NFL draft

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

We'll see about that. Russell Wilson is a cute little midget with a lollipop arm. Kirk Cousins is a legitimate pro style quarterback, but landed in a shit spot. He will be solid trade bait very soon.

Nice pickup with Worthy, btw.

[poptart]

CBS Sports agrees with poptart.

Oakland - B-

this was a solid effort for the Raiders, as their first four choices could all make immediate impacts.

Considering they had so little to work with, this was solid effort by the Raiders.


A higher mark than both Dungver and KC.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog ... -afc-teams

[Goober McTuber]

Kirk Cousins is a legitimate pro style quarterback

So was Matt Leinart. Russell Wilson excelled in a pro style offense last year, and he'll have a better pro career than Cousins.

[Screw_Michigan]

Russell Wilson excelled in a pro style offense last year, and he'll have a better pro career than Cousins.

Maybe only based on the team that drafted Cousins.

[Shoalzie]

Chiming in on the Wilson-Cousins debate...as far as natural ability, Wilson is the more promising prospect. Both are high character guys...you can trust them as your leader. Cousins came off as a classic over-achiever...doesn't have eye-popping skills or a rifle arm. He just did things well and he's got a good head on his shoulders. He came from the Holland/lakeshore area...conservative Christian up-bringing...almost has a touch of Tebow personality-wise...confident but comes off as a bit naive. I question his overall decision-making with the ball and the fact Wilson can scramble and probably has the better arm...he's more likely going to make the flashier plays. Cousins can do the simple things right but he was definitely guilty of forcing throws but also had some receivers at State who'd get a case of the dropsies for a stretch. Wilson is somewhat being written off as not a legit prospect because of him measuring out at 5-11 when he played behind what amounts to a pro offensive line...they produce several draftees on the o-line and it's not like the height issue mattered last year...completed 73% of his passes and threw only 4 picks. Teams did had to respect their ground game with Ball and White.

[Shoalzie]

Maybe only based on the team that drafted Cousins.

For his sake, he's not another turnover machine like Grossman. If he can improve his decision-making, I think he'll be fine on the next level.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Wilson is somewhat being written off as not a legit prospect because of him measuring out at 5-11 when he played behind what amounts to a pro offensive line...

Yeah, imagine that. Look around the league. All the good QBs are basically of the same mold - tall guys who aren't necessarily overly athletic or mobile, but can stand in the pocket, go through their progressions, and deliver all the throws on the field. That is what it takes to play QB in the NFL. Any other assets are merely luxuries and in this regard, Cousins is better. Just watch some clips on both guys and you'll see. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I don't see Wilson as one of them. To make up for it you'd better have an elite arm like a Drew Brees, and Wilson is no Drew Brees.

Time will tell, but for all we know, neither guy will ever get off the pine. So I guess we'll be claiming bode on exhibition stats.

[mvscal]

To make up for it you'd better have an elite arm like a Drew Brees, and Wilson is no Drew Brees.

Drew Brees didn't have an "elite arm like Drew Brees" until his fifth year as a starter.

[Goober McTuber]

Wilson is somewhat being written off as not a legit prospect because of him measuring out at 5-11 when he played behind what amounts to a pro offensive line...

Yeah, imagine that. Look around the league. All the good QBs are basically of the same mold - tall guys who aren't necessarily overly athletic or mobile, but can stand in the pocket, go through their progressions, and deliver all the throws on the field. That is what it takes to play QB in the NFL. Any other assets are merely luxuries and in this regard, Cousins is better. Just watch some clips on both guys and you'll see. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I don't see Wilson as one of them. To make up for it you'd better have an elite arm like a Drew Brees, and Wilson is no Drew Brees.

Time will tell, but for all we know, neither guy will ever get off the pine. So I guess we'll be claiming bode on exhibition stats.

Cousins is taller. That's basically the end of your argument. Wilson played behind one of the biggest lines in college football last year and still managed to find his targets 73% of the time. I've seen plenty of video on both of them. Wilson has a better arm, is more elusive, is a better runner, and is arguably smarter. Cousins is not better. Just taller.

Hell, Nick Foles got picked ahead of Cousins.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

To make up for it you'd better have an elite arm like a Drew Brees, and Wilson is no Drew Brees.

Drew Brees didn't have an "elite arm like Drew Brees" until his fifth year as a starter.

Ok. Wilson won't become Drew Brees. Better?

