Decyphering Bible Prophecy

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Last night I was up pretty late with my Bible studies (using my companion guide for quick references) and I fell asleep in my recliner.

When I woke up, my Bible had fallen on the floor and was opened up with my highlighter marker pointing to Mark 5:11.

Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.


Should I read anything into this? It's been weighing on my conscience all day.

:?

[Dinsdale]

It either refers to the Sermon on the Mount, or the upcoming Mt Arafat dealio... not sure which.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Thank you, Dins.

Phewww! That's a load off my mind!

[poptart]

Swine readings can be terrific fun, yes, but Mark 5:11 is not prophecy.


Isaiah 60:1-3 is prophecy.

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.



Marty = Gentile

[Felix]

The bible is filled with alleged prophecies...like Luke 24:46. "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day," Corinthians 15:3-4: "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures." Jesus plainly said it had been written that he would "rise again from the dead the third day"

uh okay, which "scriptures" are we talking about and exactly where is this prophecy written?

it ain't in the old testament because I've looked for these very specific prophecies and couldn't ever find them....

little help here tart

[poptart]

it ain't in the old testament because I've looked for these very specific prophecies and couldn't ever find them....

I suspect it is because you don't want to find them.

The Pharisees were 'experts' in Old Testament Scripture.
And the entire Old Testament is about... Christ.
This Christ stood ---> right in front of their faces, and they couldn't recognize Him.

Then Jesus said to them, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

Every page of Scripture is talking about Christ.


The first thing, Felix, is to notice that neither Luke 24:46 or 1 Corinthians 5:3-4 says that it is a fulfillment of PROPHECY.

1 Corinthians says it is was 'according to the Scriptures...,' and Luke 24 says 'thus it is written and thus it behoved Christ...'


If you read the whole chapter of Luke 24, you can notice that in v.27 it says this, And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them (His followers) in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

And then in v.44 He said, "These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."


Jesus was telling His followers that all of Scripture is about Him and that all that was written by Moses, the prophets, and in the Psalms was written about Him.

And then He said what you cited in v.46: "Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day."


I could walk with you from the first page of Genesis... throughout the Bible, and show you Christ.
Example:

Genesis 1:1-3
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The Light in v.3 is Christ.



Hosea 6:1-2
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Christ will rise on the 3rd day and believers shall live.



The Pharisess could not see this.

[Felix]

I suspect it is because you don't want to find them.

I looked for them, they just weren't there

Every page of Scripture is talking about Christ.

not the old testament it isn't...the old testament is pretty much confined to sacrificing animals, and this cat destroying entire civilizations, and reigning his wrath on people, killing people, vengeance, etc....

The first thing, Felix, is to notice that neither Luke 24:46 or 1 Corinthians 5:3-4 says that it is a fulfillment of PROPHECY.

bullshit, the entire new testament claims to be fulfillment of the old testament prophecies, yet most of what the claim never happened....look, you're an apologetic, and that's okay by me, but the claims that jesus fulfills old testament prophecies is rubbish

1 Corinthians says it is was 'according to the Scriptures...,' and Luke 24 says 'thus it is written and thus it behoved Christ...'

which scriptures....the ones that were primarily written by one guy (new) or the old scriptures, which were primarily written by one guy?

[poptart]

I looked for them, they just weren't there

I just showed you Hosea 6:1-2.

Christ did according to this Scripture.
Hosea 6:1-2 was written, and it behoved Christ to suffer, die, and rise on the 3rd day so that we may live.


The Pharisees persecuted Jesus because they said He was not following the law.

Jesus replied to them, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17.


The law was not a prophecy to be fulfilled, was it?

Yet Christ used the word FULFILL, as if it was like a prophecy.

Yes, He fulfilled it - because He is the total completion of the law, and ALL Scripture.


The entire Old Testament is filled with 'foreshadows' of the coming Christ.

I showed you Genesis 1:3 - Light.

Then we can see fulfillment (according to the Scripture, or as it is written) in John 1.

John 1:1-9
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9]That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


The examples are endless - and as I said, Christ is on every page of the Bible.

Exodus 12:23 - The passover blood (Christ) sprinkled on the doorposts to free the Israelites from their bondage in Egypt (satan).


On and on and on...

All Scripture was written.
It is all about Christ.
Christ did according to the Scripture and He is the completion of it all.

[poptart]

the claims that jesus fulfills old testament prophecies is rubbish

A variety of Old Testament writers put together prophecies telling the precise and very narrow family line that the Messiah would come through.
They also told the place of birth and the general time period in which the Messiah would appear.

Jesus fulfilled it.


Noah had three sons (Ham, Shem, and Japheth).
The Messiah was said to be coming through the line of Shem.

Later, the Messiah was said to be coming through Abraham, who came from Shem.

Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael.
The Messiah was said to be coming from Isaac.

Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau.
The Messiah was said to be coming through Jacob.

Jacob had twelve sons.
His son Judah was said to be the one (of 12 - the 12 tribes of Israel) through whom the Messiah would come.

Then of all the tribes within the line of Judah, the Messiah was said to be coming through Jesse.

Of Jesse's eight children, the Messiah was said to be coming through the line of David.


The man, Jesus, came through this very narrow and precise family line - as predicted.

The place of birth (Bethlehem) was also predicted.
The general time period (He would come when the Temple of Jerusalem was still standing) which he would appear was also prophesied.


