Catholic History

[Y2K]

Hmmmmm

How about this PSU and this isn't imagined.

Priest meets Mrs Y and Y at a local charity event.

Priest: I haven't seen you in many years Mrs. Y are you still a member of the church.

Mrs Y: I attend a different church now, very open and Non- Denominational.

Priest: What can I do to get you to rejoin our parish?

Mrs Y: I will never come back to any organized religion that could stand idly by like ours did as peoples lives were torn to shreds. Young, innocent and vulnerable people were preyed upon by garbage disquised as teachers of the word and people KNEW what was happening and did nothing, how could this happen? it's absolutely sickening, at least I know that where I worship now nobody has a free pass to be an ungodly animal for years on end because of a pathetic secret club using our God as a ruse to be satan's best friend.

Priest: I'm sorry you see it that way, they were sick and need forgiveness and help.

Mrs Y: What they need is a lethal injection father and they should make the "silent" enablers insert the poison and watch them die like they did those kids.

Priest walked away without saying another word.
Rack Mrs Y. that was absolute $.

[PSUFAN]

Yep. Rack Mrs. Y in the strongest possible terms.

[Tom In VA]

I'm confused...do you really claim that the Catholic Church hasn't covered the tracks of their peds?

Or, are you saying that you're OK with it? Because I'm not ok with that, coming from the organization that sells itself as the Divine Instrument of God on Earth, Tom. That's what I was getting at before...Divine Right isn't some minor sidebar with the Catholic Church, in case that comes as news to you. Either they are immune from Human Frailties, or they are a fraud.

Don't be confused, you made a statement, I'm asking you to back it up with what you stated you could provide. Then I'll be able to move on.

"I can definitely name a few that don't cover the track of their pedophiles, for starters"

You said "for starters", so I'm waiting to begin, with the "few".

[PSUFAN]

Tom...how many organizations have covered the tracks of pedophiles in their ranks?

[Tom In VA]

Tom...how many organizations have covered the tracks of pedophiles in their ranks?

I don't know how many. I know of one in particular but to say that it is the only one, is not a statement I'm willing to make, I believe I'd be inaccurate.

[PSUFAN]

The simple fact is this: there is NO organization that has institutionally covered the tracks of known pedophiles in their ranks - EXCEPT the Catholic Church. There is no organization on Earth that could survive the backlash. I honestly don't know how the Catholic Church has managed to do it - I can only think that people haven't offered their disgust for that unconditionally enough.

As much as I decry the institutional abuse of the Catholic Church, it should be decried infinitely more. If that means making a few Catholics uncomfortable in conversation, then I'd call that an acceptable cost.

[Tom In VA]

Why are you playing apologist for pedophile freaks?

What the hell is wrong with you?

Facts.

1. Not all Catholics, not all priests are pedophiles.
2. I'm not playing apologist, I'm engaging in discussion.
3. What's wrong with me ? Bored, can't focus, having a good time on T1B. How are you ?

[Tom In VA]

The simple fact is this: there is NO organization that has institutionally covered the tracks of known pedophiles in their ranks - EXCEPT the Catholic Church. There is no organization on Earth that could survive the backlash. I honestly don't know how the Catholic Church has managed to do it - I can only think that people haven't offered their disgust for that unconditionally enough.

As much as I decry the institutional abuse of the Catholic Church, it should be decried infinitely more. If that means making a few Catholics uncomfortable in conversation, then I'd call that an acceptable cost.

So you're going to bring the entire Catholic Church down, one Catholic at a time. You're going to do this, because, they've covered the tracks of pedophiles in their ranks.

Just sounds a bit Quixotic. Noble, but Quixotic. Unless you've put together an organization to do this, have you ?

[jiminphilly]

I honestly don't know how the Catholic Church has managed to do it

Considering the Catholic Church is as much a political organization as it is a religious one, it should be fairly obvious why it has been able to weather this storm.

[PSUFAN]

For me, there is no room for equivocation on this one. I cannot gloss over an organization's history of covering up pedophilia.

It has nothing to do with the fact that not all priests are peds. Yes, thank God, that IS a fact.

An organization that has EVER covered up for pedophilia is a tainted organization. Anything less is dangerous equivocation.

An organization that supposes to speak MORALLY for parishoners finds it difficult to come out against pedophilia? That's one fucked-up organization, my friend.

[PSUFAN]

Unless you've put together an organization to do this, have you ?

Why bother? Pedophilia is a crime in America, and Ireland, and most other nations where the Catholic Church sets up shop. Why not enforce existing law, as they say? Why is it necessary for some special consideration if you want to denounce a corrupt organization?

