Solar technology is a Joke

[Cuda]

so... how many solar panels did you end up buying?

[indyfrisco]

Gee - that's great except I'm using 4000 Kwh a month

Color me green with envy. I'm guessing your energy rates are pretty damn high if you are getting only 4000 kwh for $550. My last bill was $742 for 7585 kwh. I guess I should feel lucky that Indiana's per kwh rate is around 10 cents. Seen it as high as 32 cents in other states.

Something is wrong with our house. I'm having an energy efficiency company come check it out. Either I have very little insulation or some major air leaks. Our AC units tend to run nonstop. I plan on going geothermal, but I was not planning to do that until we completed our expansion of the family room. Something's gotta be done now because ~7500 kwh is ridiculous.

[Mikey]

You do know that with a fuel cell you still have to buy the fuel...don't you?

The smallest Bloom unit (100 kw) is large enough to power your home and about 50 others (or 3 IndyFrisco style residences).

I don't know if they're selling these in your part of the country yet, but here's one that might be closer to your speed...

http://www.clearedgepower.com/

[Dinsdale]

AURORA -- When Dan Lever advertised a quarter-section of farmland for rent east of town, a man replied with an idea for a more permanent crop.

Lever now has 2,100 ground-mounted solar panels shining near his house. "It's not a typical sight in a pastoral area," Lever said. "But we'll get used to it."

The $2 million project buzzed to life July 1, one of the first large-scale participants in Portland General Electric's solar payment option program, which buys electricity produced by customers and transfers it to the electric grid. The 500 kilowatt system is also Clackamas County's largest ground-mounted solar array, practically hidden on some of the area's oldest farmland.

"Nobody really knows about it unless you're one of the neighbors," said Kirk Cameron, whose Lake Oswego-based firm, NW Photon Energy, developed the project.

Cameron expects to produce 575,000 kilowatt-hours every year, enough energy to power 53 homes. A Portland solar funding company Cameron co-owns, 3CSolar, put up half of the $2 million pricetag. Umpqua Bank financed the remainder. The company also received a 30 percent federal rebate, but no state incentives.

An automated system tallies the electricity and bills PGE under a 15-year agreement. The company earns 39 cents per kilowatt-hour, or about $20,000 every month, said Chris Copp, a second 3CSolar partner.

Cameron expects to turn a profit after seven years.

The project covers more than two acres of land tucked behind farmhouses along Southwest Meridian Road, which winds past nurseries and pastures. A wire fence wraps around the property, where 2,128 polycrystalline solar panels face south at a 40-degree tilt.

When Lever, the landowner, first heard about the proposal, he thought of the rising fuel costs that have forced him to charge his own customers more this year. "It's either something like this, or it's going to be high fuel prices," he said. "It's a tradeoff."

Eight workers spent three months installing the panels, purchased from Connecticut-based Schuco USA. Near-record rains stalled construction for about a month, but Copp said the Clackamas County site has a 5 percent solar advantage over similar spots in Multnomah County, based on elevation level and the number of sunny, clear days.

Cameron founded NW Photon Energy three years ago, installing solar systems at area businesses. Earlier this year, he set up a commercial solar system at Sonic in Wilsonville, another participant in the PGE solar program.

But his Oregon projects have dwindled since the legislature eliminated the state's business energy tax credits, he said. "Rather than managing the credits well, they stopped it altogether," he said.

That "drastically, drastically" drained private interest in solar energy, he said. "How does it not? Businesses want to go green, but they can't afford to go green."

Cameron will shift his focus to Nevada and California after he launches the Aurora project, which he doesn't plan to staff.

Instead, the Lever family will wash the panels. A daughter, home for the summer from college, will weed the property.

"I can't do much on a world scale," Lever said. "I can do a little bit."

-- Molly Young

That's our geniuses at work -- buy electricity for $0.39, then turn around and sell it for $0.10, while the tit-sucking grifters get rich.

That's Green Economics.

[Goober McTuber]

Gee - that's great except I'm using 4000 Kwh a month

Color me green with envy. I'm guessing your energy rates are pretty damn high if you are getting only 4000 kwh for $550. My last bill was $742 for 7585 kwh. I guess I should feel lucky that Indiana's per kwh rate is around 10 cents. Seen it as high as 32 cents in other states.

Holy shit. My last bill was $99.94 for 721 KHH. You must have a massive grow operation in the basement, IrieFrisco.