Not only did Jesus show Himself, through this and MANY other things, to be the Christ, but because of this narrow predicted 'address in history,' it's not even possible for anyone other than Jesus to be the Christ.


You can not believe in Him as the Christ if you don't want to, Felix, but saying there is not fulfillment of prophecy by Him is just not an accurate take.

There is REMARKABLE fulfillment.

[Felix]

You can not believe in Him as the Christ if you don't want to, Felix, but saying there is not fulfillment of prophecy by Him is just not an accurate take.

There is REMARKABLE fulfillment.

uh, you want to try that again in english?

the bible must be true, because god said it was, as it fulfills his word, we know it's true




look boss, if you want to live your life based on that particular book have at it....humans are "a path of least resistance" species, so it's easy to understand why so many repose so much trust in the bible you don't have to think for yourself, you don't have to try to understand anything about the world around you.....it's all laid out....

e.g. path of least resistance

[poptart]

the bible must be true, because god said it was, as it fulfills his word, we know it's true

Why do you continue to make these kinds of weird and bogus conclusions based on what I present, Felix?

You said, "the claims that jesus fulfills old testament prophecies is rubbish," and I just wanted to point out that you're incorrect about that.

[Felix]

A variety of Old Testament writers put together prophecies telling the precise and very narrow family line that the Messiah would come through.

uh sorry to say that by and large, the "prophecies" claimed to have been fulfilled, weren't really prophecies at all.....of course, there are two different lineages written in the bible so which is the correct one? and actually he was supposed to be named Immanuel.....so why the name change?

They also told the place of birth and the general time period in which the Messiah would appear.

and lets be perfectly honest here, whoever wrote the gospels had more than a passing familiarity with the old testament...say, you don't think those gospels could have been tailored to the old testament do you?


Noah had three sons (Ham, Shem, and Japheth).
The Messiah was said to be coming through the line of Shem.

Later, the Messiah was said to be coming through Abraham, who came from Shem.

Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael.
The Messiah was said to be coming from Isaac.

Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau.
The Messiah was said to be coming through Jacob.

Jacob had twelve sons.
His son Judah was said to be the one (of 12 - the 12 tribes of Israel) through whom the Messiah would come.

Then of all the tribes within the line of Judah, the Messiah was said to be coming through Jesse.

Of Jesse's eight children, the Messiah was said to be coming through the line of David.


The man, Jesus, came through this very narrow and precise family line - as predicted.

was that the lineage in Matthew or Luke?

The place of birth (Bethlehem) was also predicted.
The general time period (He would come when the Temple of Jerusalem was still standing) which he would appear was also prophesied.


Not only did Jesus show Himself, through this and MANY other things, to be the Christ, but because of this narrow predicted 'address in history,' it's not even possible for anyone other than Jesus to be the Christ.

lets be honest here, whoever wrote the new testament had to have had more than a passing knowledge of the old testament.....couldn't the new testament have been tailored to fulfill the old testament predictions? did jesus bring peace on earth, or bring the Jews back to Israel and end disease? those we're alleged prophecies that didn't come to pass...didn’t he promise to return before his contemporaries died?

given that you like to use quotes from your book so much, here's a quote from one of my favorites

“Every case of alleged fulfillment of messianic prophecy suffers from one of the following failings: the alleged Old Testament prophecy is not a messianic prophecy or not a prophecy at all, the prophecy has not been fulfilled by Jesus, or the prophecy is so vague as to be unconvincing in its application to Jesus.

“The Fabulous Prophecies of the Messiah”

a real eye opening examination of the "prophecies" and is something I would highly suggest someone like you read

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... ecies.html

[poptart]

Both lineages (which meet at David), are correct and both trace back exactly through the prophesied progression.

The purpose of the family line shown in Matthew (Matthew 1) is to show Jesus' geneaology in a way which demonstrates his legal right to the throne of David ---> and coming from Abraham.
This is His lineage as it traces back from his legal earthly father, Joseph.

The purpose of the family line shown in Luke (Luke 3) is to show His physical lineage, tracing back from Mary (He had no physical earthly father) ---> and going all the way back to Adam.



Isaiah 7:14 does not make the prophecy that Mary will name the child Immanuel.

It says - she (the virgin) shall bear a son and shall -call his name- Immanuel.

"Calling someone a name" and naming someone are entirely different things.

Immanuel is a title - God with us.

It's like my realization, or understanding, or confession that Curt (my father) is my Dad.
I call his name Dad.

Mary called Jesus Immanuel (God with us).

Acts 1:14 - Mary, along with others who were witness to Jesus' resurrection (and realization that He is 'God with us'), were together with one accord in prayer - just before the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit was given.

did jesus bring peace on earth, or bring the Jews back to Israel and end disease? those we're alleged prophecies that didn't come to pass...didn’t he promise to return before his contemporaries died?

What Old Testament Scriptures are you wanting to point out for these things?

[poptart]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... ecies.html

It's one gross misrepresentation/outright falsehood after another, Felix.

I honestly feel very sad when I see something like that.

[Felix]

I honestly feel very sad when I see something like that.

of course you do

[Van]

Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

Should I read anything into this?

Yes. The Bible is in desperate need of a decent editor.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Truly, prophecy can be quite subjective in interpretation.