Still, Brees was always a gun slinger, was an absolute stud in college and a 2nd round pick, so his eventual success wasn't that big of a surprise.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Wilson played behind one of the biggest lines in college football last year and still managed to find his targets 73% of the time.

So what? Scott Tolzien also had a high completion %. Year in, year out Wisky has one of the best rushing attacks in the country. That makes life tremendously easy on the quarterback. Everyone loads up to stop the run on Wisky which makes their play-action game so deadly because they've got wide open receivers to throw to. Not very often did I see Wilson sit in the pocket and carve up a defense or throw through tight windows. Cousins did what he did last year with the 12th ranked rushing offense in the Big Ten and a patch work offensive line.

Wilson has a better arm

Just...no.

is more elusive

True.

is a better runner

Yeah, but so what? This isn't college anymore.

and is arguably smarter

Now you're just straight up ball sucking homering. But both are smart guys and good leaders so the intangibles probably cancel out.

Hell, Nick Foles got picked ahead of Cousins.

Hey, NFL guys are human. They make mistakes too. By the way, do you know why Nick Foles transferred to Arizona from MSU? Because he lost a qb competition to Kirk Cousins.

[Goober McTuber]

And Scott Tolzien may yet have a better NFL career than Kirk Cousins. Who knows?

Face facts. Wilson is going to be a starter in that league. John Gruden says so.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

And Scott Tolzien may yet have a better NFL career than Kirk Cousins.

I laffed.

Face facts. Wilson is going to be a starter in that league. John Gruden says so.

I laffed x 2. Love Gruden, but that guy falls in love with everyone he watches.

[mvscal]

To make up for it you'd better have an elite arm like a Drew Brees, and Wilson is no Drew Brees.

Drew Brees didn't have an "elite arm like Drew Brees" until his fifth year as a starter.

Ok. Wilson won't become Drew Brees. Better?

Yeah. I wouldn't disagree. If that kid is 5' 11", I'll eat my hat. That's an awful lot to overcome at the NFL level. He's a great athlete, so I could see him having some level of Doug Flutie type success in the right situation but that would be my best case scenario.

Personally, I think the Canadian league would make better football sense for his stature and ability.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Here's a couple good vids on both guys. Watching these, I just don't see anything that demonstrates that Wilson is more equipped to deliver NFL caliber throws inside the pocket. He IS better at throwing on the run (his throw at 2:19 is impressive), but if he tries to make a living doing that in the NFL he's going to get murdered. And note how wide open his receivers are most of the time like I said. I don't think he's going to have that luxury in Seattle.

[Goober McTuber]

RENTON, Wash. -- Seattle Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said Sunday that rookie quarterback Russell Wilson will compete in training camp for the starting job with Matt Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson.

Carroll made his decision after watching Wilson compete at the team's just-completed three-day rookie minicamp. The Seahawks coach said Russell took 500 snaps and threw approximately 400 passes during the three days.

"He's showed us enough," Carroll told reporters. "He's in the competition. And that is going to tax us, as you know. It was already going to be taxing with two. But he's shown us enough that we need to see where he fits in with these guys."

The Seahawks drafted Wilson out of Wisconsin in the third round of this year's draft. Flynn, a former Green Bay Packers backup, signed a three-year, $26 million contract with $10 million guaranteed earlier this offseason. Jackson started much of last season.

Carroll said deciding on a starting quarterback will be a long process.

"It's going to take us a long time to do this," he told reporters. "It's going to be frustrating for [the media]. You're going to keep asking and want to know. I'm just going to be more patient than you can imagine as we go through this process, and we'll just figure it out when we do."

[RJ]

Uh oh, here comes another Raider 5th round "steal" ready to shred the league up alongside Moore:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ders-otas/




This guy went from a high 2nd round grade to the 5th round due to running a 4.6 40 at the combine.

Al would've never drafted him based on that alone.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

RENTON, Wash. -- Seattle Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said Sunday that rookie quarterback Russell Wilson will compete in training camp for the starting job with Matt Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson.

Carroll made his decision after watching Wilson compete at the team's just-completed three-day rookie minicamp. The Seahawks coach said Russell took 500 snaps and threw approximately 400 passes during the three days.

"He's showed us enough," Carroll told reporters. "He's in the competition. And that is going to tax us, as you know. It was already going to be taxing with two. But he's shown us enough that we need to see where he fits in with these guys."

The Seahawks drafted Wilson out of Wisconsin in the third round of this year's draft. Flynn, a former Green Bay Packers backup, signed a three-year, $26 million contract with $10 million guaranteed earlier this offseason. Jackson started much of last season.

