(m) I've never been one to blame the officials for a loss...

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:04 pm

(Although I love that the TD is called by an official whose view of the play is clearly blocked by a WR, DB, and Lineman. That was so fucking abritrary it makes me sick.)

This seems to be a huge deal for you guys. But if the two officials standing on either goal line don't make this call, who do you think should make it? Someone standing in the endzone? The Referee who is 10-12 yards behind the play? The fact is one of the two officials on the goal line have to make a call. Yes, they get blocked in their line of site but they adjust and make the call. So, if you are so worried about this official who is blocked out making the call, please tell me who should have made the call.

War Stoops,

I don't see any evidence that the Tech receiver didn't have possession until after he hit the ground. I saw a dual possession catch with progress awarded at the spot of the catch. Further in the clip I see #84 OU pulling the receiver backwards after he was clearly on the ground. As BtH has also pointed out the first official was merely signaling possession. The HL and LJ are marking the forward progress and both have him at the same spot which was the spot of the catch. Oh, and that yellow line that fox draws across the field doesn't mean squat. Hell, even looking at the chains doesn't mean anything. Often the chains move a couple of feet during plays as the chain gang dances with coaches and players.

The Fox shots are totally useless in determining if he is in. The clip I posted earlier as I said was inconclusive.

Suncoast,

My head is nowhere near my ass. Hell, I even stated that I wanted OU to win and was rooting for them. But that doesn't mean you over look what is in front of you. I don't always support the officials either. I went so far as to get the tape of an earlier OU game to look at a play for BtH and in my opinion I thought those officials were wrong. Then on this very board after Jimmy and others posted video and pics I changed my original thought when seeing it live.

And where do you get that Tech is the most prolific offense in the country? Not in total yards nor in scoring. Those two belong to USC and Texas.

Danny,

You know I respect you and still do, but going around saying OU won is Jonesse.

War Stoops · Post by **War Stoops** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:32 pm

Lefty:

To me, it seems obvious that Darrien Williams of OU is the first to have possession of the ball, which is then taken away from him on the way down. I'm not using the yellow line or the chains, I'm using the orange marker on the ground, which doesn't move during play. I know it's not exact but it didn't have to be on that play, as the ball never got close to it. How anyone on planet earth can watch that and say it was a good spot is beyond me.

As for the TD, I have agreed all along that it's tough to tell from the Fox angle. But the line judge flat-out guessed and, as with all the calls on that drive, he went with Tech. I might have disagreed with the call but I wouldn't have been as irate about the outcome if it had not been for the 4th down phantom spot.

If you have time, look at the other calls on the page I linked. Some of them are reaching, but I think they show a pattern of incompetence from that crew. I'd like to know which calls/non-calls you agree with and which you don't. Let me reiterate, I do not expect OU to get the decision reversed and I will not put the game in the mental win column. I just want that crew kicked in the ass or demoted to Division II where they belong. The TD call on the dropped pass is justification enough for a serious talking to.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:54 pm

War Stoops wrote:Lefty:

To me, it seems obvious that Darrien Williams of OU is the first to have possession of the ball, which is then taken away from him on the way down. I'm not using the yellow line or the chains, I'm using the orange marker on the ground, which doesn't move during play. I know it's not exact but it didn't have to be on that play, as the ball never got close to it. How anyone on planet earth can watch that and say it was a good spot is beyond me.

As for the TD, I have agreed all along that it's tough to tell from the Fox angle. But the line judge flat-out guessed and, as with all the calls on that drive, he went with Tech. I might have disagreed with the call but I wouldn't have been as irate about the outcome if it had not been for the 4th down phantom spot.

If you have time, look at the other calls on the page I linked. Some of them are reaching, but I think they show a pattern of incompetence from that crew. I'd like to know which calls/non-calls you agree with and which you don't. Let me reiterate, I do not expect OU to get the decision reversed and I will not put the game in the mental win column. I just want that crew kicked in the ass or demoted to Division II where they belong. The TD call on the dropped pass is justification enough for a serious talking to.

