God or Not

[trev]

I'm taking a poll and want your honest opinion. Comments are welcome.

[War Wagon]

Of course God exists, silly girl.

Happy Easter, sweetcheeks. He IS Risen.

Don't start any more polls if you can help it.

[Screw_Michigan]

Of course he exists and he surely doesn't vote GOP.

[trev]

Of course God exists, silly girl.

Happy Easter, sweetcheeks. He IS Risen.

Don't start any more polls if you can help it.

Did you vote?

I was told Jesus IS Risen. Not God.

[mvscal]

I'm taking a poll and want your honest opinion. Comments are welcome.

Hi, trev. What are you wearing this evening? As little as possible, I would imagine. I hope you don't mind that I'm feverishly clutching my genitals as I type this.

I believe God is who you cry out to as I pull out of your fish pocket and blast a load across your belly, your tits, your face, hair and the wall.

Call me. We should get fruitful and multiply.

[smackaholic]

My take is no.

I wish there was a God, but, imo, if there was, he wouldn't be such a fukkin' dick.

And save me the "free will" bit about why everything is so fukked. If he is all that, he could make this place a little better.

Bottom line is, if there actually is some old bearded white dude up in the clouds allowing wars, tsunamis and an ISP for Ltsturd, he's a fukking dick and I just as soon go to hell as hang out in a cloud with him watching as he continues to fukk everybody over.

That being said, I still respect folks that do believe and do good things in His name.

[Smackie Chan]

Well said, counselor.

[Mikey]

Funny, I neve pictured God as a wild haired guy wearing womens' shoes.

[Onions]

It depends on what you mean by "God."






I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.

I am not an atheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.

I would categorize that as Intelligent Design Light (or Lite).

You believe there is a Creator. He threw his pebble in the pond or some similar shit, then gave no more thought to the consequences of his toss and let the ripples carry on as they would. He isn't a personal God and doesn't give a rat's ass about the mess he created. Or am I missing something?

If that is the case, and you buy into the horse-shit that only those who believe in God truly have a reason to adhere to any sense of morals, what drives yours?

common fucking decency? common fucking sense? the golden fucking rule?

[Screw_Michigan]

common fucking decency? common fucking sense? the golden fucking rule?

Onions. The adults are talking. Go back to the kids table and eat some of that cranberry jello salad your aunt brought. Look it has whipped topping and marshmallows. You love that stuff.

And how, exactly, is he wrong?

[smackaholic]

common fucking decency? common fucking sense? the golden fucking rule?

Onions. The adults are talking. Go back to the kids table and eat some of that cranberry jello salad your aunt brought. Look it has whipped topping and marshmallows. You love that stuff.

And how, exactly, is he wrong?

because what he said appears to have flown clear over his head. looks like it's flown over another's as well. now, back to the kiddie table with you too. and you better eat those fukking brussels sprouts. don't try giving them to the dog again.

[mvscal]

common fucking decency? common fucking sense? the golden fucking rule?

What you consider to be "common fucking decency" varies greatly from culture to culture depending on their value system.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I wish there was a God, but, imo, if there was, he wouldn't be such a fukkin' dick.

This.

Sending those who do not worship you into an eternal pit of fire... that's some fucked up shit right there. God has some SERIOUS issues.

[Goober McTuber]

I wish there was a God, but, imo, if there was, he wouldn't be such a fukkin' dick.

This.

Sending those who do not worship you into an eternal pit of fire... that's some fucked up shit right there. God has some SERIOUS issues.

Hey, when you’re able to create a universe, you’ll get to make the rules.

[Smackie Chan]

If we consider if/how matter came into existence, there are a couple possibilities. Either it has always existed and no prime mover, force, or other entity was required to create it, or something such as God and/or the big bang is responsible for the universe as it is known today. In the first case, no God, creator, or force was needed; the universe simply has always been around. This somewhat obviates the need to answer the question of how something came from nothing, because there never was a state of nothingness. If the big bang is accepted as the starting point of the universe, more questions are raised. Who or what created the infinitely dense mass that exploded and became everything that now exists? Or did the infinitely dense mass always exist prior to the big bang, again obviating the need for a creator? What triggered the big bang? If the creator is/was a tangible entity, who created it/Him?

