Student Loans (and the american dream..wakey wakey...)

[Onions]

Or these stupid whores can join the Army or Navy and take advantage of existing programs in exchange for service to their country. Army (and Navy) College Fund (plus MGIB) pays out a max of 81K after a six year enlistment. A full ride ROTC scholarship is also an 8 year commitment usually 4 active, 4 inactive.

Any civilian alternative would need to be a minimum of 8 years.

my family is full of war veterans. all fucked up in the head and some dead.

no thanks, mvscal. i'd rather be in debtors prison.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Probably only if it meant wiping her $100k (and rising) off the books. Even if she got that generous gift, she went to fucking NYU and lives in SF. She'd probably go into prostitution before choosing to move to Cleveland.

That would be the equivalent of having a 25,000 a year job with room and board. It's not the gravy train, but isn't exactly the debtors prison some of the folks on this board would like to see her thrown into either.

Or these stupid whores can join the Army or Navy and take advantage of existing programs in exchange for service to their country. Army (and Navy) College Fund (plus MGIB) pays out a max of 81K after a six year enlistment. A full ride ROTC scholarship is also an 8 year commitment usually 4 active, 4 inactive.

I went through college on a NROTC scholarship. But even that didn't pay for everything. I had to get loans to pay for room and board, because even back then, grants were already being cut. But I graduated college with only about $10,000 in debt.

Law school was a different case altogether. I had to borrow a substantially greater amount than that. And that was with a partial scholarship.

My parents didn't pay a dime toward my education, except for the occasional $20 bone they threw my way, probably out of pity.

As I understand it, ROTC scholarships are capped today, so they cover even less, as a percentage of total education costs, than they did in my day.

As for my kids going to college, I'm trying to teach my kid how to kick a football. Sadly, it pays better to be a star athlete than it does to be a star student.

[mvscal]

no thanks, mvscal. i'd rather be in debtors prison.

Or we could just tell you to go fuck yourself when you walk into the bank with your hand out.

[BSmack]

Or these stupid whores can join the Army or Navy and take advantage of existing programs in exchange for service to their country. Army (and Navy) College Fund (plus MGIB) pays out a max of 81K after a six year enlistment. A full ride ROTC scholarship is also an 8 year commitment usually 4 active, 4 inactive.

Any civilian alternative would need to be a minimum of 8 years.

Wow. Talk about your false equivalency. Those military folks get the free ride AND a paycheck and vets benefits. All I was suggesting was something like a CCC camp where those desperately seeking a way out from their debt could learn a trade and serve their country for free room, board and a little pocket money.

[OCmike]

I went through college on a NROTC scholarship. But even that didn't pay for everything.

Clearly there was a communication gap. Their "everything" is books, tuition, food and housing. Your "everything" includes a subscription to "Pregnant Piss Fuckers".

[Dr_Phibes]

the hardcover edition.

[Onions]

no thanks, mvscal. i'd rather be in debtors prison.

Or we could just tell you to go fuck yourself when you walk into the bank with your hand out.

don't worry mvscal, seeing how a sizeable chunk of student loan debts will either enter delinquency or go unpaid far into the future, the moment you describe is not far away for most young americans who lack rich parents. yes, they should pay the price for being born into the lower and middle classes. it is the capitalist's way, after all.

[mvscal]

Yep. Hey the world needs ditch diggers too, you know.

[Onions]

The parents of Warren Buffett and Bill Gates must have been rich as fuck

2 examples of extreme socioeconomic mobility. countless others going in the opposite direction. can you say anecdotal evidence? i think you can. you are a lawyer, aren't you?

[mvscal]

countless others going in the opposite direction.

Despite the college degrees for which they cannot begin to pay. That is what is known as a 'clue.'

[PSUFAN]

This was an interesting piece on NPR recently:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126538348

[Onions]

i am curious, what do you think the ratio is of baby boomer offspring meeting or surpassing their parents' socioeconomic class versus those who fail to attain their parents' socioeconomic class?

1 to 2?

1 to 3?

1 to 5?

[M Club]

and a $8 an hour job would be a better alternative? the students attempted to better themselves, attended the best schools they could get into and probably lived a lower middle class existence for those 4 years. and at the end of those 4 years? no windows of opportunity. just a solid concrete wall to smack right into.

attempted to better themselves? should have joined a pottery class instead of dropping 100k on a useless gender studies degree. that cunt paid for a brand name. er, she's complaining about having to pay for a brand name. i probably learned as much about women's studies during a four-week stretch at eastern michigan university than she did at nyu, and it only cost me $1.50 x however many pitchers it took for some meth head to take off her pants.