Dana Bible and company will never be chastised for anything much less anything they do to OU or Nebraska. The crew Lubbock consisted of Dana (who we all know), a Lubbock resident, and a member of the same officiating crew that gave Mizzou 5 downs and a victory.

Sorry Lefty poor choice of words on my part. I have as much or more respect for you than any other poster around here.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:07 pm

War Stoops wrote:Lefty:

The ball carrier's ass hits the ground at about the 1.5 yard line. I agree it's hard to tell if the ball is across at that time. But let's look at this clip:

Exhibit A

From the Fox angle, we clearly see that the ball does not cross the line until after the carrier's arms "bounce" across the line. In the News 9 clip, we see that the bounce is caused by his ass hitting the ground. No touchdown. But I must concede that the review crew didn't have access to both clips so I'm willing to tolerate this missed call. (Although I love that the TD is called by an official whose view of the play is clearly blocked by a WR, DB, and Lineman. That was so fucking abritrary it makes me sick.)

Frankly, I don't much give a shit about this call because the play never shuold have happened. The spot on the 4th down was putrid, plain and simple. Lefty, you know I love you but take off your zebra-colored glasses and watch this clip.

Exhibit B

Your explanation of this call would make sense if there had not been a battle for posession of the ball. The receiver did not have posession untill he wrestled the ball away on the ground...a full yard short of the first down marker. Game over. Look at that jackass running in to signal "First Down!". He was more excited than the Tech student section. Hey dickwad, it's pretty close. Think you might want to measure?

Look, bad calls are part of football. But three bad calls on the final, game-winning drive are inexcusable. I'm not asking for an overturn, I'm just asking for justice. But that crew will be right back out there next week with no punishment for robbing a young team from it's season-defining victory.

Fuck, fuck, fuck...

I'm gonna agree with Lefty on the Exhibit B clip. Sorry, but that looked like a pretty good spot to me. What everyone seems to be focusing on, and wrongly so, is where the two came down with the ball. Posession of the ball was made while in the air, right at about the first down marker. Their momentum (or more specifically, the OU defender's momentum) carried them back a yard.

the_ouskull · Post by **the_ouskull** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:24 pm

Possession also wasn't completely established until they landed. In the air, the defender had more of the ball than the offensive player did.

Lefty:

I'll assume that you meant Jon-esque. And I won't say that Tech won and I won't say that OU lost, but I will say that OU didn't win. How's that?

the_ouskull

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:27 pm

After seeing OU fans tell USC and Auburn fans the past two years to suck it up that they were playing by the rules agreed on at the beginning of the season.

I find these meltdowns.....HILARIOUS!

Follow in your coaches footsteps and suck it up.

War Stoops · Post by **War Stoops** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:35 pm

^^^^^
Worst analogy ever.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:37 pm

I don't see how this is even surprising to anyone when considering the history most of this crew has. This is the same crew (mostly) that Gave Mizzou five downs to beat CU. It is the same crew that screwed the pooch in the '02 National Title game, two were members of the crew that called the '84 OU/Texass game.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:45 pm

War Stoops wrote:^^^^^
Worst analogy ever.

Eh...Its a strech. But I still get satisfaction from yall melting.

USC/LSU getting screwed out of playing each other because we had to see the Big XIIs second best team in the final.

USC/Auburn getting screwed out of playing each other because we had to see the two heismans play in the game of the century.

Good luck has fell on yall two much lately. You shouldnt act like little bitches because yall lost to Taco Tech on a bad call. Yall are OU. Why the fuck was Taco Tech able to win even with bad calls?

BTW, Stoops has the right idea on this whole matter.

War Stoops · Post by **War Stoops** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:57 pm

I love how coach Stoops is handling it. But I'll be damned if I'm not going to bitch for at least a day (I was in Vegas until last night) after an abomination like that.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:58 pm

War Stoops wrote:I love how coach Stoops is handling it. But I'll be damned if I'm not going to bitch for at least a day (I was in Vegas until last night) after an abomination like that.

