Heisman ???

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:03 pm

Adelpiero wrote:if garrett wolfe isnt in ny for the ceremony, the award is a scam.

He would never see the field at a place like Auburn or LSU.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:46 pm

Degenerate wrote:
Adelpiero wrote:if garrett wolfe isnt in ny for the ceremony, the award is a scam.

He would never see the field at a place like Auburn or LSU.

That is a bunch of crap. If he had a o-line up to par w/ Auburn or LSU he would run away w/ the heisman. However, he doesn't and his teams has two losses, he is out of the race.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:01 pm

Sky wrote:
Degenerate wrote:
Adelpiero wrote:if garrett wolfe isnt in ny for the ceremony, the award is a scam.

He would never see the field at a place like Auburn or LSU.
That is a bunch of crap. If he had a o-line up to par w/ Auburn or LSU he would run away w/ the heisman. However, he doesn't and his teams has two losses, he is out of the race.

Well, he was 5th string before some injuries. Plus, I doubt a major school would touch a RB that was generously listed at 5'7".

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:10 pm

Killian wrote:
Sky wrote:
Adelpiero wrote:if garrett wolfe isnt in ny for the ceremony, the award is a scam.
What are you talking about? His team is 2-2 right now. When is the last time a team w/ two losses had a player win the Heisman?
I can remember when the Heisman rarely went to a player on the best team.

If Barry Sanders had his 1988 season this year, do you think he would win the award?

No, but he should.

It has gone from best player in CFB to the best player on the best team.

Agreed. I do remember Randy Moss getting the invite to New York out of Marshall. But even that was nearly a decade ago, and that's the most recent example I can think of, off the top of my head.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:13 pm

OK, good point. I should have put more into that statment. NIU is 2-2 right now (.500) and based on their hot and cold play, they will probably end up losing 4 or 5 games. So depite being the leading rusher by almost 200 yds and top 3 in scoring, he wont make it in because of the record. He didn't carry his team to wins and he didn't have the big upset a small school player needs to make it to Times Square.

Still, your point of four winners w/ two losses is almost moot because 3 or the four were top tier programs with only one loss at the time. Palmer being the only exception. Maybe, this year, AD, Tror or Quinn could win w/ two losses but that would take a lot of help from other teams. Certainly GWolfe is not in the hunt, at all.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:22 pm

Sky,

1996. Iowa State went 2-9.

Troy Davis damn near won the Heisman

Place Name School Class Position 1 2 3 Total
1st Danny Wuerffel Florida Sr. QB 300 158 147 1,363
2nd Troy Davis Iowa State Jr. RB 209 206 135 1,174
3rd Jake Plummer Arizona State Sr. QB 116 113 111 685
4th Orlando Pace Ohio State Jr. OT 87 101 136 599
5th Warrick Dunn Florida State Sr. RB 40 76 69 341
6th Byron Hanspard Texas Tech Jr. RB 15 68 70 251
7th Darnell Autry Northwestern Jr. RB 9 19 20 85
8th Peyton Manning Tennessee Jr. QB 4 23 23 81
9th Marcus Harris Wyoming Sr. WR 7 7 18 53
10th Beau Morgan Air Force Sr. QB 3 3 11 26

1995 Iowa St. went 3-8 and he got 5th.

Place Name School Class Position 1 2 3 Total
1st Eddie George Ohio State Sr. RB 268 248 160 1,460
2nd Tommie Frazier Nebraska Sr. QB 218 192 158 1,196
3rd Danny Wuerffel Florida Jr. QB 185 152 128 987
4th Darnell Autry Northwestern So. RB 87 78 118 535
5th Troy Davis Iowa State So. RB 41 80 119 402
6th Peyton Manning Tennessee So. QB 10 21 37 109
7th Keyshawn Johnson Southern California Sr. WR 9 10 12 59
8th Tim Biakabutuka Michigan Jr. RB 1 11 6 31
9th Warrick Dunn Florida State Jr. RB 2 3 17 29
10th Bobby Hoying Ohio State Sr. QB 0 9 10 28

It CAN happen.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:56 pm

Horseshit, with today's media there is no way a small school like NIU will lose 4 games and have a Heisman trophy winner.

Pull up all the stats you want about guys who finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, whatever. None of them won it and winning is all that matters.

Look at the media orgy that was USC the last two years. Even if another player w/ 1 or 2 losses actually put up better numbers and meant more to their team, they would not have gotten the heisman. I don't think that is the way it should be, but I think thats the way it is.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:08 pm

If someone from a small school breaks the single season yardage record, I would be willing to bet they win the Heisman.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:16 pm

Even though they play against "sub par" teams?

Wolf has about 1800 yards to go...he better hope he gets that conference championship and a bowl game.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:21 pm

Believe the Heupel wrote:Sky, you're dragging out a strawman.

The initial claim was that Wolfe should be invited if he continues to put up numbers like he does.

There is no real current trend that keeps players on multiple-loss teams from being finalists. Larry Fitzgerald was a finalist and in fact there was a lot of argument that he should have won the Heisman.

Good point...nuf said.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:10 pm

Sky wrote:Even though they play against "sub par" teams?

Wolf has about 1800 yards to go...he better hope he gets that conference championship and a bowl game.

I would like to reconsider this piont based on his performance this weekend--it looks like he is well on his way.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:37 pm

Sky wrote:
Sky wrote:Even though they play against "sub par" teams?