Carroll said deciding on a starting quarterback will be a long process.

"It's going to take us a long time to do this," he told reporters. "It's going to be frustrating for [the media]. You're going to keep asking and want to know. I'm just going to be more patient than you can imagine as we go through this process, and we'll just figure it out when we do."

That's fine and dandy, but he's competing against Matt Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson, not the #2 pick in the draft and potential franchise QB. Insert Wilson for any other QB worth his salt, and you've got the same situation in Seattle. Wilson was dealt a favorable hand, and if he gets his shot, he'd better not blow it.

[Goober McTuber]

And if RGIII gets hurt, the Redskins backup will be Rex Grossman or John Beck. Not Kirk Cousins.

I knew you'd enjoy the story.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

The Skins released John Beck, so that's pretty doubtful.

Grossman may be #2 on the depth chart right out of the gate, but he's not long for the league. Getting older and shittier doesn't exactly equate to job security in the NFL. Seems a big reason the Skins would even draft Cousins would be for future trade bait, and if they don't get him on the field when the opportunity is there, well, Dan Snyder is even dumber than I thought, which is saying a lot.

[mvscal]

Seems a big reason the Skins would even draft Cousins would be for future trade bait,

Or a hedge against Griffin not being all he's cracked up to be which is a distinct possibility.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I think RGIII is the real deal, but yeah, it's always a possibility. The only thing that concerns me with him is he racked up a shit-ton of yards by dinkin' the ball around and watching his receivers take off for 50 yards. Want to see him make more NFL throws.

[Goober McTuber]

I think RGIII is the real deal, but yeah, it's always a possibility. The only thing that concerns me with him is he racked up a shit-ton of yards by dinkin' the ball around and watching his receivers take off for 50 yards. Want to see him make more NFL throws.

He has a stronger arm than Luck.

ESPN’s Merril Hoge caused a stir last week when he advised the Colts to draft Baylor’s Robert Griffin III over Stanford’s Andrew Luck with the first pick in the draft.

NFL Films’ Greg Cosell, perhaps the most prolific game-tape watcher of the sport today, indicated in a recent comparative essay that he doesn’t disagree with Hoge.

Cosell says he watched five tapes of each player. As Hoge also acknowledged, Cosell entered the film sessions with the impression that Luck “was the most NFL-ready quarterback to come out since Peyton Manning.”

By the end of his film work, however, Cosell concluded that Griffin is “a superior arm talent and natural passer” to Luck.

“Luck was not a special passer based on film study,” wrote Cosell. “He is not the same kind of arm talent as Matthew Stafford or Cam Newton. … Luck was an economical player who was at his best as a timing and rhythm, short to intermediate passer.”

Cosell did credit Luck for his masterful ability to call plays and make adjustments at the line of scrimmage, calling it an “essential attribute as [Luck] transitions to the NFL.”

Based strictly on game tape, however, RG3 was the more remarkable quarterback.

“What immediately jumped out was his arm strength,” Cosell wrote. “… Griffin, for a power thrower, was consistently accurate. The better term for accuracy is ball location. That’s what allows receivers to run after the catch. Griffin excelled in that area.”

Cosell went on to praise Griffin’s “composure in the pocket” as better than Luck’s, as well as RG3′s ability to throw from different arm angles while maintaining consistent accuracy. Cosell suggested that Griffin, despite playing in Baylor’s spread scheme, was less of a system quarterback than Luck, who was “managed and manipulated by his offense.”

So maybe the Colts do have a decision to make at No. 1 overall.

Or maybe the Redskins are getting the best quarterback in the draft.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... r-to-luck/

[Van]

Cosell suggested that Griffin, despite playing in Baylor’s spread scheme, was less of a system quarterback than Luck, who was “managed and manipulated by his offense.”

Cosell sounds like a bit of an idiot. Luck clearly managed and manipulated the offense, not the other way around, and his was a pro-style offense, not a gimmicky spread.

Also, massive arm strength and running speed are two of the least necessary factors in an NFL QB's success. Far more important are the mental aspects of the position, along with having the fundamentals down. Besides, no one disputes that Luck has more than enough arm strength and foot speed. Either Manning brother? Brady? Brees? Rodgers? With the exception of Rodgers' huge arm, Luck has as much of those two attributes as any of our recent Super Bowl-winning QBs.

[Goober McTuber]

I don't believe Luck has the same foot speed or running ability as either Rodgers or Brees. RG3 will have a better career than Luck, I'll bet you good money on that (I plan on being around to collect, BTW).