The difference is about $10,000 between I and Bob complaining. ;)

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:04 pm

Mr T wrote:
War Stoops wrote:^^^^^
Worst analogy ever.
Eh...Its a strech. But I still get satisfaction from yall melting.

USC/LSU getting screwed out of playing each other because we had to see the Big XIIs second best team in the final.

USC/Auburn getting screwed out of playing each other because we had to see the two heismans play in the game of the century.

Good luck has fell on yall two much lately. You shouldnt act like little bitches because yall lost to Taco Tech on a bad call. Yall are OU. Why the fuck was Taco Tech able to win even with bad calls?

BTW, Stoops has the right idea on this whole matter.

what's funny, actually, is everyone non-OU fan advocating the "high-road" and "get over it" etc.

when if your team had lost a game on two consecutive apparently atrociously bad calls that would have each ended the game in your team's favor right then and there......i'm sure you'd be saying the same thing. all of you. all you highminded CFB posters. quit crying, blah blah blah....we lost. so be it.

as far as i'm concerned it happened and it was bullshit. but, there's nothing you can do. but all you other OU pilers-on are hypocrites. everyone is a "fair-player" and a Stoic when it's not YOUR team.

hell, if it happened to Bill Callahan he might have eaten out the aorta of the lead ref. and gone Jason Bateman on their families.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:57 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Mr T wrote:
War Stoops wrote:^^^^^
Worst analogy ever.
Eh...Its a strech. But I still get satisfaction from yall melting.

USC/LSU getting screwed out of playing each other because we had to see the Big XIIs second best team in the final.

USC/Auburn getting screwed out of playing each other because we had to see the two heismans play in the game of the century.

Good luck has fell on yall two much lately. You shouldnt act like little bitches because yall lost to Taco Tech on a bad call. Yall are OU. Why the fuck was Taco Tech able to win even with bad calls?

BTW, Stoops has the right idea on this whole matter.
what's funny, actually, is everyone non-OU fan advocating the "high-road" and "get over it" etc.

when if your team had lost a game on two consecutive apparently atrociously bad calls that would have each ended the game in your team's favor right then and there......i'm sure you'd be saying the same thing. all of you. all you highminded CFB posters. quit crying, blah blah blah....we lost. so be it.

as far as i'm concerned it happened and it was bullshit. but, there's nothing you can do. but all you other OU pilers-on are hypocrites. everyone is a "fair-player" and a Stoic when it's not YOUR team.

hell, if it happened to Bill Callahan he might have eaten out the aorta of the lead ref. and gone Jason Bateman on their families.

So Bill would have subjected the familes to repeated watching of Teen Wolf-2?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:01 pm

that would indeed be horrific. possibly worse than what i intended. i typo'd.

Patrick Bateman, not JB.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:18 am

War Stoops wrote:I love how coach Stoops is handling it. But I'll be damned if I'm not going to bitch for at least a day (I was in Vegas until last night) after an abomination like that.

Bitch away. Be pissed. But god damn, Posting personal info and completely melting.

Way to go RtS on him, OU fans.

Waz · Post by **Waz** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:23 am

Mr T wrote:
War Stoops wrote:I love how coach Stoops is handling it. But I'll be damned if I'm not going to bitch for at least a day (I was in Vegas until last night) after an abomination like that.
Bitch away. Be pissed. But god damn, Posting personal info and completely melting.

Way to go RtS on him, OU fans.

if I ever see that freakin ref I'm going to fight him

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:25 am

Mr T wrote:After seeing OU fans tell USC and Auburn fans the past two years to suck it up that they were playing by the rules agreed on at the beginning of the season.

I find these meltdowns.....HILARIOUS!

Follow in your coaches footsteps and suck it up.