Common decency should be your guide here, Tom. Like mvscal, I'm wondering where you find the wiggle room on this one. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[Tom In VA]

For me, there is no room for equivocation on this one. I cannot gloss over an organization's history of covering up pedophilia.

It has nothing to do with the fact that not all priests are peds. Yes, thank God, that IS a fact.

An organization that has EVER covered up for pedophilia is a tainted organization. Anything less is dangerous equivocation.

An organization that supposes to speak MORALLY for parishoners finds it difficult to come out against pedophilia? That's one fucked-up organization, my friend.

AND

Unless you've put together an organization to do this, have you ?

Why bother? Pedophilia is a crime in America, and Ireland, and most other nations where the Catholic Church sets up shop. Why not enforce existing law, as they say? Why is it necessary for some special consideration if you want to denounce a corrupt organization?

Common decency should be your guide here, Tom. Like mvscal, I'm wondering where you find the wiggle room on this one. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

No argument here. But I'm still not sold that the Catholic Church is ONLY organization. That's all.

Like I said, I don't even practice anymore. So it's been fun. Still wish you could have come through with the actual names of better Christian organizations, who knows, maybe I'd like to support them.

Set up a paypal account, I'd like to donate to your cause.

[PSUFAN]

You want to hear about better Christian organizations? How about almost all of them?

In fact, how about this as a diving board?

http://www.google.com/search?q=quaker+church

[Tom In VA]

Well thanks PSUFAN, I appreciate it.

[Terry in Crapchester]

You want to hear about better Christian organizations? How about almost all of them?

You'll find both good and bad in almost every religious organization. I suppose that in the end, it's a matter of what you consider most important.

In fact, how about this as a diving board?

http://www.google.com/search?q=quaker+church

Nixon was a Quaker, too. Of course, I'm not saying all Quakers are like Nixon. But it seems to me that your diatribe against the Church is attempting to paint all Catholics with the same brush. I could be wrong about that, but that's the way it comes across to me.

[PSUFAN]

But it seems to me that your diatribe against the Church is attempting to paint all Catholics with the same brush. I could be wrong about that, but that's the way it comes across to me.

My target is not Catholics. My target is the corrupt and reprehensibe Catholic Church - the organization.

My question to Catholics is...how can you stand to be associated with this?

[Tom In VA]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... t-opinions


:?

[Terry in Crapchester]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... t-opinions


:?

From that article . . .

Perhaps more troubling for conservatives should be the pope's tolerance of the behavior of the Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Angelo Sodano. Six years ago, Sodano persuaded Ratzinger to halt a canon law case seeking the excommunication of a friend of his, an alleged pedophile, Father Marcial Maciel, founder of the Legion of Christ order in Mexico.

Perhaps??? :? There's no "perhaps" about it. I'm surprised the LA Times would have published something like this.

[Terry in Crapchester]

So, Terry, how many altar boys do you suppose the new Pope has buttfucked? 50? 60?

Let's go back to this:

Facts.

1. Not all Catholics, not all priests are pedophiles.

AFAIK, nobody has ever leveled these allegations against Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI). And without a doubt, some of the allegations have been wrong. Remember Cardinal Bernardin? The same allegations were also leveled against a priest at my parish when I was a kid. I was an altar boy, was alone with him on many occasions, and he never laid a hand on me, nor did I ever feel uncomfortable around him. Of course, that doesn't prove that the allegations against him were false, and in fairness, I should note that it was a woman who made the accusations against him. But I tend not to believe them in this particular case, based on my own experience.

Like Bernardin, he died not long after the allegations were made.

[mothster]

politics, let me tell ya 'bout politics--------

roger mahoney

[jiminphilly]

But it seems to me that your diatribe against the Church is attempting to paint all Catholics with the same brush. I could be wrong about that, but that's the way it comes across to me.

My target is not Catholics. My target is the corrupt and reprehensibe Catholic Church - the organization.

My question to Catholics is...how can you stand to be associated with this?

Because American catholics have moved past the era of idolizing and revering the priests like was done in the past. I think a lot of Catholics have come to the conclusion that the institution that is the church is no longer infalliable. Look at the issues that American catholics are at odds with the Vatican - birth control, women priests and even abortion. 50 years ago it was taboo to even THINK about being at odds with the church on these issues but demographics are changing. Parishes are now run by lay persons and less by priests.

What you are seeing is a move away from the traditional catholic church hierarchy that is most commonly thought of. American catholics feel a greater control over their own parish than they have in the past so they not exactly feel like they are associated with the men who are committing the crimes and because they are in disagreement with the Church on other issues I mentioned, they may not feel they are part of the institution of the catholic church that has been hiding and covering up peds for so long.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

AFAIK, nobody has ever leveled these allegations against Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI).

