Week 11: Top 16

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:40 pm

1-LSU, again they’d be my pick on a neutral field
2-Oregon, but again just barely over the Ducks
3-Oklahoma
4-Kansas, if they beat Mizzou and OU they’ll be deserving of a title shot
5-Missouri
6-Georgia
7-West Virginia
8-Arizona St
9-Clemson
10-Ohio St
11-USC
12-Texas
13-Virginia Tech
14-Virginia
15-Florida
16-Hawaii, only the 0 losses keeps them here as they are a fraud team

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:15 pm

And let the argument begin....

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:21 pm

Shine wrote:4-Kansas, if they beat Mizzou and OU they’ll be deserving of a title shot

No, they won't.

And I'll be freaking pissed off if they do, and I might have to reevaluate the NCAA getting any of my money through advertising revenue.

Kansas is a crap team attempting to be on the mend. The "mending process" is going well for them, and for this I salute them.

But if ANYONE outside of Kansas thinks they should be in the title game for cheduling as weak as they possibly could, they need their head examined.

Yeah, that's what CFB needs -- create further incentive to go all SEC up in the bitch, and schedule as shitty as possible so you can back-door into the championship game.

I have a hard time believing anyone who truly loves the sport would endorse a shit-scheduling-incentive-program. Like we don't see enough of that already. The idea is to encourage teams to schedule better OOC games, not reward them for finding the weakest of the weak.

16-Hawaii, only the 0 losses keeps them here as they are a fraud team

Wait, see if I've got this right... you condone giving Kansas a title shot if they win out, because they'll have beaten two decent teams and a whole bunch of crap...

But absolutely rolling through a crap-schedule, and one of the better teams they've played just managed to hold them to 37 points, which was by far their worst offensive outing of the year, somehow makes Hawaii a "fraud"?

You're fucking trolling, right?

Please tell me you are?

Because I'd much prefer to believe that you're trolling than the only other possible explaination -- that you're obviosly fucking retarded.

Have you actually seen Hawaii play?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:24 pm

1 Oregon
2 LSU
(by the slimmest of margins)
3 Oklahoma
4 Kansas
5 WVU
6 Missouri
7 Ohio St
8 Georgia
9 Arizona St
10 Virginia Tech
11 USC
12 Texas
13 Clemson
14 Virginia
15 Hawaii

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:44 pm

Dinsdale wrote: Wait, see if I've got this right... you condone giving Kansas a title shot if they win out, because they'll have beaten two decent teams and a whole bunch of crap...

I'd say that MU and OU rank well to the plus side of "decent", and if somehow KU manages to beat both of them, they will have earned the right to play in the title game. They won't have been "given" shit.

But this debate is rather acedemic as the above scenario just isn't going to happen.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:52 pm

War Wagon wrote: I'd say that MU and OU rank well to the plus side of "decent", and if somehow KU manages to beat both of them, they will have earned the right to play in the title game. They won't have been "given" shit.

Quit copying our schtick.

Sin,
SEC Fan

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:58 pm

If Kansas does beat Missouri and Oklahoma back-to-back...it doesn't make up for their first 11 games on their schedule but those would be two wins that legitimize them. If Oregon and LSU win out though, I have a feeling Kansas won't jump them regardless simply because they all play their last game on the same day...no contending team will be idle on that last Saturday of the season.

Even though the Pac-10 doesn't have a title game, Oregon plays their last game the same day as the conference championship games on December 1. Oregon will not be idle on the same day that LSU will be playing Tennessee or Georgia in the SEC title game and Oklahoma will be playing Kansas or Missouri and be at risk of being jumped in the human polls. I don't think we'll see a free leapover for the winner of the Big XII game because of Oregon playing that day and they would still be playing for the Pac-10 title because Arizona State could still have a shot at the conference title that day against Arizona, if they beat USC on Thanksgiving though.