Wolf has about 1800 yards to go...he better hope he gets that conference championship and a bowl game.
I would like to reconsider this piont based on his performance this weekend--it looks like he is well on his way.

subpar teams? he torched OSU for 200 yards of offense. torched michigane for 150yards, all on the road, and with teams loading the box up. they have no offense, but wolfe.

why hate on a guy playing his ass off, by the way, he worked his way from #9rb on team as a fresh, to starting, and finishing his career off with a bang

i will never understand why people bang on the kids on mid majors. christ, these guys work their asses off.

and fitzgerald was by far the best player in NCAA that year, he put up 100+ 1td + every game, and they had nothing but fitzgerald, he beat triple teams weekly. this guy was at times, zoned by himself, and he still got to the ball. best knack for the ball at the WR position in a long time, throw it up, he will get it somehow. and it showed in nfl, he was the best player.

the_ouskull · Post by **the_ouskull** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:34 pm

Heisman...? Reggie Bush ain't shit.

Sin,
Vince "Can't Hit A Teammate In Stride" or "Pass A 'Spell Your Name' Contest" Young

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:36 pm

A. Wolfe is a stud.

B. Who gives a fuck about the Heisman...especially the first week of Oct.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:36 pm

Adelpiero wrote:subpar teams? he torched OSU for 200 yards of offense. torched michigane for 150yards, all on the road, and with teams loading the box up. they have no offense, but wolfe.

why hate on a guy playing his ass off, by the way, he worked his way from #9rb on team as a fresh, to starting, and finishing his career off with a bang

i will never understand why people bang on the kids on mid majors. christ, these guys work their asses off.

and fitzgerald was by far the best player in NCAA that year, he put up 100+ 1td + every game, and they had nothing but fitzgerald, he beat triple teams weekly. this guy was at times, zoned by himself, and he still got to the ball. best knack for the ball at the WR position in a long time, throw it up, he will get it somehow. and it showed in nfl, he was the best player.

OK, first of all, when Wolfe played OSU it was the first game for a new D. In case you hadn't heard, we lost 9 starters. And yes he played great but torching a team implies that he is scoring touchdowns and keeping his team in the game. 31 touches, no rushing TD's and 1 receiving TD vs. tOSU. The game was never in question and there was never a real risk to giving up plays under the zone. And in case you hadn't noticed, tOSU's MO is to stop the big plays. We cover the deep threat while allowing all the little stuff to occur in front of our team. And no, we don't load up the box, but we do play a conservative D that does give up a lot of yards (ie. Cincinnati).

Your next two statments don't make a lot of sense. How is that different from what every other freshman does? Few players come in and get a starting job. A lot of them work their way up the chain by busting their ass in the weight room, practice and any game opportunities they get. Don't most players start deep on the depth chart and work their way up? We have the #1 RB recruit from this past year but he isn't starting.

Finally, I wouldn't really consider Pitt a mid-major. Especially back when Fitzgerald was there. While he deserved to be at the ceremony, I think the winning player should be on a 1-2 loss (or less) team. If you can't produce a better record than 8-5, I don't know if you are the best player in the country. Regardless of the surrounding talent, I think the Heisman winner should be a catalyst that makes his team successful all the time.

Wolfe deserves to be at the ceremony but unless they run the table and some horrible things happen with OU and tOSU, I don't think he deserves to win.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:40 pm

Sky wrote:And yes he played great but torching a team implies that he is scoring touchdowns and keeping his team in the game.

I'd say 313 yards rushing and 0 TD's is still a torching. :wink:

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:45 pm

1 Troy Smith
2 Garret Wolfe
3 Adrian Peterson
4 Mike Hart

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:04 pm

Killian wrote:I'd say 313 yards rushing and 0 TD's is still a torching. :wink:

What's 313? Not the nuber he put up against us.

But really Killian, does the number 617 mean anything? Maybe you are the expert on torching.

(And no, 617 is not the new nubmer Reggie Bush will be wearing on eye black.)

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:09 pm

1995, Tim Biakabutuka.

Yeah, that 617 sure was a bitch. Didn't cost ND a shot at the MNC, though.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:13 pm

actually I believe it was 317 yards against tOSU in 1995...that sucked...

but hey the Panthers drafted him ahead of Eddie...something I love to throw in Panther fans face now that I have been down here 8 years...

carry on...

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:29 pm

Ah whatever dude, maybe a UM fan could pull that shit but not ND.

Especially when you haven't won a Heisman since 1987 or a NC since 1988

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:37 pm

buckeye_in_sc wrote:actually I believe it was 317 yards against tOSU in 1995...that sucked...

but hey the Panthers drafted him ahead of Eddie...something I love to throw in Panther fans face now that I have been down here 8 years...

carry on...

It was 313.

And I can pull whatever I want. It was a joke, and specifically, it was used to state that there can be torchings without touchdowns being scored.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:40 pm

Did either of those teams win the game? Oh they did, huh, did Wolfe's team win?

I don't think a player can torch someone, per se, unless they win the game.

Would anyone have said Troy Smith torched UM in '04 had they not won. Or, consider OSU's offensive output vs. ND in the Fiesta Bowl, would 600+ yards matter if we had not won? I don't think so.

Fair enough Killian, I hate you. :wink: