Noah's Ark

[poptart]

Because Felix asked about Noah's Ark, I will post about it.


First, Scripture says this...

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

It doesn't say, He that believeth on the Ark...


Belief in a literal Noah's Ark is not a requirement for salvation, and I am sure there are many sincere Christians who don't believe it.

Myself, I believe it was a real event, and Jesus spoke of it as real. Matthew 24:37-39

Now I know that Felix (or whoever) can post link after link showing me I am wrong.
And I can counter with link after link demonstrating the opposite.
I won't go down that path.

Instead, I will point out the very important Spiritual message of Noah's Ark.


When Jesus spoke of the Ark (Matthew 24), He was talking about how horrendous things would be in the last days - and said it would be just like Noah's time.
Rampant disbelief in God, lawlessness, violence, debauchery, etc.

First, we should look at where Noah came from.

Cain lost hold of the needed blood Covenant, became influenced by satan because of that, and killed his brother.
After Cain killed his brother, God left Cain to go off away from Him - and there was a proliferation of non-believers which spawned from Cain.

After this, Adam and Eve had another child - named Seth, who produced a child named Enos - and the Bible says that from Enos, people believed in God.
The held the needed blood covenant.
We trail through many generations of Enos' line and come to... Noah, who God found to be righteous.


Why had the earth become so corrupt and wicked at this time?

1. Of course the people of Cain were FUBAR'd because they didn't hold the Covenant and were satan's playthings.

2. But the people of Enos' line also lost their focus and went into unbelief.
They inter-married with the unbelievers (lost the Covenant) and produced the age of Nephilim, which was a world where there were powerful leaders who were Godless.

And this is how it is today.

Of course the non-believers are dragged around by satan - and the world is a disaster zone.
But we also see that the Church has lost it's way.
It is doing many strange things, saying many strange things, is involved in unnecessary "causes," and is holding on to things other than... only Christ.
And that is REALLY satan's playground.
In short, the Church is also in disbelief.

But as always, there are those (like Noah) who do believe God. Romans 11:4. 1 Kings 19:18.
They are the Remnant and they will save the world, as Noah did.

Those who know the power of the blood Covenant and those who know the power that is Christ - who has ALL authority in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28:18.


The Ark is Christ.

It was built to avoid destruction.

It is to save those who hear and believe God's voice, as Noah did.

Noah went in and God shut Him in. Genesis 7:16
Salvation is final.

All not inside the Ark were destroyed - and they chose not to repent until the end. Genesis 7:9-10

Noah's flood is an example of hell.

[Felix]

Myself, I believe it was a real event, and Jesus spoke of it as real. Matthew 24:37-39

of course you do......



it's perfectly reasonable to assume noah could stuff a boat with some where between 4 and 8 million species, including food....perfectly reasonable.....

And I can counter with link after link demonstrating the opposite.

uh, no you can't....you can post all of the links from apologetic websites you want, but the fact is you can't overcome the simple physics of it....why do you think the whole noah's ark story is taught only to children? because it's so fatuous that no rational thinking adult can believe it....

well, except for you tart....

[Van]

I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable explanation of...ummm...

1. How flightless fowl managed to travel to the Middle East from Antarctica.

2. Ditto, tree sloths from Central America.

3. And bison from North America.

4. Pre-electricity, how were animals with such disparate living-temperature/feeding requirements as rattlesnakes and polar bears safely cared for aboard the ark?

[poptart]

I would have an answer for every question you, Felix, or anyone else would ask about the flood incident.

You would not like the answers and would undoubtedly follow up with new questions (or just mocking) resulting from the answers you were given.

It doesn't matter anyway.

The incident occurred thousands of years ago and now it is the spiritual message which is important.

As I said, belief in the flood is not a requirement for salvation.

[Van]

Maybe not, but it is a strong indicator that both oars aren't in the water.

[Felix]

I would have an answer for every question you, Felix, or anyone else would ask about the flood incident.

You would not like the answers and would undoubtedly follow up with new questions (or just mocking) resulting from the answers you were given.

if any of your answers contained something equivalent to "because that's just the way god did it" then you're right, I wouldn't like your answers.....look I'm not mocking you, but I think christians would be better off just going with the "bible as allegory" in the instance of this particular story because there is no physical evidence that a world wide flood took place....there is no reasonable explanation as to where all of the water necessary to flood the entire planet came from and where it went when it receded.....

It doesn't matter anyway.

The incident occurred thousands of years ago and now it is the spiritual message which is important.

As I said, belief in the flood is not a requirement for salvation.

it may not be important to christians, but it smacks to credibility....people living to over 900 years of age? noah was reportedly about 600 years old when they began construction of this gigantic boat and once the flood was over, lived another 350 years?

it's easy to simply say something like "it doesn't matter", but when we're regaled with story after story that necessitates a suspension of laws of nature, the veracity of entire contents of the book then come into question.....so you might not think it's important, but others do....

[poptart]

it's easy to simply say something like "it doesn't matter", but when we're regaled with story after story that necessitates a suspension of laws of nature, the veracity of entire contents of the book then come into question.....so you might not think it's important, but others do....

The "laws of nature" you're trying to assign are actually...THE LAWS OF FELIX' ASSUMPTIONS.

But go with 'em, if that's how you want to roll.

You've got a lot of company.


No, it really matters not.

Just assume that Moses was writing allegorically, then.
The spiritual message is the same either way.

The Bible is not one book, anyway.

Sixty six different ones, with Moses being just one author.

[Felix]

The "laws of nature" you're trying to assign are actually...THE LAWS OF FELIX' ASSUMPTIONS.

I don't assume anything....laws of nature are what we can observe, test, etc.
miracles/global floods assume a suspension of natural laws.....to the best of my recollection, there hasn't been an observed and scientifically documented suspension of natural law since....ever

[Van]

Kinda highly doubt that Moses authored any books of the Bible.

He was kickass, though, and he did lead his people to the Promised Land...

[Python]

I believe it's all explained in Genesis fo: fo, fo.

[Van]

That's literally how I googled the pic: "Moses Malone fo, fo, fo."

[Felix]

I believe it's all explained in Genesis fo: fo, fo.

well if it's explained in genesis, then it must be true.....

[Python]

Felix, it was a joke. Get it? Genesis chapter fo, verses fo and fo. Nevermind.

I think you need a break from posting. You're way to angry about religion.

[Felix]

Felix, it was a joke. Get it? Genesis chapter fo, verses fo and fo. Nevermind.

sorry, I don't get it

I think you need a break from posting. You're way to angry about religion.

why would you think I'm angry about religion? I really don't care that much about it in all honesty....but I do enjoy engaging faceless people on the interwebs....gives me kind of a sounding board without repercussions....

I've got a pretty good golfing bud that is much like tart....we don't normally talk about his religious beliefs and he respects my feelings most of the time....I don't like to talk about religion with him because it usually ends up with him mad at me because I just can't see the light.....

mark and his wife came over for dinner a couple of weeks back and for some reason he decided this was the night he wanted to talk about it....I tried to dissuade him from it repeatedly but for some reason he insisted....I said I would IF he would agree to some basic ground rules, the most important being he wouldn't get mad.....

for the next three hours he was essentially trying to witness to me and I pretty much didn't say much other than things like "I'm glad you've found what makes you happy Mark, but it's just not for me"....then he began down the path of a series of fallacious arguments that were never going to work....

first it was the "appeal to authority"

"Issac Newton believed in god. Do you think you're smarter than Issac Newton"? Of course the response to this is "if Issac Newton had the information available to us, I doubt seriously he'd have believed in the god of the bible"....

failing that, he then turned to the tried and completely ignorant "argument from ignorance"...assuming something is true because it hasn't been proven false....my response to that is that the flying spaghetti monster must be true, because it hasn't been proven he doesn't exist....same with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy....he accused me of being ridiculous...I asked him to prove the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist to which he mumbled something unintelligible then began down the

"Appeal to Consequences", which tart is notoriously guilty of...after going yard on that one, he then began a series of appeals to emotion, of which there are several subcategories: fear, pity, ridicule....when I dismissed these rather easily, I could see he was getting pissed because he was frustrated....that's when I pointed out that we'd agreed not to get upset, and that's when I ended the conversation....

religion is a very personal thing, and I fully respect that....but it's just not a conversation that friends (if they want to remain friends) should have unless they're willing to listen to the other side...my christian friends don't, that's why I don't typically engage them.....

[Van]

Felix, long story short...

Moses Malone was the star center for the '83 Sixers, who were clearly the dominant team that year. In addition to being one of the best players in the league, Moses was about as mushmouthed as they come. Listening to him speak was just painful. So, when asked by a reporter for his thoughts on the upcoming playoffs, his famous prediction was "Fo, fo, fo," meaning the Sixers would win the title via three consecutive four-game sweeps.

As it turned out, he was off by one game, making it "fo, fi, fo." They swept the Knicks in the first series but Milwaukee extended them to five games in the Eastern Conference Finals before bowing out. They then went on to annhilate the Magic Johnson/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Lakers in "fo" straight to claim the NBA title—the only one Julius Erving and Moses Malone ever won, which was also the last championship for the Sixers franchise.

[Felix]

Felix, long story short...

Moses Malone was the star center for the '83 Sixers, who were clearly the dominant team that year. In addition to being one of the best players in the league, Moses was about as mushmouthed as they come. Listening to him speak was just painful. So, when asked by a reporter for his thoughts on the upcoming playoffs, his famous prediction was "Fo, fo, fo," meaning the Sixers would win the title via three consecutive four-game sweeps.

As it turned out, he was off by one game, making it "fo, fi, fo." They swept the Knicks in the first series but Milwaukee extended them to five games in the Eastern Conference Finals before bowing out. They then went on to annhilate the Magic Johnson/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Lakers in "fo" straight to claim the NBA title—the only one Julius Erving and Moses Malone ever won, which was also the last championship for the Sixers franchise.

now it makes sense, and now Python's reply is funny......

[Python]

Good grief, Felix. For someone who doesn't care, you sure get all twisted up about religion. Like I said, you need a break.

[Felix]

Good grief, Felix. For someone who doesn't care, you sure get all twisted up about religion. Like I said, you need a break.

lighten up francis....

"this is fun...we're having fun goddamit"

[mvscal]

I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable explanation of...ummm...

1. How flightless fowl managed to travel to the Middle East from Antarctica.

2. Ditto, tree sloths from Central America.

3. And bison from North America.

4. Pre-electricity, how were animals with such disparate living-temperature/feeding requirements as rattlesnakes and polar bears safely cared for aboard the ark?

Why does it have to be a global event?

[Van]

Because the guest list supposedly included mating pairs of every animal species on Earth. Anything or anybody that didn't have a ticket for that ark was toast. So, since penguins, tree sloths and bison have existed for buttloads of millenia, as have rattlesnakes and polar bears, I'm going to have to assume that they were also kickin' it big style aboard pop's HMS Seas of Whimsy.

Seems reasonable, no?

[smackaholic]

Because the guest list supposedly included mating pairs of every animal species on Earth. Anything or anybody that didn't have a ticket for that ark was toast. So, since penguins, tree sloths and bison have existed for buttloads of millenia, as have rattlesnakes and polar bears, I'm going to have to assume that they were also kickin' it big style aboard pop's HMS Seas of Whimsy.

Seems reasonable, no?

Van, I would think that just about every species on earf could survive a stretch at room temp, say 65 degrees or so. Some would be uncomfortable, but, that's kinda how G rolls anyway.

Kinda like flying coach nowadays. Well, maybe not that bad.

[Van]

smackie, how would they attempt the trip to the Middle East, much less survive it? Then, once there, how would they survive the lack of food?

[Felix]

Van, I would think that just about every species on earf could survive a stretch at room temp, say 65 degrees or so. Some would be uncomfortable, but, that's kinda how G rolls anyway.

ants and bees can't survive absent a colony...cave dwelling animals require high humidity and would have died relatively quickly in the desert...certain herbivores will only eat fresh food and absent that, their central systems will begin to malfunction in short order....there are certain animals that dine exclusively on a single plant type....many snakes will only eat live prey....high humidity (from poor ventilation) would have created the perfect breeding ground for fungus which would have destroyed any stored foods in a short period of time....not to mention that such conditions are perfect for the formation of black mold, which is lethal to animals and humans....

but the problems would have really started after all the animals were released from the ark...there's no vegetation so all of the herbivores will die relatively quickly....there are no prey animals for the carnivores to hunt, so they'd be reduced to either killing their weaker shipmates, or die....the list goes on and on

seriously, I can't fathom how any thinking adult with reasonable intelligence could believe this sort of nonsense....

[mvscal]

Because the guest list supposedly included mating pairs of every animal species on Earth. Anything or anybody that didn't have a ticket for that ark was toast. So, since penguins, tree sloths and bison have existed for buttloads of millenia, as have rattlesnakes and polar bears, I'm going to have to assume that they were also kickin' it big style aboard pop's HMS Seas of Whimsy.

Seems reasonable, no?

Anyone taking a literal or even an anti-literal position on any mythology is an idiot. You can't simply dismiss mythology out of hand, though. Often enough there is some small kernel of truth at the bottom of these myths or parables.

The event could have been as simple as Noah, being an intelligent and resourceful fellow, noted the drastically heavier than usual rainfall and surmised that he was going to get washed out so he began work on a raft or boat and managed to safely evacuate himself, his family, his seed stock and breeding pairs of his animals.

Needless to say, most people aren't intelligent and resourceful so most all of his neighbors drowned or starved when their livelihood washed away. All except for Noah and his kin. They hit the beach running and prospered. Now stupid people tend to get very uncomfortable when they examine the real reasons why others are more prosperous than they are. They begin to rationalize.

So of course Noah must have been "divinely inspired" to have taken the necessary precautions to evacuate his farm. It couldn't possibly be anything so simple as he was smart, they weren't and stupid hurt a lot more back in those days. Still, the lesson of preserving the fundamentals of one's survival is good info to hand down to future generations and that's how myth becomes a fossilized impression of truth.

[Van]

I kept waiting for the punchline, and it never came. Damn it.

[Felix]

Anyone taking a literal or even an anti-literal position on any mythology is an idiot. You can't simply dismiss mythology out of hand, though. Often enough there is some small kernel of truth at the bottom of these myths or parables.

The event could have been as simple as Noah, being an intelligent and resourceful fellow, noted the drastically heavier than usual rainfall and surmised that he was going to get washed out so he began work on a raft or boat and managed to safely evacuate himself, his family, his seed stock and breeding pairs of his animals.

sounds perfectly reasonable, but as any salesperson knows you sell the sizzle not the steak....a story of some cat building a boat and throwing some farm animals into it just doesn't have the sizzle.....hence, such a story would have to be embellished and magnified to give it that "divine" feel......