I have to second this.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:38 am

the_ouskull wrote:
I've never been one to blame the officials for a loss before today.

the_ouskull

So were in agreement that the 84 Cotton Bowl was a Texas Win :D

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:27 pm

jon=loving this thread

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:09 pm

Vito Corleone wrote:
the_ouskull wrote:
I've never been one to blame the officials for a loss before today.

the_ouskull
So were in agreement that the 84 Cotton Bowl was a Texas Win :D

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:29 pm

Hey OU dicks. The matchup with a 7-4 Mich. squad in San Antonio will be a good one. Why you bitchin?

Basketball is upon us! :smile:

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:30 pm

How did you enjoy the PSU game, Babs?

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:31 pm

MSUFAN wrote:Hey OU dicks. The matchup with a 7-4 Mich. squad in San Antonio will be a good one. Why you bitchin?

Basketball is upon us! :smile:

Funny since you didn't show your face after the Rainbow Princesses kicked your teeth in the other night.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:35 pm

bwaaahahaha! another gutless Spartan loss. did someone have a kwamp?

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:24 pm

I just stumbled onto this thread and I find it really funny that OU fan is melting down like this. This happens to almost every team at some point in time. I'm sure you've calmed down, but you need to move on.

I can mention several calls that screwed NU over the years:

82 Penn State - TE catches ball a good yard out of bounds. First down. Then ball is trapped in end zone on pass play. Touchdown. NU loses.

94 Orange - FSU - Phantom clip on kick return nullifies a NU return for a TD. NU loses lead and eventually the game.

98 KSU - Eric Crouch pulls a Linda Blair on a fourth down play that is so obvious that the defensive player that does it is holding his head because he knows that it's a facemask flag for sure. No flag. KSU takes over.

2005 - Texas Tech - No obvious call, but NU defenders are being held every single down giving their QB tons of time to throw. Look at pics from the game. A picture in the paper shows an NU player with his jersey being pulled so far back by the Tech lineman that you can see his sholder pads while a comfy and poised Tech QB gets more time to throw. No holding calls in that game by the way.

2005 - OU - On the winning TD, at least two players are tackled from behind by OU linemen, giving your RB a nice ride to the endzone. No review because they don't review calls that could be penalties.

I was fuming after each one of these calls, but you get over it.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:53 pm

At Large wrote: 94 Orange - FSU - Neb is given every oppurtunity by the refs to win the game. Even with extra time to kick a game winning kick, NU still loses and bitches about the refs.

FTFY

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:12 pm

FYI, This was not the same crew from the OSU v Miami title game. That crew was lead by Randy Christal.

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:17 pm

Left Seater wrote:FYI, This was not the same crew from the OSU v Miami title game. That crew was lead by Randy Christal.

I believe that I saw on both insiders and soonerfans that Christal was a part of this crew Saturday. It was also in two different articles (one out of Texass) that officials on the crew were key components of the '02 Fiesta Bowl.

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:04 pm

Speaking of refs trying to hand a game to a team, this is a basketball example, but I believe it was the last year of the Big 8 and Missouri was going for an undefeated conference record, which I don't think had ever been done. Nebraska (with an actual talented team for once) goes down there on their second to last game and has them on the ropes. Then with about 2 minutes left, the refs pull one of the most blatant fix jobs with so many NU muggings at the hands of Missouri players not called. One player was near the sideline with the ball when the MU player literally shoves him out of bounds. Refs call MU's ball. It was unbelievable.

Whether or not they get caught in the moment or secretly root for a team to win, it still isn't right.

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:06 pm

Mr T wrote:
At Large wrote: 94 Orange - FSU - Neb is given every oppurtunity by the refs to win the game. Even with extra time to kick a game winning kick, NU still loses and bitches about the refs.
FTFY

Oh so funny...