If we accept that a creator was needed, we still are left with having to answer how something (the creator) arose from nothing. The theological answer is that God has always existed, but if there was no universe in which for Him to exist, where did He “live”? From a scientific standpoint, if it is possible for ANYTHING, including “God,” to have always existed, then the universe COULD also have always been around. This is essentially the basis of pantheism – the belief that the universe, nature, and God are all one and the same. I believe this is what Jsc was referring to, although the “God” part is not considered an entity with the capacity to think or devise a master plan. It is more of simply a force, the nature of which is unknown and, in all likelihood, unknowable. Pantheism is not a religious belief, but a set of philosophical beliefs that does not require worship or devotion on the part of its believers. For what it’s worth, I consider myself a pantheist.

While it’s difficult for this to come across as anything other than disrespectful, I find it difficult to understand how supposedly rational people can still have religious beliefs. I can somewhat respect it if it makes one’s life easier or justifies moral behavior, or even if it is just an excuse to socialize. But none of those motives require religion. Religious beliefs are simply mythologies intended to provide answers to the unanswerable, instill a sense of fairness to an unfair universe, and establish moral guidelines based on fear of the unknown and belief in the possibility of eternal paradise and eternal suffering. Religion is, quite simply, a man-made creation used to exert control over others. And it is very effective.

[Goober McTuber]

When I was young and they packed me off to school
and taught me how not to play the game,
I didn't mind if they groomed me for success,
or if they said that I was a fool.
So I left there in the morning
with their God tucked underneath my arm
their half-assed smiles and the book of rules.
So I asked this God a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said - I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
So to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares):
before I'm through I'd like to say my prayers
I don't believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
Well you can excomunicate me on my way to Sunday school
and have all the bishops harmonize these lines
how do you dare tell me that I'm my Father's son
when that was just an accident of Birth.
I'd rather look around me - compose a better song
`cos that's the honest measure of my worth.
In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me,
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear.
I don't believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

[War Wagon]

Religious beliefs are simply mythologies intended to provide answers to the unanswerable.

In other words, you don't really have anything figured out just yet.

But in your infinite uncertain wisdom, you'll try to ascribe what you believe are the motives and inspirations of those who have faith in a power greater than themselves, while those folks are quite certain of the truth they've been shown in their hearts.

You don't have to believe the message or act upon it even if you did believe, but rest assured you've heard it.

[Smackie Chan]

Religious beliefs are simply mythologies intended to provide answers to the unanswerable.

In other words, you don't really have anything figured out just yet.

No one has, even if they believe they have.

But in your infinite uncertain wisdom, you'll try to ascribe what you believe are the motives and inspirations of those who have faith in a power greater than themselves, while those folks are quite certain of the truth they've been shown in their hearts.

Can you elaborate on what "shown in their hearts" means? Didn't realize a pump was a sensory organ. And your definition of certain is most assuredly different than mine.

[War Wagon]

Rack the drugs 88 took in college.

And Smackie, I think you know what I meant, and if you didn't, no explanation would suffice.

[Goober McTuber]

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Rack the drugs 88 took in college.

Yeah, because scientific theory is so much wackier than some bearded dude living in the sky creating shit with a wave of his finger.

[Go Coogs']

Not sure if there really is a God or not, but I do believe it is all speculation until we have scientific proof of a supreme being. A lot of science, hypothesis', and theories have been proven over the years to further denigrate the existence of God; however, I've also seen, heard and read about events taking place that are just too crazy to explain.

For one, the couple who lost all three of their children (two girls and a boy) due to a horrible automobile accident. The mother and father were devastated. They tried and tried again to have children and no luck, then some years later, they were blessed with triplets (two girsl and a boy). That is too crazy to explain IMO. Lots of little coincedences out there like this one that makes me think there is something out there that does provides miracles. Not sure what it is, but its something out of our control.

Not sure if any of you remember the movie Signs, but I think Mel Gibson's explanation of the two types of people that make up the human race pretty much sums up what we do or do not believe in:

People break down into two groups. When they experience something lucky, group number one sees it as more than luck, more than coincidence. They see it as a sign, evidence, that there is someone up there, watching out for them. Group number two sees it as just pure luck. Just a happy turn of chance. I'm sure the people in group number two are looking at those fourteen lights in a very suspicious way. For them, the situation is a fifty-fifty. Could be bad, could be good. But deep down, they feel that whatever happens, they're on their own. And that fills them with fear. Yeah, there are those people. But there's a whole lot of people in group number one. When they see those fourteen lights, they're looking at a miracle. And deep down, they feel that whatever's going to happen, there will be someone there to help them. And that fills them with hope. See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, that sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky? Or, look at the question this way: Is it possible that there are no coincidences?

I think the bible is a great guideline on how we should live our lives even if some of the shit in there is absolutely rediculous. I'm not saying you have to be a Christian, but there is a lot of good info in there of how to keep your nose clean.

Lastly, I can't explain love. I know y'all are going to light me up for this, but I think love is very powerful and can't be explained or broken down by science or chemistry. 88, I'm sure you would do anything for your kids becuase you love them as much as you love your wife and I bet your stomach would swiftly rise up to your throat if you received a phone call about of them being in some sort of accident. To me, that is beyond any type of rational explanation and has something to do with a supreme being injecting the feeling of love in our bodies.

Just my .02.

[Smackie Chan]

Smackie, I think you know what I meant, and if you didn't, no explanation would suffice.

What I think you meant was that the sentimental subjective part of your mind, often referred to as heart, has been "shown" something you believe to be truth. By what means it has been shown to you and the others who claim to have been shown this truth eludes me. In your case, did it come to you in a dream, or were you awake and aware when your "heart" was shown this truth? Was it a singular occurrence, or has it happened multiple times? Was it audible? Visible? Did Jesus talk to you, or was it his old man or maybe his mama? Or is it one of those "spiritual" thingies that defy being explained in words? Just wondering how these showings to the heart actually manifest themselves.

Let me ask you to speculate about something. Do you think this "truth" would have been shown to you had you not been exposed to the teachings of Christianity beforehand?

[mvscal]

Lastly, I can't explain love. I know y'all are going to light me up for this, but I think love is very powerful and can't be explained or broken down by science or chemistry.

Horseshit. It's a survival adaptation, idiot.

[War Wagon]

Did you vote?

I just did. Interesting to see that the believers outnumber the atheists 2-1. You wouldn't guess that reading the responses.

What kind of a choice is "No, but I believe anyway" and who are the 2 dumbfucks checked that box? Did you vote twice?

[trev]

I have it tied at 15 yes, 15 no.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

WTF is the difference between "Yes" and "Yes, for sure." Then, as Wags pointed out, you provided an option that makes zero sense whatsoever.

This should be pretty simple, trev. Do you believe in God?

Option 1: Yes.
Option 2: No.
Option 3: I believe in the possibility of god, but need scientific proof.

God, I hope you are better at fixing turkey sandwiches than you are at configuring polls.

[War Wagon]

I was using Byzantine math, btw.

[Dr_Phibes]

Religion is, quite simply, a man-made creation used to exert control over others. And it is very effective.

Not sure how accurate that is, it's rife with examples of being a tool for social liberation as well as oppression. Oppression exists in situations without religious influence. Reason, debate, logic and doubt have played an important role in all the mainstream religions, it's probably safe to say that it reflects the social environment rather than the other way round.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Not sure if there really is a God or not, but I do believe it is all speculation until we have scientific proof of a supreme being. A lot of science, hypothesis', and theories have been proven over the years to further denigrate the existence of God; however, I've also seen, heard and read about events taking place that are just too crazy to explain.

For one, the couple who lost all three of their children (two girls and a boy) due to a horrible automobile accident. The mother and father were devastated. They tried and tried again to have children and no luck, then some years later, they were blessed with triplets (two girsl and a boy). That is too crazy to explain IMO. Lots of little coincedences out there like this one that makes me think there is something out there that does provides miracles. Not sure what it is, but its something out of our control.

Sorry Coogs, while it is an extraordinary blessing (and I use the term blessing, in this instance, as an equation for luck) the fact that the couple had another set of children was simply a role of the genetic dice. A conicedence. Now I'm not saying there are no miracles, because life in and of itself is a miraculous thing, and some events occur that seem to defy a sense of rational explanation. But this does not indicate or prove the involvement of a Supreme Being. Doesn't disprove it either. That's a matter of faith, and faith is what you make it.

People break down into two groups. When they experience something lucky, group number one sees it as more than luck, more than coincidence. They see it as a sign, evidence, that there is someone up there, watching out for them. Group number two sees it as just pure luck. Just a happy turn of chance. I'm sure the people in group number two are looking at those fourteen lights in a very suspicious way. For them, the situation is a fifty-fifty. Could be bad, could be good. But deep down, they feel that whatever happens, they're on their own. And that fills them with fear. Yeah, there are those people. But there's a whole lot of people in group number one. When they see those fourteen lights, they're looking at a miracle. And deep down, they feel that whatever's going to happen, there will be someone there to help them. And that fills them with hope. See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, that sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky? Or, look at the question this way: Is it possible that there are no coincidences?