[Van]

I don't believe Luck has the same foot speed or running ability as either Rodgers or Brees.

Doesn't matter what you believe, since you're clearly misinformed. He's significantly faster than either of them. His forty time blows theirs away, and he's a much more physical runner.

RG3 will have a better career than Luck, I'll bet you good money on that (I plan on being around to collect, BTW).

Because he's starting with a much better team, sure, he'll likely have a more productive first couple of years. Beyond that, who knows? The only thing we know for sure is that the vast majority of NFL talent evaluators rated Luck above RGIII as a pro prospect, and when push came to shove he was tabbed over RGIII as the first pick in the draft.

I don't feel like looking it up again, but in the other instances where QBs were taken first and second the guy who was taken first turned out better. No way of knowing whether that will be the case this time, but the one area that concerns me with RGIII is the potential for injury. The QBs who've managed to be the most durable in the NFL haven't been the fast-twitch gazelles, they've been the sturdy plodders.

[Mikey]

He has a stronger arm than Luck.

ESPN’s Merril Hoge caused a stir last week when he advised the Colts to draft Baylor’s Robert Griffin III over Stanford’s Andrew Luck with the first pick in the draft.

NFL Films’ Greg Cosell, perhaps the most prolific game-tape watcher of the sport today, indicated in a recent comparative essay that he doesn’t disagree with Hoge.

I like RG3 a lot, but these guys get paid to say something controversial.

You're a lot dumber / more naive than I thought.

Cosell "watched five tapes of each player". That's supposed to be "prolific"?

[Mikey]

I don't believe Luck has the same foot speed or running ability as either Rodgers or Brees. RG3 will have a better career than Luck, I'll bet you good money on that (I plan on being around to collect, BTW).

Apparently you've watched even less than Cosell.

[Goober McTuber]

He has a stronger arm than Luck.

ESPN’s Merril Hoge caused a stir last week when he advised the Colts to draft Baylor’s Robert Griffin III over Stanford’s Andrew Luck with the first pick in the draft.

NFL Films’ Greg Cosell, perhaps the most prolific game-tape watcher of the sport today, indicated in a recent comparative essay that he doesn’t disagree with Hoge.

I like RG3 a lot, but these guys get paid to say something controversial.

You're a lot dumber / more naive than I thought.

Cosell "watched five tapes of each player". That's supposed to be "prolific"?

You don't believe RG3 has the stronger arm?

[Van]

He may, but not by much, and certainly not by any difference that matters. After his Pro Day workout and NFL Combine workout, the word on Luck was that he has a lot more arm strength than he ever needed to show at Stanford. In college he simply put the ball where it needed to be, with the right velocity, rather than trying to throw the ball through a brick wall every time. His touch on deep passes was spot-on, and he easily executes all the throws necessary at the NFL level.

More importantly, he makes the right reads and gets the ball out quickly, and not just from the shotgun as part of a dink-and-dunk spread offense.

[Mikey]

Luck has a faster 40 yard time than either Rodgers or Brees. He didn't run much in 2011 because he didn't need to. Why risk injury to your QB when you have four or five other strong, fast running backs? He scrambled a lot more in 2010 and was, I think, the team's second leading rusher.

I wish I could find a video of the Owusu fumble against Oregon in 2010. The one where Owusu got knocked cold. They focus on the DB running the ball back about 60 yards with three or four other Ducks around him. Suddenly Luck flashes into the picture after running him down from 60 yards away on the opposite side of the field and knocks him out of bounds at about the three. That was as impressive as any of the epic hits he made that year.

[Goober McTuber]

Come on, you guys must understand the reality here.

Indianapolis --> white QB
Washington DC --> black QB

[Mikey]

Washington DC --> black QB

So, if he flops as a QB he could run for President.

[mvscal]

I think RGIII is the real deal, but yeah, it's always a possibility. The only thing that concerns me with him is he racked up a shit-ton of yards by dinkin' the ball around and watching his receivers take off for 50 yards.

So he's like Tebow then except not nearly as strong or accomplished at the collegiate level, right?

[Goober McTuber]

Washington DC --> black QB

So, if he flops as a QB he could run for President.

He could certainly run for mayor of DC. He might not get Screwball's vote, but he'd have a puncher's chance.

[mvscal]

Washington DC --> black QB

So, if he flops as a QB he could run for President.

Yep. He was born in Japan. So he's eligible.

:grin:

He's an Army brat so, yes, he is eligible...in 13 years.