Let's say if Oregon and LSU both win on December 1 and win their respective conference titles in the process...would the pollsters jump the Big XII champ over either of them just because they would've won the toughest game of the day (a game between two top 5 teams)? Would the computer formulas put Kansas #1 if they win out and finish with two wins over top 5 teams? I'm not a BCS-ologist so I don't know if those wins alone would put them over Oregon and/or LSU. Kansas' resume would drastically improve if they can win out and post wins over two top 5 teams but I don't know if it guarantees them a spot in the title game.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:09 pm

Jsc810 wrote:So applied to this year, if Kansas, Oregon and LSU all win out, then Kansas and LSU should play for the national championship. Yeah, a conference championship game is that important.

I mentioned above, Oregon plays their last game on the same day as the SEC and Big XII title games. They will be playing for the Pac-10 title that game but not in an actual title game. Arizona State is still alive for the Pac-10 title if they can beat USC in two weeks. The Pac-10 title could be left undecided until December 1...on conference championship Saturday.

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:10 pm

I disagree.

LSU vs Oregon are the two best teams I have seen play. Dixon vs LSU's fast defense....great game.

Kansas vs LSU? Oregon vs Kansas?

No freaking way.....

I am more sold on the Pac 10 than the Big 12.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:19 pm

Maybe every contender should add extra games to its schedule to get cheesey BCS points then.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm

Again, where are you people getting these strange ideas about which conferences are better?

The BE is ranked higher than the B12. Not sure where your strnge delusions come from.

And frankly, bottom line...

The BCS system is less than perfect... Sin, Marcus Allen.

Who was the first team to truly get fucked out of a title shot in the BCS era? And got fucked out of a BCS Bowl since then?

Not only can the pollsters do the right thing this year, they have the opposrtunity to right some past wrongs while they're at it.

Sorry -- Kansas has played Central Freaking Michigan, they played THE WORST team in D1A, and even mixed in a 1AA for good measure. And I hate to break it to you, but the precedent has already been set that if there's a debate between two teams vying for a bowl, the team with a 1AA on the schedule gets left out.

Sorry, but if teams can cupcake it up to that extent, they have no reasonable expectation of championship consideration, nor do they have any claim to it. Thank goodness. Can you imagine what schedules of wannabe contenders would look like if anyone makes the stupid decision to wander down this slippery slope? You'd get something much like what tOSU did this year... which every non-tOSU fan bitched and whined about for the last several weeks... yet despite all of the complaints about OSU's schedule, you're now looking to encourage this dreadful practice for everyone else in the future.

Pull your heads out of your asses.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:23 pm

Conference championship games mean shit!

The conferences that have them, have them for one reason...$$$$$$$$$$.

A couple conferences having Champ. Games don't make them better conferences...see ACC.

Your conferences wanted these cash grabs, you got them. If it costs a team a chance at the MNC, tough shit. The Pac10 does it right. Round Robin is the only true way to do it.

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:37 pm

Sags has Kansas with the 97th rated SOS.

Huh?

Anyone who pimps KU for the title game should be taken out behind the board and well, you know....

KU doesn't even play Texas? I have a strong feeling that OU will take care of business making this dicussion moot. So Kansas is the new OSU?

Borrowed time fellas....borrowed time.

Hell, I wouldn't even mind a OU-Oregon match-up should LSU lose to UGA.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:42 pm

Jsc810 wrote:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... index.html <----- Those guys may be flawed as well, but they do support your argument, Dins.

Except that's purely a subjective, observational ranking. Not that I'm opposed to hearing from the subjective rankings, either. I think there's a balance between subjectivity and hard statistical data that can be struck, certainly.

But as far as ranking the individual conferences, until all is said and done, I generally defer to the Sagarins, since it's strictly number-crunching, and not subjective at all, although it takes a few weeks into the season before the database is large enough for it to mean much.

Either way -- I've been resisting the homerism when discussing such matters, and I still am to a point. But frankly, Oregon and LSU are easily the best, most impressive teams at this point, and nothing any of the teams chasing them can do should usurp that, assuming both win out.