[M Club]

Or these stupid whores can join the Army or Navy and take advantage of existing programs in exchange for service to their country. Army (and Navy) College Fund (plus MGIB) pays out a max of 81K after a six year enlistment. A full ride ROTC scholarship is also an 8 year commitment usually 4 active, 4 inactive.

Any civilian alternative would need to be a minimum of 8 years.

Wow. Talk about your false equivalency. Those military folks get the free ride AND a paycheck and vets benefits. All I was suggesting was something like a CCC camp where those desperately seeking a way out from their debt could learn a trade and serve their country for free room, board and a little pocket money.

shouldn't they have learned that trade their first time through college?

[Onions]

and a $8 an hour job would be a better alternative? the students attempted to better themselves, attended the best schools they could get into and probably lived a lower middle class existence for those 4 years. and at the end of those 4 years? no windows of opportunity. just a solid concrete wall to smack right into.

attempted to better themselves? should have joined a pottery class instead of dropping 100k on a useless gender studies degree. that cunt paid for a brand name. er, she's complaining about having to pay for a brand name. i probably learned as much about women's studies during a four-week stretch at eastern michigan university than she did at nyu, and it only cost me $1.50 x however many pitchers it took for some meth head to take off her pants.

the article was about law school graduates you goddamn fucking idiot

[M Club]

instead of that cunt moving to cleveland, why doesn't cleveland just buy her and everyone else's student debt. then when lebron leaves the entire city can collapse into a guatemalan sinkhole. no more cleveland, no more student debt, no more doss cunts in the nytimes, at least as far as student loans go.

[M Club]

and a $8 an hour job would be a better alternative? the students attempted to better themselves, attended the best schools they could get into and probably lived a lower middle class existence for those 4 years. and at the end of those 4 years? no windows of opportunity. just a solid concrete wall to smack right into.

attempted to better themselves? should have joined a pottery class instead of dropping 100k on a useless gender studies degree. that cunt paid for a brand name. er, she's complaining about having to pay for a brand name. i probably learned as much about women's studies during a four-week stretch at eastern michigan university than she did at nyu, and it only cost me $1.50 x however many pitchers it took for some meth head to take off her pants.

the article was about law school graduates you goddamn fucking idiot

oh, better yet. it takes all of four minutes to survey the job market for law grads and then compare it to the debt load necessary to join that particular rat race. -oh, $100,000 to attend a tier 3 institution? i can probably pay that back in like five years or something...

law apps should have a question about how much debt a student is going to take on to attend their school. the next question should be if they still want to come. if they say yes then their application should be denied. idiots shouldn't be allowed to study law.

[mvscal]

but sometimes being financially obligated to your own success or failure is enough motivation for them to care about their financial/employment futures.

Why screwy, you might actually make a good conservative some day once you've sprouted a hair or two.

[M Club]

and a $8 an hour job would be a better alternative? the students attempted to better themselves, attended the best schools they could get into and probably lived a lower middle class existence for those 4 years. and at the end of those 4 years? no windows of opportunity. just a solid concrete wall to smack right into.

attempted to better themselves? should have joined a pottery class instead of dropping 100k on a useless gender studies degree. that cunt paid for a brand name. er, she's complaining about having to pay for a brand name. i probably learned as much about women's studies during a four-week stretch at eastern michigan university than she did at nyu, and it only cost me $1.50 x however many pitchers it took for some meth head to take off her pants.

the article was about law school graduates you goddamn fucking idiot

also, nice pivot, vagina. what four years were you talking about? the three generally associated with law school?

[Screw_Michigan]

but sometimes being financially obligated to your own success or failure is enough motivation for them to care about their financial/employment futures.

Why screwy, you might actually make a good conservative some day once you've sprouted a hair or two.

Nah, I just see this as evidence you can't trust broads in economics and finance.

[Van]

screw, hey, lap that shit up while you can. That's as close as you or anyone else is likely ever going to get in terms of receiving a compliment - or at least the absence of an insult - from mvrickles.

[Onions]

also, nice pivot, vagina. what four years were you talking about? the three generally associated with law school?

last time i checked it was not only law grads but undergrads defaulting on student loans. your system has failed.

[M Club]

last time i checked it was not only law grads but undergrads defaulting on student loans. your system has failed.

so another pivot? you're driving drunk through this conversation.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I went through college on a NROTC scholarship. But even that didn't pay for everything.

Clearly there was a communication gap. Their "everything" is books, tuition, food and housing. Your "everything" includes a subscription to "Pregnant Piss Fuckers".

Don't know where you got your info from, but mine didn't pay for housing or food. We got tuition and books (had to turn in your books at the end of the semester and get used ones, unless the ROTC library didn't have what you needed), plus $100 a month for spending money.

[M Club]

there's definitely a problem with people being priced out of an education, which requires loans that are becoming more and more onerous, but still, 100k on pussy licking?

