientific method.
These are tactics used by people who have no idea what they are talking about and resort to fallacies because they can’t use logic.

Now take that same mirror and hold it up to the image of Fecore and flat Earth wonks. The reflection is hysterical and staggering.

Fecore is a fraud, a money grab and nothing more. NASA was back then, nothing but science. There is literally tons of proof of the moon landing and space exploration, you're just being too stubborn to see it.

They may be a fraud but you seem to admit that the laser works out to 6miles and still shows no curve. Do I have that about right?

[Jay in Phoenix]

They may be a fraud but you seem to admit that the laser works out to 6miles and still shows no curve. Do I have that about right?

Glad to see you admit they "may" be a fraud. You can push your chips all in on that one, don't be shy. But no, I never admitted to the laser showing no curve. Where did you get that from?

[Kierland]

My apologies. It’s been a long discussion in many threads and I must have remembered it wrong. What exactly is your position about the curve, or lack there of, of water when said water is in a large body of water?

[Softball Bat]

Want a good laugh? There is a documentary available on Youtube called "Behind the Curve". It was designed as a fist to the face of all those who believe in a globe Earth. By the end of this travesty, the joke is on them. Check it out for yourselves, but here is a review.

Newsweek covered it, but their website is wonky, so here is the SyFy channel one.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/netflix-f ... -theorists

What does Behind the Curve have to do with the Fecore laser tests?

lol



My goodness, you are a disaster, Jayne.

Keep flailing for exercise.

[Softball Bat]

They may be a fraud but you seem to admit that the laser works out to 6miles and still shows no curve. Do I have that about right?

But no, I never admitted to the laser showing no curve. Where did you get that from?

A few days ago...

The shore-to-shore laser test should not have been wrapped up at the 12-km distance mark. Data at 12-km is not conclusive.

So what did you mean by this?


And at any rate, I immediately came in and showed you that they did test at multiple times at distances much further than 12 km.

You shit the bed.



Jayne doesn't even know what she is posting.

She is flailing.

[Softball Bat]

The video is pro-flat Earth and is in places, somewhat sympathetic to their cause. It's only by the end that they shoot themselves in the foot with their "scientific methods". Their facial expressions when they realize how badly they erred is priceless.

mmm hmmm

And if it is a pro-flat earth production, why did they choose to make a mockery of it at the end?

lol



You
dumb

[Jay in Phoenix]

Obsessing much Pops?

3 replies when one would suffice? Am I that deep in your dome?

At any rate. The documentary is related to Fecore in that they both support Flat Earth nonsense. They don't have to be directly tied to each other via the laser tests, they both support the same thing. That's relation enough.

As to that testing, you are aware that they didn't fire the laser's directly across the lake at a parallel, they aimed them slightly skyward. This simple fact nullifies their fraudulent tests.

Since you haven't (and won't) watch the video, you cannot speak to it. They didn't "choose" to make a mockery of it. They performed a pair of tests that they were positive would back up their theories and it was pointed out that they completely blew it. This wasn't their goal, it's just what they deservedly got. All critics who have reviewed the doc have said that it is surprisingly sympathetic to the people the film makers covered. There was no agenda from the get-go, they let the chips fall where they did.

The Flatsters couldn't prove their theories and neither can Fecore.

You are buying into a flat pig in a hoaxed poke.

Not sorry you had to find out this way.

[Softball Bat]

1. I am obsessing? lol Dude, did I start this discussion? Did I start the last one? I do not start these flat earth discussions.


2. I am being POLITE. That is why I responded as comprehensively as I could to you -- with three posts


3.

At any rate. The documentary is related to Fecore in that they both support Flat Earth nonsense. They don't have to be directly tied to each other via the laser tests, they both support the same thing. That's relation enough.

ummm...

No.

You have seriously got to be kidding me with this shit here. lol

Fecore is not Behind the Curve.

This was a stupid diversion on your part.

Sack the fuck up.

The end.


4.

As to that testing, you are aware that they didn't fire the laser's directly across the lake at a parallel, they aimed them slightly skyward. This simple fact nullifies their fraudulent tests.

1. So you believe Fecore carried out the 7 tests?

2. On what page of the report is this?

[Jay in Phoenix]

1. I am obsessing? lol Dude, did I start this discussion? Did I start the last one? I do not start these flat earth discussions.

You started it in this thread, with a response to 'Spray. This is on you buddy.

2. I am being POLITE. That is why I responded as comprehensively as I could to you -- with three posts

Polite? Here are just a few examples of you being "polite".