If anyone thinks either LSU or Oregon wouldn't embarrass either Kansas or Mizzou, they need their eyes checked. Neither of those teams have a better defense than LSU or Oregon, and if anyone tries to compare either KU or MIzzou's offense to Oregon's...

actually, I'd enjoy that -- it would be the best laugh of the day.

So I'm not sure how a team with an inferior defense and a vastly inferior offense is supposed to be ranked ahead of the clearly better team.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:42 pm

Jsc810 wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm

Again, where are you people getting these strange ideas about which conferences are better?

The BE is ranked higher than the B12. Not sure where your strnge delusions come from.
That his rankings have the Big East as the #2 conference is nothing more than simple proof that he needs to adjust his rankings to better reflect reality. His ranking is flawed.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... index.html <----- Those guys may be flawed as well, but they do support your argument, Dins.

Of course, in every ranking, the SEC is ranked first. Interesting how that works out that way.

exactly,

sagarins=shit(his basketbal lrankings are always a beauty, and many times laughed at)

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:44 pm

T REX wrote: Anyone who pimps KU for the title game should be taken out behind the board and well, you know....

Does this tell Kansas honk all they need to know about their homerism?

Congrats, Kansas supporters -- you've just accomplished the impossible...

you made Trix sound intelligent.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:45 pm

supporting KU???

KU will have 1 loss, play in holliday bowl.

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:46 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
T REX wrote: Anyone who pimps KU for the title game should be taken out behind the board and well, you know....

Does this tell Kansas honk all they need to know about their homerism?

Congrats, Kansas supporters -- you've just accomplished the impossible...

you made Trix sound intelligent.

Uhhhh....backhanded but thanks anyway......

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:48 pm

Jsc810 wrote:So applied to this year, if Kansas, Oregon and LSU all win out, then Kansas and LSU should play for the national championship. Yeah, a conference championship game is that important.

JSC, you're a fucking maroon. Denouncing Oregon's credibility on the basis of not playing in a Cash Grab game is completely absurd. Did you realize Oregon will have played EVERY team in its conference? Do you realize that even with the advent of the Cash Grab game, that not every SEC team will play each other? Now ask yourself which "system" is more legitimate? Oregon plays in the one conference that NOBODY has any business cracking on. Because like WS pointed out, they do it right.

The farce you call a "Championship Game" isn't needed if everybody plays everybody.

Don't you understand this very basic concept, counselor?

Even with the all-deciding, all-important SEC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, just take a look at the results still. It doesn't necessarily determine shit. Arkansas was last year's runner-up. Yet ask any SEC fan if Arkansas was the 2nd best team in the conference and see what they tell you.

Dear lord, it's just pathetic how SEC Consumer devours anything the SEC feeds them. Just eats it right up. Try thinking for yourselves, you freaking dweebs.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:54 pm

[quote="Shine"]1-LSU, again they’d be my pick on a neutral field
/quote]

they'd be my pick on a neutral field, but playing in the Sugar Bowl isn't a neutral field.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:55 pm

i dont have a problem with any of the top 3 playing for a title if they win out.

Of the 3, OU's loss at CU looks badly.

Actually im enjoying a good season, with a shot at a New Years bowl. Can't ask for anything more than your team playing on New Years day.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:57 pm

Jsc810 wrote:Mgo, can you find a single conference ranking that shows the SEC as anything except #1?

Just wondering.

Do you have the capability and attention span to debate a specific point?

Just wondering.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:59 pm

^^ Not to mention that the eventual Pac-10 champion will have played nine conference games. Which is equal to what the SEC/Big XII champ will have played, including its cash grab game.

The Pac-10 is the only conference that gets it right.

