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frodo_biguns
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This might be of interest to our liberal colleagues here!

Post by frodo_biguns »

:lol:
What is an Executive Order?
An Executive Order allows the President to write laws. I bet you thought only Congress could do that.
From THE EXECUTIVE ORDER is a Presidential Power not designated by the Constitution By Harry V. Martin with research assistance from David Caul. From the article:

"Article I, Section 1 of the United States Constitution is concise in its language, "All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives." When the Constitution was proposed, those opposed to a strong central government, the anti-Federalists, argued that there was no Bill of Rights to protect the people and that a centralized government would become too powerful, usurping the rights of the individual States."
"...Today, the executive branch of the government is immensely powerful, much more powerful than the founding fathers had envisioned or wanted. Congressional legislative powers have been usurped. There is no greater example of that usurpation than in the form of the Presidential Executive Order. The process totally by-passes Congressional legislative authority and places in the hands of the President almost unilateral power. The Executive Order governs everything from the Flag Code of the United States to the ability to single-handedly declare Martial Law. Presidents have used the Executive Order in times of emergencies to override the Constitution of the United States and the Congress. "

"THE NEW DANGERS
A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed. Here are just a few Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.
Without Congressional approval, the President now has the power to transfer whole populations to any part of the country, the power to suspend the Press and to force a national registration of all persons. The President, in essence, has dictatorial powers never provided to him under the Constitution. The President has the power to suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in a real or perceived emergency. Unlike Lincoln and Roosevelt, these powers are not derived from a wartime need, but from any crisis, domestic or foreign, hostile or economic. Roosevelt created extraordinary measures during the Great Depression, but any President faced with a similar, or lesser, economic crisis now has extraordinary powers to assume dictatorial status. "
From the Executive Orders webpage:

"A series of Executive Orders, internal governmental departmental laws, unpassed by Congress, the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988 and the Violent Crime Control Act of 1991, has whittled down Constitutional law substantially. These new Executive Orders and Congressional Acts allow for the construction of concentration camps, suspension of rights and the ability of the President to declare Martial Law in the event of a drug crisis. Congress will have no power to prevent the Martial Law declaration and can only review the process six months after Martial Law has been declared. The most critical Executive Order was issued on August 1, 1971. Nixon signed both a proclamation and Executive Order 11615. Proclamation No. 4074 states, "I hereby declare a national emergency", thus establishing an economic crisis. That national emergency order has not
TWA 800 Missile Topic:
President Clinton's Executive Order 13039



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Without fanfare on March 11, 1997 President Clinton signed into law Executive Order 13039. That week in history missile theorists went public , the FBI confiscated an independent investigator's copy of an FAA radar tape AND was seeking another investigator for questioning.

Executive Order 13039 specifically provides for "Exclusion of the Naval Special Warfare Development Group From the Federal Labor-Management Relations Program". This program provides a mechanism for workers to report wrongdoing without fear of reprisal.

Naval Special Warfare was part of the TWA 800 recovery team. Some have wondered if this Executive Order was issued to keep some recovery activity a "National Secret".

Others believe there was a "classified operation" going on at the time of the TWA 800 crash. See The Unidentified Ships Near the TWA 800 Explosion and Something to do with a classified operation.

Is the timing of this Executive Order only a coincidence? Maybe, but why THEM and why THEN?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the following you can read:
In the News That Week
What is an Executive Order?
A Past Executive Order
A Recent Controversial Executive Order 13083 "Federalism."
Executive Order 13039 "Naval Special Warfare Exclusion"
Who does Executive Order 13039 cover?
What does Executive Order 13039 have to do with TWA 800?
Conclusion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the News That Week
Richard Russell's copy of the FAA radar tape was seized by FBI agents
Images from the radar tape were published in a Paris magazine
Pierre Salinger's Missile Press Conference in Paris
The FBI is seeking James Sanders for questioning, just a few weeks before the release of his book "The Downing of TWA flight 800"
The NTSB is still admitting missile theory is possible
From CNN on March 11, 1997 NTSB: "No physical evidence" missile brought down TWA 800 FBI seizes tape purportedly showing object speeding toward jet. From the article:
"The statements come a day after the FBI seized a videotape that purportedly shows an object speeding toward the jet seconds before it exploded."
..."The FBI has launched a criminal investigation into two people who claim they have government materials and crime scene evidence showing that a missile was responsible for the explosion, a top law enforcement source told CNN."