[Mikey]

Gee - that's great except I'm using 4000 Kwh a month

Color me green with envy. I'm guessing your energy rates are pretty damn high if you are getting only 4000 kwh for $550. My last bill was $742 for 7585 kwh. I guess I should feel lucky that Indiana's per kwh rate is around 10 cents. Seen it as high as 32 cents in other states.

Something is wrong with our house. I'm having an energy efficiency company come check it out. Either I have very little insulation or some major air leaks. Our AC units tend to run nonstop. I plan on going geothermal, but I was not planning to do that until we completed our expansion of the family room. Something's gotta be done now because ~7500 kwh is ridiculous.

Damn, you guys are real energy hogs. For 5/23 through 6/23 our bill was 853 kWh ($187). I guess that comes from living with high rates for so long.

We have a tiered rate structure - the first 336 kWh is $0.14/kWh, the next 101 kWh is $0.16/kWh, the next 235 kWh is $0.29/kWh and anything above is $0.31. We're about 181 kWh into Tier 4. This makes the sizing and payback estimates for alternative technologies a little more interesting. I've been considering solar for a few years now. We also need a patio cover and we could include the cost in the 30% federal tax credit if it's built "primarily" to support the free standing PV system. I would only size any system, though, to offset the top two tiers. Tier 1 and Tier 2 just don't make a reasonable payback.

[Go Coogs']

Scott, have you looked into a heat pump?

From what my brother-in-law tells me, he is supposed to get his money back in seven years.

[mvscal]

Supposedly with the Nat Gas shale discovery at Bakken, Eagleford and Marcellus we have so much we don't know what to do with it all.

Hydrofracking is problematic in areas where there isn't a whole hell of a lot of water. We'll need to find a better way to make those fields economically viable.

[mvscal]

That's our geniuses at work -- buy electricity for $0.39, then turn around and sell it for $0.10, while the tit-sucking grifters get rich.

That's Green Economics.

"Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Coal-powered plants, you know, natural gas, you name it, whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers."

A study of renewable energy in Scotland shows that for every job created in the alternative energy sector, almost four jobs are lost in the rest of the economy.

If these numbers were extrapolated to America, instead of a touted 3 million-job gain from alternative energy, we should expect the loss of at least 6.6 million jobs in other industries.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... -Job-.aspx

Thanks asshole. Good job totally fucking up the country, you stupid niggger.

[smackaholic]

mikey, your rates are low because you got that big cold thing called the pacific ocean providing a pretty steady 80 degrees, 3% humidity.

KC and indy have, well, they have 1000 miles or so of hot dirt keeping that natural cooling effect at bay. then in about 3 weeks it flip flops and all that dirt freezes solid.

gotta love the midwest.

i am reasonably close to that other big cold thing on the other side of the country, but, it don't work as good as yours does, but, thanks to a reasonably insulated reasonably sized ('sup indy) casa with a monster oak tree about 15 ft off the south side, i get by with running a few small window units a couple days a year. electric bill generally stays south of 100 bucks, depending on how much the dryer and pool pump are run.

forgot to mention the whole house fan.

for those who live in areas where it does cool off a bit at night, you really need one. a house holds a shitload of heat overnight unless you crank that bitch up. it will get your house interior to pretty much the outside temp in a half hour or so. if you live in hell southern misery, don't bother. no point in sucking in outside air that is still at 91 degrees at 11PM.

i think geothermal is the way to go if you are sure you will be in your crib until ltsturd has a take that doesn't suck. well, that might be a bit long. 10-15 years might make it worthwhile. i suppose it does boost home value some, but prolly not enough.

[Mikey]

Gee - that's great except I'm using 4000 Kwh a month

Color me green with envy. I'm guessing your energy rates are pretty damn high if you are getting only 4000 kwh for $550. My last bill was $742 for 7585 kwh. I guess I should feel lucky that Indiana's per kwh rate is around 10 cents. Seen it as high as 32 cents in other states.

For June I used 4309 KW/H and the bill was 553 so it worked out to 12.8 cents per hour which little miss sunshhine told me was sorta high in comparison to KCPL.

Damn, you guys are real energy hogs. For 5/23 through 6/23 our bill was 853 kWh ($187). I guess that comes from living with high rates for so long.

How big is your place? anything run non stop besides your pool motor?

Scott, have you looked into a heat pump?

From what my brother-in-law tells me, he is supposed to get his money back in seven years.

If it was just the AC I'd consider it, but I'd need to buy two beacuse we have zoned AC.

It spikes in the summer to be sure, but we average 2,000 KWH in the winter
I have two kids and a wife at home that never saw a light, TV or computer they can remember to turn off

This year we trned on the AC mid-May and it will probably run through end of Sept.