War Stoops · Post by **War Stoops** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:00 pm

Dins, FWIW, I agree that Oregon and LSU are the two best teams and should get in ahead of a zero-loss Kansas. However, you're dead wrong about Oregon and/or LSU blowing out Mizzou. The Tigers are 4th nationally in total offense (ahead of Oregon and LSU) and 57th in total defense (well ahead of Oregon). Don't get me wrong, I'd favor Oregon in a head-to-head matchup but it would not be a blow out. I've seen many Missouri frauds over the years. This year, they're the real deal. If Kansas beats them, it is absolutely a high-quality win.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:03 pm

Mgo, can you find a single conference ranking that shows the SEC as anything except #1?

Just wondering.

I see this has somehow turned into another SEC is GOD thread.

Exit.. Stage.. Right.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:05 pm

The debate was about who's more deserving, Oregon or KU, and JSC used the "conference championship" card to support KU.

But when backed into the corner with facts and reasons to dispute the idiocy of this statement, JSC went straight to the "THE SEC IS #1!" This time it's funny though, considering the SEC has nothing to do with the question - who's more deserving, Oregon or Kansas?

It's like fucking clockwork with these idiots. I could call his wife fat and ugly, and the naturual response will be "THE SEC HAS BODE! WE'RE #1!"

What a fucking tool.

This guy is seriously making me consider taking the BAR and moving to Louisiana. Looks like there's some serious money to be made in the court rooms down there.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:10 pm

War Stoops wrote:The Tigers are 4th nationally in total offense (ahead of Oregon and LSU)

Maybe Oregon should have svheduled Florida International to run up their stats?

and 57th in total defense (well ahead of Oregon).

Uhm....

Oregon has a slightly lower points-against average. I can only imagine the difference if Oregon had played Florida International and Directional Michigan.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:11 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: The farce you call a "Championship Game" isn't needed if everybody plays everybody.

Kinda' tough to play everybody in a 12 team conference. KU missed both OU and Texas this year, so if they win the North, a conference CS game is absolutely necessary. It's not a farce, except to homer Big 10 and Pac 10 fan who don't have a CS game, and for some silly reason like to feel superior due to that fact.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:13 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:It's like fucking clockwork with these idiots. I could call his wife fat and ugly, and the naturual response will be "THE SEC HAS BODE! WE'RE #1!"

The REALLY funny part, is it's just about all of them.

And they still can't figure out why they're universally laughed at across the country.

THAT'S the really funny part.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:14 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
War Stoops wrote:The Tigers are 4th nationally in total offense (ahead of Oregon and LSU)
Maybe Oregon should have svheduled Florida International to run up their stats?

Uhm...

Mizzou didn't play Florida International.

Or Houston.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:26 pm

War Wagon wrote:It's not a farce, except to homer Big 10 and Pac 10 fan who don't have a CS game, and for some silly reason like to feel superior due to that fact.

I'm not defending the Big Ten, nor do I feel they're superior. I'll bet it's easy for you to debate against points that haven't even been made, eh?

My only point was that nobody should be discrediting the Pac 10 for not playing a Cash Grab game especially when it's the most legitimate conference out there. What's more legit than round robin? I'm all ears. Go ahead. Expound, genius.

If USC or Oregon runs the table and beats every team in the Pac 10, what purpose would there be to playing in a "championship game?" Can't you idiots understand this concept? Yet you still somehow discredit the conference for not playing in some added, meaningless ratings-game that would solve nothing. If anything, it would complicate matters.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:26 pm

War Wagon wrote: Mizzou didn't play Florida International.

Or Houston.

Sorry -- I got my B12 cupcakers mixed up.

Didn't Houston win their conference last season, and is sporting a winning record this season?

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:29 pm

War Wagon wrote:Kinda' tough to play everybody in a 12 team conference. KU missed both OU and Texas this year, so if they win the North, a conference CS game is absolutely necessary. It's not a farce, except to homer Big 10 and Pac 10 fan who don't have a CS game, and for some silly reason like to feel superior due to that fact.

Jesus Christ, do you idgets read?

Go ahead and play your cash money game. We don't really give a fuck.

But you have no room to complain when a team like Oregon plays just as many conference games as you do AND plays every team in its conference.