"#assclown
Read the report, assclown.
Jayne wrote
Groups of very dumb pack animals.
Barking, growling, and pissing all over the place.
#tard
Jayne said...
Jayne started the discussion, twat.
Get your dumb little @ss back in the kitchen, Jayne.
You are a dumb sheep.
Jayne doesn't even know what she is posting.
She is flailing."

Certainly there are worse things to be said, and you have, however your definition of polite is a bit...warped.

Fecore is not Behind the Curve.

This was a stupid diversion on your part.

I didn't say they were moron. I said their agendas were the same. Learn to fucking read. The only diversion going on is the one inside your head.

1. So you believe Fecore carried out the 7 tests?

2. On what page of the report is this?

Where did I say they carried out 7 tests? I said that whatever tests they ran were skewed and fraudulent.

To sum this up:

1. You are a liar.
2. You are anything but polite. You are also certainly not a true Christian.
3. You can't read, reason or think for yourself.
4. You have put all of your broken eggs in one Fecalcore basket and been shown repeatedly that they are a fraud. Yet you keep diving in headfirst.
5. You are in constant denial of the real world around you.
6. You know nothing about science.

I could go on, but this is sufficient.

Now go ahead and last word whore this shit.

[smackaholic]

Has there been a thread in the last decade or so, that got past page 2 without morphing into ....



I doubt it.

[Kierland]

I still don’t know if Jay thinks the water in large bodies of water is flat.

[Jay in Phoenix]

I still don’t know if Jay thinks the water in large bodies of water is flat.

Not wanting to drag this on, but I'll answer your question as you asked politely.

Is water flat in a large body or bed? It all depends. If it is a windless day and weather conditions are right, then the surface will appear flat. Note I said "appear". Water is rarely still. You will for instance, never see a flat ocean or sea. Rivers are constantly in motion. Most large lakes, like the Great Lakes by example, have waves like an ocean does. If the water is in motion, it isn't "flat".

If this doesn't answer your question, refine the parameters.

[Kierland]

I meant are they a straight line along the top or do they curve with the erf.

[Jay in Phoenix]

I'll answer your question this way:

The surface of all water is curved. Even a small lake’s surface follows the curvature of the Earth. We just don’t notice it in such a small body.

It is not only water that has this effect, much of the interior of the Earth itself is liquid and the continents float on this. Gravity causes the planet to be round because every part of it is pulled to the center but this motion to the center is opposed by pressure.

In fact the new definition of “planet” includes that it must have enough mass to overcome the strength of the rocks and whatever else it is made of such that they are all forced (crushed) into a roughly spherical shape. The “minor” planets are called that because they are not round. The round shape is due to an equilibrium between gravity and pressure. A spheroid is the only stable shape possible.

What does “stable” mean? It means a condition or shape that if pushed by some external force to be different will return the the same condition when the force is removed The curved shape of the water is due to a stable equilibrium or balance between pressure and gravity

There is another way to make water round: Surface tension. Water molecules have electric charges that cause them to be attracted to each other. But the last layer of molecules in a water drop are special because they only have other water to one side but not on the other side. They flip around and attract to each others and form a kind of ballon-like shell that compresses the water inside. In the water drop we have the same balance of pressure pushing out and surface tension pushing in and we see the same lowest energy equilibrium shape, a sphere. But this effect only works on smaller drop of water, on larger ones gravity dominates.

But with micro gravity, like on the space station they can make water drops as large as eggs

Per Quora Planetary Science

[Kierland]

So I guess we are back to when I said why can I then see across Lake Tahoe and you said something to the effect of please provide a pic.

[Jay in Phoenix]

So I guess we are back to when I said why can I then see across Lake Tahoe and you said something to the effect of please provide a pic.

How so? I gave you the basic science behind water and whether it's flat or not. How do we now go back to Lake Tahoe? Where is the relevance?

[Kierland]

I’m sorry I must have missed that. Can you please repost.

[Jay in Phoenix]

I’m sorry I must have missed that. Can you please repost.

What, the same thing I said three posts up? Or are you asking a different question?

[Kierland]

Then we are back to A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
How can I see across Lake Tahoe to the buildings on the other side that are below 450 feet?

[smackaholic]

Then we are back to A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
How can I see across Lake Tahoe to the buildings on the other side that are below 450 feet?

Are you saying that according to the accepted earf being a sphere idea, that there is 450 feet worth of curve over that distance? That doesnt sound right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kierland]

That is because you are an idiot. Crack a book dumbass.