Birds vs an MD-11 in Portland a few years ago...

[Left Seater]

My brother sent me these photos that he took a few years ago after a Delta MD-11 was on its take off roll at MTOW. The birds hit after V1 which is a speed at which pilots rarely try to stop the plane on the runway. Above V1 you are usually flying and then coming back to the airport ASAP if something serious goes wrong. All but two of the tires blew out in the extreme braking and the plane stopped right at the end of the runway. This is where all of the sim time and training pays off.

The investigation concluded that a few hawks were chasing a large number of sea gulls. The number 3 engine was torn to hell and wasn't functioning by the time the plane stopped. The number 2 engine was fine, and the number 1 engine was damaged but still turning.

Nose dent


Number 1 engine debris on runway


Size of debris, that is an excursion in the background


Engine guts on trailer after cleanup


View of missing parts and damaged blades on number 3


Close up of number 3 stage 1 fan blades


Jacks and tire changing so plane can be towed


Hawk that was believed to have hit the nose


What remained of a gull?

[Derron]

This is what motivated a stepped up bird control effort there. it is right next to the Columbia River with a lot of water fowl, gulls and other migratory birds. Plus about 1000 acres of mowed grass attracts the red tails and falcons hunting rodents, and the coyotes as well. There has been coyote fence put around the entire airport areas a few years back.

That looks like it happened on 28L, which is the shorter of the 2 east west runways. No matter how hard you try those birds are always around. I drive out there a couple days a week in spring time and see hawks, gulls and geese all the time.

[Derron]

This is what motivated a stepped up bird control effort there.

Based on Jsc's post, I'd say El Paso needs a similar effort made toward keeping mechanics away from planes.

It is called "culling the herd".

[Van]

With there being so many birds and an ever-increasing number of planes, how does this not happen every day?

[Left Seater]

Scariest thing I have ever done around a plane was having to do an air start on a 737-200. An airstart is where an external unit forces compressed air thru the engine to begin it turning until it lights off and the exhaust gas keeps the first stages spinning.

The connection point was between the main gear under the plane. You had to drag the hose under the plane and between the gear which wasn't so bad. But when both were turning and then you had to disconnect and get the hell out of there was the horrible part. Freaking scary to a college kid.


Lots of methods Van, from Falcons to water and sonic cannons, to removal of water sources, etc. PDX though is right up against the Columbia river so it is doubly tough. Many medium to larger airports have a position dedicated strictly to bird control. Pilots along with controllers are announcing anytime we see them so the airport can go fix the issue.

[Derron]

They have remote controlled cannons, they have a falconer who brings falcons out to harass the other birds, they have people out with pyrotechnics all day long on 28L. It seems to attract more bird activity that 28R which is on the other side of the airport. Huge rafts of ducks and geese will hang out on the river, which as LS pointed out is about 200 feet from that runway. And nothing brings in hawks and herons better than closely mowed grass to mouse and forage. They have to hustle out there and move the birds off so they don't fuck up the sequencing, but it still happens all the time. I think PDX has 2 to 3 people on duirng the day to move birds and coyotes off the adjacent areas.

And to complicate it, the area is directly located in the Pacific Flyway which brings in huge flocks of water fowl and the associated predator birds with them. West bound departures also have a huge wild life area to the northwest as they leave, but noise abatement makes you put it on its tail on the way out, so you usually get clear by the time you get that far downrange, but you still have to pay attention because it is hard to get above 6000' by the time you are adjacent to that area. And I have seen flocks of geese up to 8,000 feet as well.

[Atomic Punk]

"Sucks" to be him.

We had one of our P-3's hit an albatross and it destroyed the nose while inbound to Midway Island behind us. Not a bad place to hang out for a few days. The only problem was the goony birds were everywhere on the island to the same nest they've had and would snap at you if you got near them.

Beautiful white sand beaches and a great officer's club.

[Ken]

Scariest thing I have ever done around a plane was having to do an air start on a 737-200

Did you announce to the passengers or could they even tell?

Last December coming back from Montreal we're landing at MSP and we touch down on the runway, then go right back up. Circle for 15 minutes then land. Pilot doesn't say a word. As we're getting off I asked what happened - he said "runway was occupied"

Yea, maybe it's better that we didn't know that

Both of these instances are quite common. I've been on many commercial flights that had to do an air start. Not a big deal and no need to tell passengers except for the fact there will be a slit delay in departure.

Touch 'n go's are not that uncommon also. Had a couple of those too. Also a couple where on approach and just before touchdown, the pilot aborts the landing, guns the engines, and climbs quickly for another go 'round. Generally happens simply because the plane that landed prior hasn't quite cleared the runway yet.

[Goober McTuber]

That's a WHOLE lotta space sucking in air.

IKYABWAI.

[Left Seater]

Did you announce to the passengers or could they even tell?