Casually awaiting SEC is #1 reply...

DiT · Post by **DiT** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:35 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
War Wagon wrote: Mizzou didn't play Florida International.

Or Houston.

Sorry -- I got my B12 cupcakers mixed up.

Didn't Houston win their conference last season, and is sporting a winning record this season?

Houston got blown out by Tulsa last night 56-7.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:35 pm

Dinsdale wrote: Didn't Houston win their conference last season, and is sporting a winning record this season?

Houston just got waxed 56 - 7 by freaking Tulsa. The same Tulsa team that got took out behind the woodshed and spanked 62 - 21 by Oklahoma.

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:41 pm

War Stoops wrote:Dins, FWIW, I agree that Oregon and LSU are the two best teams and should get in ahead of a zero-loss Kansas. However, you're dead wrong about Oregon and/or LSU blowing out Mizzou. The Tigers are 4th nationally in total offense (ahead of Oregon and LSU) and 57th in total defense (well ahead of Oregon). Don't get me wrong, I'd favor Oregon in a head-to-head matchup but it would not be a blow out. I've seen many Missouri frauds over the years. This year, they're the real deal. If Kansas beats them, it is absolutely a high-quality win.

Gotta ask vs what competition?

52nd rated SOS?

Yeah....way to blow up those numbers vs crap teams.....you gave up 41 to the best team you played.

Again, not buying what you're trying to sell.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:43 pm

Nice diversionary tactic, WW.

The fact remains that Oregon has still beaten a top 25 team OOC.

Mizzou has only played one top 25 team, and they lost.

Kansas apparently cowers in fear of playing an OOC game against an opponent anyone has actually heard of.

Houston was a decent scheduling, since they compete and win their conference, which ain't a bad conference as far as mid-majors go. Fresno State has its ups and downs, but usually occupies one of the top 2-3 spots in their conference every year (although never getting over that hump), in a "premiere" mid-major.

Mizzou played doormats, and teams with directions in their name. Still puts then a darn sight higher than Kansas, who apparently couldn't find a compass reading they didn't want to play against, in addition the THE WORST TEAM IN D1.

If Kansas didn't even want to play in the BCS Bowl, why does anyone else want them there?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:02 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: My only point was that nobody should be discrediting the Pac 10 for not playing a Cash Grab game especially when it's the most legitimate conference out there.

I'm not discrediting the Pac 10 at all. You said that a conference CS game was a "farce". I said it's necessary in a 12 team conference.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:42 pm

How else are you supposed to determine the winner of a conference with a dozen teams and two divisions, a coin toss? The conference title game is essential in leagues like the SEC, Big XII and ACC because of their size. Those games are cash grabs because they are an extension of the BCS but how great would those games be if we had a system where winning your conference got you into a national playoff and not just an invitation to a $10 million consolation game. If the Big Ten adds a 12th team, you'll see a title game there as well. All the major conferences should be determined the same way and not have half of them with title games and the other half without.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:53 pm

Shoalzie wrote:All the major conferences should be determined the same way and not have half of them with title games and the other half without.

Yes consistency across the board is ideal, but I still defer to Mgo's comment earlier:

... a "Championship Game" isn't needed if everybody plays everybody.

Why should the Pac-10 conform when its system of determining a champion is the best out there?

campinfool · Post by **campinfool** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:45 pm

If KU wins out then let them have a shot at the NC. I think they will have earned it. They play pretty much the same schedule every year and either suck or scrap just to become bowl eligible. And there have to be a crap load of other teams that play worse schedules and still can't pull off an undefeated season. If a mid major can get into the BCS by going undefeated or ranked in the top 12, then an undefeated team from a BCS conference should be rewarded. I don't necessarily believe they are a top 2 in the country team, but they shouldn't be discounted so much. Seems like KU and even MU are being lighlty regarded nationally because they are not tradtional football powers, but none the less they are both good teams and the Big XII should be proud they have stepped up this year.

T1B

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