T1B

Martyred wrote: And why in a million years would the U.S. want to invade the North?

Countries without a sufficient deterrent, that exist outside the western sphere of influence have this mysterious habit of finding themselves blown up.

Dr_Phibes wrote:

Martyred wrote: And why in a million years would the U.S. want to invade the North?

Countries without a sufficient deterrent, that exist outside the western sphere of influence have this mysterious habit of finding themselves blown up.

Countries that have exploitable resources, maybe.

The only thing the North has to offer is a flood of starving peasants streaming across the DMZ, ultimately disrupting the South's economic blast-furnace.


...and trust me when I say this...one comrade-worker to another...North Korea ain't no East Germany*.







* ~sniff~ good times...~sniff~

Dr_Phibes wrote: - the diverting of resources to maintain the standing army to prevent, off-set or deter an invasion by the US.

Interesting since I've flown out of poptart's South Korea from the Osan base and we never had any plans of invading the North. Tell me more about what you know.

Stockpiling atomic weapons in South Korea and the vicinity, committing hundreds of cases of airbourne espionage each month, sending reconnaissance planes over their territorial waters to spy on coastal targets, conducting war games offshore, seizing ships, bolstering troops along the border, advocating a preemptive nuclear strike, pressuring other countries to impose sanctions - all of this is incompatible with dialogue and a peaceful resolution to the conflict and an excellent reason to maintain a military.

Dr_Phibes wrote:Stockpiling atomic weapons in South Korea and the vicinity, committing hundreds of cases of airbourne espionage each month, sending reconnaissance planes over their territorial waters to spy on coastal targets, conducting war games offshore, seizing ships, bolstering troops along the border, advocating a preemptive nuclear strike, pressuring other countries to impose sanctions - all of this is incompatible with dialogue and a peaceful resolution to the conflict and an excellent reason to maintain a military.

A wonderful chicken/egg argument.

you copied a post right above yours, Dins?

off yourself.

Dinsdale wrote:
A wonderful chicken/egg argument.

Not really, there's a duality in the threat which translates into conflict in your foreign policy.

Communism is an anathema to you, but the DPRK's existance provides a strategic pivot for you in the east. They're not really a threat unless you need them to be, so it flies back and forth. 'Oh, they have nukes, they're going to kill us and he's crazy', or 'ha-ha, stupid Korean missiles don't work'.

The perfect vacillation is just blockade, starve and have a giggle at the loony.

Which we are certainly doing, more and more with your every batshit crazy post.

Thank you for your contribution, Van. Now fuck off, there's a good boy.

you are batshit crazy, Phibes.

Maybe Marty can come in and clean up that mess.

War Wagon wrote:Maybe Marty can come in and clean up that mess.

You're asking some lonely guy that lives in an "Igloo"... to come to the rescue ???


Thanks, Kansas City

Phibes, Osan Air Base is about 20 miles south of the DMZ. We go to Osan to buy good deal items to load the bombay to go back to Japan.

I will say I've seen black U-2's and USAF pilots wearing black helmets and flight suit flying in and out of there to monitor/spy on NK.

Us storing nukes there? Nope. Our attack SSN submarines are in the region fully loaded and especially now. We have 2 carrier battle groups there right now and they carry the "sunshine" bombs also. Our SSBN subs are in the appropriate boxes they usually hang since those missiles go into space before the ICBM's re-enter the atmosphere.

NK knows it and that's one major reason they don't invade South Korea or fire off ballistic missiles at the United States as they won't have accurate re-entry data. You know those GPS satellites we have up in orbit the Chinese can't shoot down? They all have a built in 3 feet error for civilian and non-military GPS receivers. Guess which country has the GPS satellites? So if anyone gets froggy, their ICBM's will be way off on re-entry.

You hear about all of these countries having nukes right? Well good luck deploying them. Also, a "dirty bomb" is nothing. We'll just tape off the area and clean it up. The media is dumber than the Kansas City crowd here, and that's saying something. I hear so many inaccuracies when they talk about the military that it's ridiculous.

Dr_Phibes wrote: but the DPRK's existance provides a strategic pivot for you in the east.

The only strategic significance North Korea has is as a weapons proliferator. They are literally living in a bottle. They could pop the cork and kill a lot of people in Seoul, but they have absolutely no chance of winning any kind of war with the South.

More in terms of a hub for containing China, keeping Japan in line etc.

North Korea accomplishes none of those items. North Korea "contains" China? That doesn't even make bad sense.

mvscal wrote:North Korea accomplishes none of those items. North Korea "contains" China? That doesn't even make bad sense.

I think Phibes means the North Korean "threat" justifies America's presence in the region to keep tabs on China...to contain a possibly re-militarised Japan...

KC Scott wrote:He died of Fatigue

What a pussy.

I thought the cause of death was roneriness

Van wrote:

Dr_Phibes wrote:You'll see that photo in varying degrees of darkness depending on who's using it. They ration power because they've had their fuel supplies blockaded by the US and KEDO. That translates into lack of energy and it cripples every sector of the economy. Using fuel and food as weapons against a civilian population is the height of perversity and cowardice, it speaks more to the strength of the nation and the system, any capitalist country would implode under the same conditions.

You may truly be insane.

He thinks North Korea is paradise on earth. Ya think he may be insane?

IF the US were to invade DPRK, it would be to verify their nuclear weapons program is actually ol' Doc Brown's box full of pinball machine parts.

Hopefully.