You mean the same game where the refs were yelling at our players to stop hitting their precious Charlie Ward after every play? Or the play on the goal line where FSU clearly fumbles, but is awarded the touchdown?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:11 pm

At Large wrote: Then with about 2 minutes left, the refs pull one of the most blatant fix jobs with so many NU muggings at the hands of Missouri players not called. One player was near the sideline with the ball when the MU player literally shoves him out of bounds. Refs call MU's ball. It was unbelievable.

dude, that's pretty much every MU game at Hearnes (or Kemper in the Big 8 conference tournament) under Norm Stewart. there used to always be a "buzz" about all these "miracle runs" Norm's teams' would have in the conference tournament.......except for playing KU, it was a home court and Norm's teams were Thug 4 Life. One Big 8 ref, Jim Bain, was Norm's fishing buddy.

man, i miss those Big 8 hoops home-home's.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:31 pm

Nebraska got homered in '82 at the Beav - I fully admit that. Adding to your list, though...Gill fumbled a ball that was recovered by PSU on their last TD drive. The officials said he was down - which was as egregious as either of the other calls that went PSU's way.

I went 15 rounds with the good folks at Huskerpedia on this in '02, they vehemently denied it for the most part, but a few folks agreed. Of course, you'll find plenty of PSU fans who will agrue to the death that McCloskey was in bounds on that catch. I'll always remember the following year, for the inaugural Kickoff Classic at Giant Stadium...the NU fans had t-shirts that showed the Beaver Stadium playing field with an extra rectangle added where he made the catch.

Didn't the Husker RB coach try to put his chair through the press box window after Bowman's catch? Brad, maybe?

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:11 pm

Even though we gave up a 4th and 14 at home to a Chris Rix led FSU team, then a few plays later gave up a 52 yard bomb for a touchdown to the same C.R., the refs screwed us and we count that game as a win.

sincerely, 2003 Gators

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:55 pm

King Crimson wrote:that would indeed be horrific. possibly worse than what i intended. i typo'd.

Patrick Bateman, not JB.

I figured as much but I had to be a smartass, American Psycho ruled. It was the only book that ever made me flinch while reading it. The movie was pretty good as well, too bad it couldn't be more like the book without getting the kiss-of-death NC-17 rating.

As far as bad officiating goes the "miracle in Missouri" qualifies. Our guy did blatantly kick the ball in the air to keep it alive. Of course the refs never flagged the cavalcade of muggings our players endured that game so flagging us would have been pure hypocrisy. At least they extended the "let 'em play" to both sides.

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:20 pm

What about Missouri officials (not the refs) watering the field for hours and hours before the game to make the field slow? Anyone else find it funny that the sprinklers turned on after the overtime was over in that game? I'm not sure if there's any rule on it, but our players from that game still talk about how wet the field was.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:17 pm

Suncoast,

I guess I got confused by earlier posts in this thread speaking about Dana Bible. A relative of his is a ref in the Big XII and I thought that because of the discussion with his name it was his crew. If it wasn't and I missed something, my bad.

I will say that Randy Christal's crew has been the top crew in college football for a number of the past years. Had OU not been playing for the title as often as they had, Randy's group would have called more title games. But officials from one conference can't officiate their "own" teams in bowls.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:57 am

At Large wrote: One player was near the sideline with the ball when the MU player literally shoves him out of bounds. Refs call MU's ball. It was unbelievable.

I don't remember the game to which you're referring, but I just had a Jason Thuggerland flashback. I bet anything he was responsible for the shove.

WAR diving at an opponent's knees when you're pretending to save a ball out of bounds.

Man, I miss when Missouri was actually relevant in basketball. :cry:

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:51 pm

Left Seater wrote:Suncoast,

I guess I got confused by earlier posts in this thread speaking about Dana Bible. A relative of his is a ref in the Big XII and I thought that because of the discussion with his name it was his crew. If it wasn't and I missed something, my bad.

I will say that Randy Christal's crew has been the top crew in college football for a number of the past years. Had OU not been playing for the title as often as they had, Randy's group would have called more title games. But officials from one conference can't officiate their "own" teams in bowls.

John Bible ;)... I confuse the two often. I type Dana when I mean John very often.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:06 pm

I thought Christal's crew was pretty good today. There were some borderline calls/non-calls, but they were called the same for everyone.

T1B

(m) I've never been one to blame the officials for a loss...

Re: (m) I've never been one to blame the officials for a los

Re: (m) I've never been one to blame the officials for a los