We have about 2600 sf, single story slab on grade. 3 br, 2 ba, no gas. We have propane for water and space heating and the dryer, but an all electric kitchen, plus the pool pump. It got up to the high 80s here last week but I still resisted turning the AC on. It was pretty warm in the afternoon in the house, up to about 84, but not too humid. Cools down at night pretty well and we run a few fans. A whole house fan would be a nice addition. 2,000 kWh in the winter is a lot. Have you switched any lights out to CFLs?

Our biggest usage in the summer was about 2400 kWh. And that was before I switched out the pool pump for a variable speed drive and was keeping the t-stat at about 76 during a very hot summer. Yes, we are pretty dry and only 15 miles from the coast, but our summer temps are typically 10 to 15 degrees hotter than they are at the beach.

Another thing about fuel cells that you have to keep in mind is that their preformance degrades over time. Typically you would probably have to switch out the stack (the main electricity making part) about every 5 years, so you need to consider what kind of performance guarantee you're getting and any service agreements. One thing about PV systems is that you install it and it runs for 20 or 25 years virtually maintenance free. Just keep them relatively clean and don't throw rocks at them.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Not all solar power necessarily means photo-voltaic.

[smackaholic]

mikey,

if you don't run out and buy a whole house fan yesterday, you are nearly as dumb as let's turd.....and gax......and love black cock...etc.....so on.

it makes double sense for you as all that socal sun generated thermal mass will hang around like unwelcome inlaws unless you blow it out your ass errrr roof.

one thing i don't get. why the fukk don't you get a solar water heater. you know, the smart solar. the kind that just takes all that radiant heat goodness and stuffs it in a water tank the old fashioned way. a dr science smarty pants like you could rig one up yourself. and unlike all that other foolishness, it makes sense, is cheap and will help the planet....almost as much as algore does flying around in a big private jet collecting carbon credits.

such a heater would get you all the 100 degree water you need. maybe use your propane to boost it up to higher temps for the dishwasher/warshin' machine.

[Felix]

after reading these power bills I sure am glad I live in an area with lots of hydroelectric power

fuck $700 mo. power bills and the horse they rode in on

[Dinsdale]

Not all solar power necessarily means photo-voltaic.

We considered building a solar preheater for the water heater.

Nice idea, but the garage where the water heater lives is uaually about a million degrees (F) in summer, so it doesn't take much (gas) to run it anyway.


BTW-if you call that cylindrical thing in your garage/utility room a "hot water heater," you're a mouthbreating tard, and you probably say things like "at this point in time," and "stupid idiot" a lot.

[War Wagon]

ah yes, another $cott thread informing everyone of what a copious consumer he is... for those that hadn't got it already.

[Dinsdale]

you're a mouthbreating tard, and you probably say things like "at this point in time," and "stupid idiot" a lot.

And while I was typing that, the Board Grammarian comes up with...

boost it up to higher temps

[Dinsdale]

ah yes, another $cott thread informing everyone of what a copious consumer he is... for those that hadn't got it already.

Nah, a psychologist wouldn't have a field day with him or anything.

[Mikey]

mikey,

if you don't run out and buy a whole house fan yesterday, you are nearly as dumb as let's turd.....and gax......and love black cock...etc.....so on.

it makes double sense for you as all that socal sun generated thermal mass will hang around like unwelcome inlaws unless you blow it out your ass errrr roof.

one thing i don't get. why the fukk don't you get a solar water heater. you know, the smart solar. the kind that just takes all that radiant heat goodness and stuffs it in a water tank the old fashioned way. a dr science smarty pants like you could rig one up yourself. and unlike all that other foolishness, it makes sense, is cheap and will help the planet....almost as much as algore does flying around in a big private jet collecting carbon credits.

such a heater would get you all the 100 degree water you need. maybe use your propane to boost it up to higher temps for the dishwasher/warshin' machine.

Solar water heating isn't as simple as you might think. For one thing, you have to use all the hot water or figure out a way to keep it from over heating in hot weather. Not that it's really complicated, but it's not just a matter of throwing up a few collectors and a storage tank. And the savings potential really just isn't that great. How much do you figure you spend on hot water (if you have gas) vs. electricity?

Besides, I already do have most of the west facing roof of my house covered with a solar water heater. For the pool.

[Dinsdale]

Solar water heating isn't as simple as you might think. For one thing, you have to use all the hot water or figure out a way to keep it from over heating in hot weather.

Makes the simple preheater a solid choice.