Surprising, considering he was JP II's "enforcer".

[Goober McTuber]

So, Terry, how many altar boys do you suppose the new Pope has buttfucked? 50? 60?

Let's go back to this:

Facts.

1. Not all Catholics, not all priests are pedophiles.

AFAIK, nobody has ever leveled these allegations against Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI). And without a doubt, some of the allegations have been wrong. Remember Cardinal Bernardin? The same allegations were also leveled against a priest at my parish when I was a kid. I was an altar boy, was alone with him on many occasions, and he never laid a hand on me, nor did I ever feel uncomfortable around him.

Maybe you were just an ugly child.

[War Wagon]

But it seems to me that your diatribe against the Church is attempting to paint all Catholics with the same brush. I could be wrong about that, but that's the way it comes across to me.

My target is not Catholics. My target is the corrupt and reprehensibe Catholic Church - the organization.

My question to Catholics is...how can you stand to be associated with this?

I'd be a Catholic... if I knew it pissed you off.

I'd smoke cigarettes...just to blow smoke in your face and watch you writhe in indignant agony.

Fucking little Ms. Perfect can't be wrong, let him without sin cast the first stone...

Go change your underwear. Bitch.

[PSUFAN]

The supply of indignant Catholics is never-ending, I guess...War Wagon, don't let something like "making sense" stand in your way.

I think a lot of Catholics have come to the conclusion that the institution that is the church is no longer infalliable.

Is that so? So what's the next step...mouthing platitudes like, "we're moving away from the Church", all the while still postmarking contributions to Rome?

Little steps, eh?

[jiminphilly]

Is that so? So what's the next step...mouthing platitudes like, "we're moving away from the Church", all the while still postmarking contributions to Rome?

Those sunday contributions never make their way to Rome. Those collections are what keeps the parishes in business. (including tuition assistance to high school kids, social programs run by lay people of the parish as well as the daily expenses of running the church and school etc..) It's really no surprise that inner city catholic schools are closing since they have no money coming in through the collection basket to sustain the costs of operating a church and school. Within the past few years the Archdiocese of Philadelphia started a parish adoption program where some of the more wealthy parishes ask their parisoners to donate more in their envelopes and a portion is to go towards a 'sister' parish in some of the poor sections of the city so they can continue to operate.

If the Archdiocese wasn't paying out so much money in legal fees to defend and protect the peds they might have some cash laying around to go towards the poor parishes that are closing.

I don't fault anyone that still goes to church on sunday to practice their faith. My wife and I still take the kids on occasion, but we don't contribute to the sunday collection (it's not like the parish needs it anyway) or any other special collection that is made (like the one for 'sick priests') because we know where the money goes.

[Tom In VA]

Thanks for all your takes jiminphilly.

This thread has actually inspired me to return to the church of my youth. Thanks PSUFAN. While I agree with your sentiment, the only way to fix something, is from within.

Good thread.

[BSmack]

This thread has actually inspired me to return to the church of my youth. Thanks PSUFAN. While I agree with your sentiment, the only way to fix something, is from within.

Do you feel the same way about the Pentagon?

[Tom In VA]

This thread has actually inspired me to return to the church of my youth. Thanks PSUFAN. While I agree with your sentiment, the only way to fix something, is from within.

Do you feel the same way about the Pentagon?

Interesting discussion, but not in this thread. Unless you're making allegations that the Pentagon is spending billions of dollars to cover up homosexual pedophilia within the ranks, which worked for the Spartans BTW,

[rozy]

The supply of indignant Catholics is never-ending, I guess...War Wagon, don't let something like "making sense" stand in your way.

I think a lot of Catholics have come to the conclusion that the institution that is the church is no longer infalliable.

Is that so? So what's the next step...mouthing platitudes like, "we're moving away from the Church", all the while still postmarking contributions to Rome?

Little steps, eh?

I'm still trying to figger out when a church WAS infallible.
But then again, 70-80% of Catholicism disgusts me anyhoo.

[War Wagon]

Thanks for all your takes jiminphilly.

His wife told him to say that...nah, Jim gets a RACK from me as well.

This thread has actually inspired me to return to the church of my youth.

Silver linings, then. Sounds like you've made a decision.

It's said that you should raise up a child in this way, and he won't depart from it.

Don't know if that's true or not. Maybe "depart" is the wrong word.

Rack the homecoming, nonetheless.

As for you Psufan, a little less judgementalism might be in order.