Otherwise, they actually do have the "look out, we're crazy enough to lob the first missile" card.

Carson wrote:Otherwise, they actually do have the "look out, we're crazy enough to lob the first missile" card.

They don't even need nukes. Something like 40% of South Korea's population and most of their manufacturing and finance is in range of conventional artillery. They could pound the piss fuck out of Seoul with about 500,000 rounds per hour. It would be a bloodbath.

mvscal wrote:They could pound the piss fuck out of Seoul with about 500,000 rounds per hour. It would be a bloodbath.

I suppose they could, and it would be a bloodbath, and they could drop 500,000 rounds in an hour...

but how far into that hour do you think the'd make it before the artillery sites became familiar with Mr. Tomahawk?

I'll bet one of those dudes at the Pentagon might have thought of this.

mvscal wrote:

Carson wrote:Otherwise, they actually do have the "look out, we're crazy enough to lob the first missile" card.

They don't even need nukes. Something like 40% of South Korea's population and most of their manufacturing and finance is in range of conventional artillery. They could pound the piss fuck out of Seoul with about 500,000 rounds per hour. It would be a bloodbath.

Don't be ridiculous.

As soon as "the fog of war" descends, 95% of the Korean People's Army will throw down their rifles and dive for the first Snickers wrapper that floats across the DMZ.

War is over.

Dinsdale wrote:

mvscal wrote: but how far into that hour do you think the'd make it before the artillery sites became familiar with Mr. Tomahawk?

I'll bet one of those dudes at the Pentagon might have thought of this.

They've got 13,000 artillery pieces and eighty thousand men dug into rock on the border and had over 50 years to fortify it. You couldn't blast them out if you tried, it's stalemate.

Dr_Phibes wrote: They've got 13,000 artillery pieces and eighty thousand men dug into rock on the border and had over 50 years to fortify it. You couldn't blast them out if you tried, it's stalemate.

Rubbish. You don't have to "blast them out".

The Korean People's Army has maybe 3 days food and fuel to fight a modern war with even limited mobility. Maybe.

After that, the North Koreans might as well be the "Battle Of Tours Recreation Society".

Dr_Phibes wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:

mvscal wrote: but how far into that hour do you think the'd make it before the artillery sites became familiar with Mr. Tomahawk?

I'll bet one of those dudes at the Pentagon might have thought of this.

They've got 13,000 artillery pieces and eighty thousand men dug into rock on the border and had over 50 years to fortify it. You couldn't blast them out if you tried, it's stalemate.

Ever heard of Inchon?

Yeah, because it's not like a Tomahawk is accurate to less than 3 feet or anything.


You are truly delusional, Phibber.

If the politicians in Washington DC could ever formalise relations with North Korea, America wouldn't have to be there MOPPING up a 60 year old armistice. I feel the entire peninsula is SCREWed.

But there's quite a LAUNDRY list of things to do before both sides come to the negotiating table.

Dinsdale wrote:but how far into that hour do you think the'd make it before the artillery sites became familiar with Mr. Tomahawk?

Several hours at the least. Their firing positions are well fortified.

mvscal wrote:Their firing positions burial pits are well fortified.

ftfy

BSmack wrote:Ever heard of Inchon?

What does that have to do with the Norks' ability to pound Seoul flat in a couple hours without even crossing the DMZ?

mvscal wrote:...the Norks' ability to pound Seoul flat in a couple hours...

If 9 out of 10 NK artillery rounds weren't duds, I'd be shocked.

Their main supply columns to the front would still be peasants carrying ammo crates on foot. You have no idea how backward that country is.

Or is it more important to you to prop this paper tiger up so that one day you can go "Boom"?

mvscal wrote:
Several hours at the least. Their firing positions are well fortified.

Add on a few months to assemble the forces to take the positions. And lots of camouflage paint for the ships, it's critical they aren't seen as they steam across the Pacific.

Martyred wrote:Their main supply columns to the front would still be peasants carrying ammo crates on foot.

Just about their entire army is forward deployed around the DMZ. Their bukers are well stocked and ready to rip. They don't even have to be very accurate. Hitting a city doesn't involve a particularly high standard of training and fortifications can compensate for deficiencies in morale and technical proficiency.

mvscal wrote:

BSmack wrote:Ever heard of Inchon?

What does that have to do with the Norks' ability to pound Seoul flat in a couple hours without even crossing the DMZ?

I was questioning his assertion that there would be no way to get the DRPK forces out of their fortified positions.

Well, given the laundry list of equipment required to take the place in any OPLAN scenario, it won't be happening any time soon. There was a lot of big talk in the axis of evil/ shock and awe days when you were all rosy cheeked and flush faced with excitement.

You'll be scrubbing sand out of carburetters from whatever equipment you've got left for at least a decade, so no more Laurel and Hardy, 'Beau Geste' routines. And they're not going anywhere either, that's the strongest government in the world.

Dr_Phibes wrote:Well, given the laundry list of equipment required to take the place in any OPLAN scenario, it won't be happening any time soon. There was a lot of big talk in the axis of evil/ shock and awe days when you were all rosy cheeked and flush faced with excitement.

You'll be scrubbing sand out of carburetters from whatever equipment you've got left for at least a decade, so no more Laurel and Hardy, 'Beau Geste' routines. And they're not going anywhere either, that's the strongest government in the world.

the only "carburetters" in the US inventory over the last 30 years or so were on a handful of infantry KLR650s and all of those are diesel as well now (damn, I want one).