Last December coming back from Montreal we're landing at MSP and we touch down on the runway, then go right back up. Circle for 15 minutes then land. Pilot doesn't say a word. As we're getting off I asked what happened - he said "runway was occupied"

Yea, maybe it's better that we didn't know that

I wasn't the pilot. I was the guy making $6 an hour that had to crawl under there and connect and disconnect the air cart. As stated above pax usually have no idea that an air start is going on. The airlines usually pull the jet bridge back and everything downstairs is in pushback positions. Most pax don't stop to think about what is going on anyway. Hell the noise the Airbus hydros make when sitting over the wing makes a ton of people freak out.

I understand the pilot not saying anything for the first few minutes after the go around. Whole crap load of stuff going on up front at that point, most importantly keeping clear of departures. But to be silent for the remainder of the flight is piss poor.

Fuck. Yeah - I can see that being a bit scary. I reckon if you had to do that, it would be better doing it on an engine like that as opposed to one of these new P&W 115,000 lb. thrust monsters. I honestly don't see how these 777's aren't sucking everything in the world into those 10 foot mouths. That's a WHOLE lotta space sucking in air.

True, but on the 777 the engines are a lot further apart than they are on the 737-200. Plus the connection point isn't between the main gear, but is instead further back.

Touch 'n go's are not that uncommon also. Had a couple of those too. Also a couple where on approach and just before touchdown, the pilot aborts the landing, guns the engines, and climbs quickly for another go 'round. Generally happens simply because the plane that landed prior hasn't quite cleared the runway yet.

You fly enough and you will experience a go around. Ken is right on in that most is slow clears. Most likely on a runway without a ton of highspeed turnoffs. Those are the exits like on an interstate that are lesser angles instead of the right angle intersections.

would be interested to learn if that's ATC fuck up or the pilot who hadn't cleared the runway yet

Most aren't errors so much as a result of more traffic today than a decade ago etc. Say a plane lands a little long or floats and is 1500' past the threshold before the wheels are on the ground. They might not be slowed enough to turn off at the requested taxiway. It can also be departing traffic in front of the landing plane that was slow to start their roll or had to reject, etc.


The thing that even fewer pax know about are land and hold short clearances. Say you have a runway that is 8000' long and at the 6000' mark is an intersecting runway. If that intersecting runway is being used for departures then your flight could be cleared to land with the restriction that they must stop before the intersection or turnoff before said intersection.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

If a bird can jack up a jet airliner, we may want to get smarter people designing these things.

[Derron]

If a bird can jack up a jet airliner, we may want to get smarter people designing these things.

You honestly think that since the start of the commercial jet age back in the 50's that every attempt has not been made to minimize bird strike damage ? I mean what would you suggest be done to prevent this since you think the engineers are not that smart ?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

You honestly think that since the start of the commercial jet age back in the 50's that every attempt has not been made to minimize bird strike damage ? I mean what would you suggest be done to prevent this since you think the engineers are not that smart ?

Plaster the nose with newspaper.

[R-Jack]

Fuck yeah........

[Left Seater]

If a bird can jack up a jet airliner, we may want to get smarter people designing these things.

One bird didn't do this damage. This was well over 20 birds.

Flush toilets have been around longer, but they still can't flush a basketball, freakin' engineers.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I was just being an ass.

Cardboard. I'd go with cardboard.

[Rooster]

Rabbit trail story here:
I flew out of Merced, CA for a number of years and made frequent trips past the old Castle Air Force base there that had been sold to the town of Atwater. A local flight school started up that catered to Indian and Paki students who would go around and around the pattern practicing their touch-and-go technique. However, when talking to the tower there they'd say in that sing-songy Slurpee machine operator voice, "Cessna 1234 touching goats!"

It never failed to elicit a laff from me.

[BSmack]

Flush toilets have been around longer, but they still can't flush a basketball, freakin' engineers.

That explains why my pipes are always clogged.

[Derron]

Rabbit trail story here:
I flew out of Merced, CA for a number of years and made frequent trips past the old Castle Air Force base there that had been sold to the town of Atwater. A local flight school started up that catered to Indian and Paki students who would go around and around the pattern practicing their touch-and-go technique. However, when talking to the tower there they'd say in that sing-songy Slurpee machine operator voice, "Cessna 1234 touching goats!"

It never failed to elicit a laff from me.

Hillsboro Aviation at KHIO here is training every slope around to fly up to commercial and rotor ratings. They start out in the Cessna 150's and they call out goes something like this.." Hillbo Toer..Cessna 34 papapa don win wunway 30 souch and go.."

Sometime when they first start out the tower makes the instructor do the calls until they can fucking understand them. They make them call out constantly when out in the training areas doing their air work, because they have a hard enough time flying the plane, let alone watching for traffic...at least they fly above most of the inbound traffic..but you never know. Transit the area at your own risk.