[Goober McTuber]

my family is full of war veterans. all fucked up in the head

Apple doesn't fall far from the tree much?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Capitalism enters it's feudal phase. Beautiful.

Enjoy your serfdom.

[Goober McTuber]

Capitalism enters it's feudal phase.

As opposed to Socialism, which has always been in its futile phase.

[indyfrisco]

I just gotta say I love the phrase "debtors prison".

It's like blaming McDonalds for getting fat on thier food.

It's like blaming casinos for losing your money.

Own your own success and failures. Don't expect the rest of us to own it for you, handwringing dipshits.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Capitalism enters it's feudal phase.

As opposed to Socialism, which has always been in its futile phase.

You're heading into an era where dynasties will be fueled by unchecked inheritance and debt will be passed down though your children and their children. Education for the rich and a steep upward curve for everyone else.
Education for the rich, regardless of intelligence or merit, just pay the tuition and it's all good.

Also, two tiers of justice. The moneyed classes and the workers.

Read Marx.

[indyfrisco]

The moneyed classes and the workers.

Funny...I find that the ones who work have money and those who sit on their ass expecting those who work to share don't. Certainly, not everyone who works has the same amount of disposable income as their neighbor, nor should they. Life is about risks. If you risk your future on a liberal arts degree and are dissapointed when you can't get a job that allows you to live the lifestyle you want, then that's on you.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

The moneyed classes and the workers.

Funny...I find that the ones who work have money and those who sit on their ass expecting those who work to share don't. Certainly, not everyone who works has the same amount of disposable income as their neighbor, nor should they. Life is about risks. If you risk your future on a liberal arts degree and are dissapointed when you can't get a job that allows you to live the lifestyle you want, then that's on you.

Yeah...that's why people are poor. Because they are lazy and shiftless and aren't pulling themselves up by their bootstraps hard enough...

[Mikey]

The moneyed classes and the workers.

Funny...I find that the ones who work have money and those who sit on their ass expecting those who work to share don't. Certainly, not everyone who works has the same amount of disposable income as their neighbor, nor should they. Life is about risks. If you risk your future on a liberal arts degree and are dissapointed when you can't get a job that allows you to live the lifestyle you want, then that's on you.

Yeah...that's why people are poor. Because they are lazy and shiftless and aren't pulling themselves up by their bootstraps hard enough...

Why do you hate the American Dream?

[Tom In VA]

Well Marxism as practiced in the former Soviet Union didn't appear to be much different Marty.

It starts off with high ideals and finite human conception of justice but eventually the lesser angels of our natures take over and the same pyramid develops.

I might be a victim here of American "Anti Soviet" propaganda seeing as I grew up towards the end of the Cold War, but even folks with whom I've associated that come from that area suggest a similiar division was in full effect.

The fact remains that any system put into place by human beings is prone to degrade into something giving the appearance of impropriety. In a Capitalist system, a "pure" free market (which doesn't exists save for - potentially the criminal market) it is the skills, the products, the services that dictate who gets what. That is why in America, there are stories that include "Rags to Riches, Riches to Rags" and in some cases "Rags back to Riches".

One is not stifled by party affiliation, caste, gender, or race. This can be proven throughout even the most egregious eras of U.S. History. In fact, at one point in Tennesee the most successful slave trader - was in fact a black man.

The Capitalist System is the closest to the natural order of things (Law of the Jungle). It too gets corrupt by the fallibility of mankind. Couple that with a government ruled by LAW, as opposed to heritage or party favor and we have the best country on Earth, ever.

Next to Canada of course.

[Mikey]

Next to Canada of course.

Actually, I think we're the ONLY country next to Canada.

We're also next to Mexico, though.

[Goober McTuber]

Next to Canada of course.

Actually, I think we're the ONLY country next to Canada.

We're also next to Mexico, though.

Other than the climate, is there a difference?

[Tom In VA]

Kind of makes you think of that movie "The Human Centipede", we're stuck in the middle.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

That is why in America, there are stories that include "Rags to Riches, Riches to Rags"

But less so every day. That's my point.

[indyfrisco]

That is why in America, there are stories that include "Rags to Riches, Riches to Rags"

But less so every day. That's my point.

This is true. Because as soon as anyone starts to accumulate cash, the government feels the need to take it and give it to some fucking leech.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

The Capitalist System is the closest to the natural order of things (Law of the Jungle).

That's great.

Thousands of years of human civilization, and we haven't moved beyond "dog eat dog"...

The problem with American society is that, most people are propagandised to believe they are somewhere other than at the bottom of that illustration I posted.

...and the problem with the "American Dream"?

"...you have to be asleep to believe it."

Sincerely,