"In Florida, retired United Airlines pilot Richard Russell says FBI agents came to his Daytona Beach home Monday and seized a videotape. Russell claims the video is a copy of a Federal Aviation Administration radar tape showing a missile speeding toward the Boeing 747 aircraft minutes before the plane exploded. "

"...The tape, according to the source, shows a radar blip clearly marked "TWA 800," but FAA tapes only identify planes by their transponder codes, not commercial carrier names." [This is not true. I wonder who told CNN this and why.]

"In addition to Russell, the source says, the FBI hopes to question James Sanders, an author and retired police officer from California who claims to have acquired a piece of the doomed plane's seating material. The FBI is investigating this because people are claiming to have government property," the source said, "and if they do have this property it is a crime, obstruction of justice."

"Hall testified that the FBI collected samples of the residue last fall but had not tested it because it believed the residue to be an adhesive material. He said the FBI is conducting tests of the residue now."

"The NTSB knows that an explosion in the center fuel tank caused the plane to crash, but investigators do not know what caused the explosion. Loeb said one theory being studied is the possibility that a missile fragment hit the plane, causing fumes in the plane's center fuel tank to explode."

From CNN on March 13, 1997 Salinger 'totally sure' TWA 800 missile theory is true From the article:

"...At the news conference, Salinger and Mike Sommer, an investigative reporter and former Salinger colleague at ABC News, showed radar images they said were taken from an air traffic control video from John F. Kennedy International Airport, where the flight took off. "

"...At the news conference, Salinger and Sommer claimed the 'missile was fired during a "super-secret" U.S. Navy exercise off Long Island and was meant to target a Tomahawk missile, but hit Flight 800 instead when it "lost its lock on its original target."

"...Investigators say three possible crash theories remain -- a bomb, a missile or mechanical failure -- but they insist the investigation has ruled out an errant missile strike by the U.S. military.

"...The FBI this week launched a criminal investigation, hoping to stop missile theorists. On Tuesday, agents seized a videotape that former pilot Richard Russell claimed was FAA tape showing radar images of a missile near the doomed plane. "

"...The FBI also has been trying to question a former California police officer [James Sanders] who said he obtained and did tests on an actual piece of the wreckage. "
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

COme on bash Bush one executive orders ome more! :lol: :lol:
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Post by Derron »

Notice the large amount of liberal defenders and honks jumping in here...

When you point out that Clinton did the EO thing, that's different dude... he was a Democrat who was realllyyy good at getting his dick sucked in the White House.

Waiting for BSmack to enter in 3, 2, 1......
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Post by Mister Bushice »

I have no problem with executive orders. I do have a problem with executive orders given by a man who could lose a spelling bee to a near sighted poodle.

That, and the fact he apparently thinks the constitution is a decent substitute for charmin.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
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Post by Diogenes »

Mister Bushice wrote:I have no problem with executive orders. I do have a problem with executive orders given by a man who could lose a spelling bee to a near sighted poodle.

That, and the fact he apparently thinks the constitution is a decent substitute for charmin.
Leave Abe Lincoln out of this.
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Post by BSmack »

Derron wrote:Notice the large amount of liberal defenders and honks jumping in here...

When you point out that Clinton did the EO thing, that's different dude... he was a Democrat who was realllyyy good at getting his dick sucked in the White House.

Waiting for BSmack to enter in 3, 2, 1......
If you're holding your breath waiting for me to call Bill Clinton a defender of personal liberty, you better get an airpack.

But that doesn't justify what Bush has done.
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

Oh, I get it...

...the "Clinton did it too!" defence.


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Post by BSmack »

How shocking that Drudge was once again shown to be completely full of shit.
The top of the Drudge Report claims “CLINTON EXECUTIVE ORDER: SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS WITHOUT COURT ORDER…” It’s not true. Here’s the breakdown –

What Drudge says:

Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”

What Clinton actually signed:

Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.

That section requires the Attorney General to certify is the search will not involve “the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person.” That means U.S. citizens or anyone inside of the United States.

The entire controversy about Bush’s program is that, for the first time ever, allows warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens and other people inside of the United States. Clinton’s 1995 executive order did not authorize that.

Drudge pulls the same trick with Carter.

What Drudge says:

Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”

What Carter’s executive order actually says:

1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section.

What the Attorney General has to certify under that section is that the surveillance will not contain “the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party.” So again, no U.S. persons are involved.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/drudge-fact-check/
Figures Fraudo and Derron would be all over this shit.
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Post by OCmike »

Problem is, had Bush not issued this order and it was proven that citizens inside the US plotted and executed an attack from within using support from overseas, you tards would have been all over it claiming that Bush's intelligence services failed yet again.

This President is leaving office in a few years. Stop acting like he's a dictator-until-death who is running some African police state.

If you don't like the way things are going, just wait a few years and someone else will be running shit. You'll have all new stuff to complain about then. Whoopee!
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Post by Bizzarofelice »

Derron wrote:Notice the large amount of liberal defenders and honks jumping in here...
No conservative read all that.
No liberal read all that.
No democrat read all that.
No republican read all that.
why is my neighborhood on fire
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Mister Bushice
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Post by Mister Bushice »

OCmike wrote:Problem is, had Bush not issued this order and it was proven that citizens inside the US plotted and executed an attack from within using support from overseas, you tards would have been all over it claiming that Bush's intelligence services failed yet again.
Again. Given the very limited cell structure of terrorists networks, why are "known terrorists" allowed to run around free? That type of monitoring didn't work so well with Atta.

I seriosuly think it's more of a power trip of Bushs to have as much control as possible. There are ways to limit and control how wiretaps are issued, and there is NO reason why a court or independent agency should not be involved as a form of checks and balances. That is too much power in the hands of too few people who can too easily abuse it.
This President is leaving office in a few years. Stop acting like he's a dictator-until-death who is running some African police state.

If you don't like the way things are going, just wait a few years and someone else will be running shit. You'll have all new stuff to complain about then. Whoopee!
I know. I can't wait. :)
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Post by Gunslinger »

Mister Bushice wrote:
This President is leaving office in a few years. Stop acting like he's a dictator-until-death who is running some African police state.

If you don't like the way things are going, just wait a few years and someone else will be running shit. You'll have all new stuff to complain about then. Whoopee!
I know. I can't wait. :)
I hope its Hillary Clinton. That way we can all sit around this board and wait for Patsy Stone posts regarding her clothing or how cute she thinks she is. Or how Chelsey is HDD.
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Post by OCmike »

Mister Bushice wrote:
OCmike wrote:Problem is, had Bush not issued this order and it was proven that citizens inside the US plotted and executed an attack from within using support from overseas, you tards would have been all over it claiming that Bush's intelligence services failed yet again.
Again. Given the very limited cell structure of terrorists networks, why are "known terrorists" allowed to run around free? That type of monitoring didn't work so well with Atta.
These aren't "known terrorists", but people with "ties to Al-Quaida. You can't throw someone in jail just for having Osama's phone #, but it should sure as hell get that call monitored.

Also, as with any sting, you don't bust the underlings when you first become aware of it. You generally let it run its course and kill it before it happens to make sure you know everything and are going to nab everyone. Doesn't do much good if you only get the lackeys and leave the head of the snake in place.
Bushice wrote:I seriosuly think it's more of a power trip of Bushs to have as much control as possible. There are ways to limit and control how wiretaps are issued, and there is NO reason why a court or independent agency should not be involved as a form of checks and balances. That is too much power in the hands of too few people who can too easily abuse it.
1. Stop picturing Bush as Darth Vader, shaking a balled up fist and bellowing, "You don't...know...the POWER..."

2. Abuse it to do what? Is Bush going to try to keep our extra minutes from rolling over to the next month or something?
I know. I can't wait. :)
Watch what you wish for. You do know that Hillary is next, and probably for 8 years, right? Hello socialist shithole some?
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Mister Bushice
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Post by Mister Bushice »

OCmike wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:
OCmike wrote:Problem is, had Bush not issued this order and it was proven that citizens inside the US plotted and executed an attack from within using support from overseas, you tards would have been all over it claiming that Bush's intelligence services failed yet again.
Again. Given the very limited cell structure of terrorists networks, why are "known terrorists" allowed to run around free? That type of monitoring didn't work so well with Atta.
These aren't "known terrorists",
Bush used that term himself.
but people with "ties to Al-Quaida. You can't throw someone in jail just for having Osama's phone #, but it should sure as hell get that call monitored.
Again, it can be done in an effective way without giving carte blanche fro them to monitor anyone they damn well please for no reason whatsoever.
Also, as with any sting, you don't bust the underlings when you first become aware of it. You generally let it run its course and kill it before it happens to make sure you know everything and are going to nab everyone. Doesn't do much good if you only get the lackeys and leave the head of the snake in place.
Terrorist cells don't work that way. You might get one or two and that's it. The other cells have no ties, there is no outright leader. Sleeper cells never act, they only react. They wait for a cue, perhaps a released statement, or an incident. Nearly impossible to really trace unless you have the full cooperation of the muslim community.
Bushice wrote:I seriosuly think it's more of a power trip of Bushs to have as much control as possible. There are ways to limit and control how wiretaps are issued, and there is NO reason why a court or independent agency should not be involved as a form of checks and balances. That is too much power in the hands of too few people who can too easily abuse it.
1. Stop picturing Bush as Darth Vader, shaking a balled up fist and bellowing, "You don't...know...the POWER..."
Sorry, Can't do that. He's been on a power trip since election #2, when he said things like "I have election credits and I intend to use them", not to mention him NEVER backing down on anything EVER, even when he has fucked up.
2. Abuse it to do what? Is Bush going to try to keep our extra minutes from rolling over to the next month or something?
Think "Big Brother", not "Cingular Wireless".
I know. I can't wait. :)
Watch what you wish for. You do know that Hillary is next, and probably for 8 years, right? Hello socialist shithole some?
She won't win as P. Maybe as a VP. America is not ready for a female president yet.
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Post by Felix »

The mechanism to monitor potential adversaries already existed....

Instead, Bush opted to circumvent the Constitution......

Why do you suppose that is?

and exactly how many "subversives" did they bring to justice with this little ploy?
get out, get out while there's still time
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Exactly. If they could already do it, why the need to have no authorization to do it?

It's a power thing. Nixon was like that, too.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
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Post by Mikey »

Basically, Bush is staking the claim that "executive authority" gives him the power to do absofuckinlutely anything he wants to do as long as we are "at war".

Of course, since wer're indefinitely "at war" with the terrorists, that pretty much gives him permanent Kingship.

October 2008 press release:

"Since we are at war with terrorists, the President has determined that the upcoming election would be a threat to our national security. It will be postponed indefinitely, until we win this war."
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Post by Felix »

^^^^^ Why do you hate press releases....
get out, get out while there's still time
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Post by mothster »

rack executive privelage------

dick nixon

and its not necessarily a bad thang

dick did more to end the cold war than most know
mvscals blow monkey spunk
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Post by Mikey »

mvscal wrote:
Mikey wrote:Basically, Bush is staking the claim that "executive authority" gives him the power to do absofuckinlutely anything he wants to do as long as we are "at war".
Basically, you're full of shit. Basically.
Basically, you're a pole smoking moron with your head up Dick Cheney's ass. Basically.
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Post by Bizzarofelice »

mvscal wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:I seriosuly think it's more of a power trip of Bushs to have as much control as possible.
Then you are a complete dumbfuck.
Exactly. Dubya doesn't wipe his ass without Cheney's approval. What makes you people think Bush could even come up with this idea in the first place?
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Post by Mister Bushice »

But the Patroit Act provisions open that door even wider, and unnecessarily so since as Felix already pointed out, the mechanism already existed.

The change is the way it is implemeted via the patroit act.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
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War Wagon wrote:being as how I've got "stupid" draped all over, I'm not really sure.
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Post by War Wagon »

Felix wrote:The mechanism to monitor potential adversaries already existed....

Instead, Bush opted to circumvent the Constitution......

Why do you suppose that is?
To cause Bushice and yourself vaginal cramps and severe uterine discomfort would be my best guesstimation, but perhaps you have another expalnation?

This I have to see.
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Post by frodo_biguns »

BSmack wrote:How shocking that Drudge was once again shown to be completely full of shit.
The top of the Drudge Report claims “CLINTON EXECUTIVE ORDER: SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS WITHOUT COURT ORDER…” It’s not true. Here’s the breakdown –

What Drudge says:

Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”

What Clinton actually signed:

Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.

That section requires the Attorney General to certify is the search will not involve “the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person.” That means U.S. citizens or anyone inside of the United States.

The entire controversy about Bush’s program is that, for the first time ever, allows warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens and other people inside of the United States. Clinton’s 1995 executive order did not authorize that.

Drudge pulls the same trick with Carter.

What Drudge says:

Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”

What Carter’s executive order actually says:

1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section.

What the Attorney General has to certify under that section is that the surveillance will not contain “the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party.” So again, no U.S. persons are involved.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/drudge-fact-check/
Figures Fraudo and Derron would be all over this shit.
Hey dipshit! These are government facts, check it out for yourself! :lol: :lol:
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Post by Gunslinger »

mvscal wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:But the Patroit Act provisions open that door even wider, and unnecessarily so since as Felix already pointed out, the mechanism already existed.

The change is the way it is implemeted via the patroit act.
Wrong.

This entire fake scandal was timed to the debate about the reauthorization of the Patriot Act and simple minded dumbfucks like you took the bait hook, line and sinker.
FAKE! :lol: :lol:

It's like the guy who robs a bank and his competitor for office sits on it till he is up for election. Clearly it's used against him, but the other side states its for political gains. Well NO SHIT, you fucking moron!

You break the law, its societies responsibility to tell you to lay off the black cock. All that sucking is making you light headed and incoherrant.
I fucking suck.
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