[smackaholic]

And while I was typing that, the Board Grammarian comes up with...

boost it up to higher temps

:?

let's see, there ain't none of them dreaded apostrophe thingies there. what'd i fukk up?

[smackaholic]

mikey,

if you don't run out and buy a whole house fan yesterday, you are nearly as dumb as let's turd.....and gax......and love black cock...etc.....so on.

it makes double sense for you as all that socal sun generated thermal mass will hang around like unwelcome inlaws unless you blow it out your ass errrr roof.

one thing i don't get. why the fukk don't you get a solar water heater. you know, the smart solar. the kind that just takes all that radiant heat goodness and stuffs it in a water tank the old fashioned way. a dr science smarty pants like you could rig one up yourself. and unlike all that other foolishness, it makes sense, is cheap and will help the planet....almost as much as algore does flying around in a big private jet collecting carbon credits.

such a heater would get you all the 100 degree water you need. maybe use your propane to boost it up to higher temps for the dishwasher/warshin' machine.

Solar water heating isn't as simple as you might think. For one thing, you have to use all the hot water or figure out a way to keep it from over heating in hot weather. Not that it's really complicated, but it's not just a matter of throwing up a few collectors and a storage tank. And the savings potential really just isn't that great. How much do you figure you spend on hot water (if you have gas) vs. electricity?

Besides, I already do have most of the west facing roof of my house covered with a solar water heater. For the pool.

Seems like that pool could serve as a convenient heat dump if things got cooking too much. does it get to the point where the pool is too hot to use like it does in the L&R?

[Dinsdale]

And while I was typing that, the Board Grammarian comes up with...

boost it up to higher temps

let's see, there ain't none of them dreaded apostrophe thingies there. what'd i fukk up?

Seriously?


Your struggles with American English have become legendary.


Are you sure Mikey doesn't want to boost it down to higher temps?

[Mikey]

Seems like that pool could serve as a convenient heat dump if things got cooking too much. does it get to the point where the pool is too hot to use like it does in the L&R?

Doesn't get too hot to use but by midsummer I'm not running the heater anymore to heat the pool. On hot days the pool will get up to 85 or 86 with no heater. Almost too hot to swim laps in but not to hot to jump in after yard work. On days like that, though, I can heat the spa up to 102 in 30 or 45 minutes with solar only.

[Y2K]

Seems like that pool could serve as a convenient heat dump if things got cooking too much. does it get to the point where the pool is too hot to use like it does in the L&R?

Doesn't get too hot to use but by midsummer I'm not running the heater anymore to heat the pool. On hot days the pool will get up to 85 or 86 with no heater. Almost too hot to swim laps in but not to hot to jump in after yard work. On days like that, though, I can heat the spa up to 102 in 30 or 45 minutes with solar only.

You live in local..you are not allowed to talk about weather...just wait fot the big one ...mmmkay?

[Mikey]

Seems like that pool could serve as a convenient heat dump if things got cooking too much. does it get to the point where the pool is too hot to use like it does in the L&R?

Doesn't get too hot to use but by midsummer I'm not running the heater anymore to heat the pool. On hot days the pool will get up to 85 or 86 with no heater. Almost too hot to swim laps in but not to hot to jump in after yard work. On days like that, though, I can heat the spa up to 102 in 30 or 45 minutes with solar only.

You live in local..you are not allowed to talk about weather...just wait fot the big one ...mmmkay?

'swhy I got me these here shock absorber shoes.



When that big one comes, I'll be fukkin' ready.

[smackaholic]

Seriously?


Your struggles with American English have become legendary.


Are you sure Mikey doesn't want to boost it down to higher temps?

clumsily worded, perhaps, but that's not grammar, dumbshit. kind of like using hot water heater.

[Truman]

let's see, there ain't none of them dreaded apostrophe thingies there. what'd i fukk up?

Seriously?


Your struggles with American English have become legendary.


Are you sure Mikey doesn't want to boost it down to higher temps?

Perfectly acceptable American colloquialism, Dins.

What outrages your English sensibilities is its literal translation to British English.

Heck, I’ve known folks to cut boards “half in two”, or tell you that ”you can’t git there from here.” And of course, there’s the nearly-ubiquitous expression, ”where’re you at?”

Always good sport to ”take the mickey” out of smackaholic, Dins, but there’s no need to go all ”Bertie big bollocks” over his per usualm demolition of the Queen’s English. :p

[indyfrisco]

Yeah, there's definitely something wrong. Same period last year was 2000+ less kwh.

[Dinsdale]

clumsily worded, perhaps, but that's not grammar, dumbshit.

"Usage" falls under the category "grammar"... tell me you knew?