Well quoting Mel Gibson in "Signs" isn't going to score you any brownie points. And people who believe in luck and coincedence are NOT filled with fear or feel they are on their own. I know plenty of perfectly happy folks who are atheistic, or like Smackie, are pantheists. They don't live in dread, they don't fear the reaper, they don't wring their hands with worry that there is nothing beyond this realm. Face it, we are all born to die. From the moment you suck that first breath when you bust out of the womb, you are already in the first stages of passing on. So instead of all this crap about living life to appease your maker, it should just be about trying to do right by your fellow man on this one and only stage. To quote Eric Idle in "Life of Brian"...

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.

So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath

Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

I think the bible is a great guideline on how we should live our lives even if some of the shit in there is absolutely rediculous. I'm not saying you have to be a Christian, but there is a lot of good info in there of how to keep your nose clean.

Agreed, there is some good advice in that book. But you should really just consider it as a guideline, as life lessons. If you take the standard Christian viewpoint that every word in the Bible is truth, and that the book is infallible, you're living in a dreamworld. The book has been so corrupted by religious politics over the years, that the truth, the real truth behind the Word has been filtered down to fishwater.

Lastly, I can't explain love. I know y'all are going to light me up for this, but I think love is very powerful and can't be explained or broken down by science or chemistry. 88, I'm sure you would do anything for your kids becuase you love them as much as you love your wife and I bet your stomach would swiftly rise up to your throat if you received a phone call about of them being in some sort of accident. To me, that is beyond any type of rational explanation and has something to do with a supreme being injecting the feeling of love in our bodies.

Just my .02.

Dude, love is an emotion, a chemical reaction inside the brain. The only thing we are infected with is neurons and synapses that work as internal chemists inside our bodies. What you "feel" is just your brain reacting to external stimulus. I'm not saying this to discredit or over-simplify the very real "feelings" of love and hate and fear and joy, just try to comprehend that they probably aren't the movings and shakings of a God, be he or she or it real or unreal.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I'll worry about that when I exit the Stage Eternal.

End scene.

[trev]

WTF is the difference between "Yes" and "Yes, for sure." Then, as Wags pointed out, you provided an option that makes zero sense whatsoever.

This should be pretty simple, trev. Do you believe in God?

Option 1: Yes.
Option 2: No.
Option 3: I believe in the possibility of god, but need scientific proof.

God, I hope you are better at fixing turkey sandwiches than you are at configuring polls.

WTH? It's 50% yes and 50% no. We have 6 options, 3 yes, 3 no. Why complicate things?

[Atomic Punk]

If you think about it trev, you could have just asked, "Do you believe in God or not?"

[trev]

No. Why do you think I got so many different answers?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

We have 6 options, 3 yes, 3 no.

Interesting. I see five options - three being yes, one being no, and the last being no, but yes.

Why complicate things?

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Which do you see 2 of, trev? The middle one?


.
.
..
.
.

[R-Jack]

I voted for the third no.

[War Wagon]

Or is it one of those "spiritual" thingies that defy being explained in words?

Yes, it's a spiritual "thingie", explained fairly well in the New Testament (King James version) and in particular the gospels. The answers to your questions lie within that text.

Of course, any body reading those words not receptive to the message, it will bounce right off and not make a dent, like trying to pour water into a jar with the lid shut. For the naysayers, they will only find further ammunition to discredit. And that's fine. It doesn't bother me if you don't believe.

[War Wagon]

Since nobody here has died, I guess nobody really knows...

I've come close. And yes, there was an experience that I cannot fully explain, one that proves to me that there is, in fact, something after we die. Exactly what, I don't know, I only saw a brief glimpse of a shadow of it. But it was more than enough.

However, insofar as it was a personal experience and one that cannot be repeated (not by me, anyway), it cannot be properly used as evidence to prove His existence to others.

Take another shot at it and report back with further findings.

[Onions]

Since nobody here has died, I guess nobody really knows...

I've come close. And yes, there was an experience that I cannot fully explain, one that proves to me that there is, in fact, something after we die. Exactly what, I don't know, I only saw a brief glimpse of a shadow of it. But it was more than enough.

However, insofar as it was a personal experience and one that cannot be repeated (not by me, anyway), it cannot be properly used as evidence to prove His existence to others.

bullfukkenshit

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... n-dioxide/

[trev]

We have 6 options, 3 yes, 3 no.

Interesting. I see five options - three being yes, one being no, and the last being no, but yes.

Why complicate things?

yes, yes, yes, no, no, yes