Counter-intuitive: Green energy is bad for the environment

[Rooster]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wind- ... edium=feed

In short, wind turbines cause bird populations to die off or move from their native habitat in addition to directly killing them from blade strikes. Just goes to show that between the solar death ray devices in the desert and the wind turbines to the crony corruption of the numerous Obama funded Solyndras, green energy is bad for the environment, economy, and political system top to bottom.

[Wolfman]

Down here at FGCU, they cut down a lot of trees to make way for solar panels. Marvelous. How would you like to live near the giant bird killers---SWOOSH---SWOOSH all night long? Plus they look so nice adding to the natural landscape. Idiots. Don't get me going on heavy metal/acid batteries.

[atmdad]

Not to mention the havic they cause while trying to maintain reliable grid operations. On average they run at approximately 35% of capacity with many peaks and valleys over a given time frame. In a nutshell this is the definition of an unreliable power source that makes the job of providing reliable grid operations a PIA and leads to long term maintenance issues across the system.

Go Nuclear, almost zero greenhouse gas emissions.

[Goober McTuber]

Down here at FGCU, they cut down a lot of trees to make way for solar panels. Marvelous. How would you like to live near the giant bird killers---SWOOSH---SWOOSH all night long? Plus they look so nice adding to the natural landscape. Idiots. Don't get me going on heavy metal/acid batteries.

Solar panels go...SWOOSH---SWOOSH?

[atmdad]

only at night, did you not read his entire post?

[Goober McTuber]

only at night, did you not read his entire post?

His entire post? That's crazy talk.

[R-Jack]

I have concluded that humans are bad for the environment. You guys want to argue which side of the pendulum......enjoy.

[Mikey]

It's encouraging to see such ignorance running rampant around here.

What would we do without our learning impaired to make fun of?

[atmdad]

I'll admit the information I spouted is something I read in some Nuclear power related journal, don't recall which one, which undoubtedly had some bias and cherry picked data on capacity factors. Isn't that SOP for this site.

Mikey, does your magic tree SWOOSH at night?

[Mikey]

You know - if you consider the evolution in technology over most things, have you ever wondered how 40 years ago - it took a computer the size of Nevada to do what a current PC can do - yet solar panels now are pretty much the same size as they were back then?

You have a good point there.

I often wonder the same thing about cars, frying pans, surfboards and half gallon milk cartons.

Maybe they've reached the peak of their technological potential and it's time to go back to whatever they replaced.

[Mikey]

I'll admit the information I spouted is something I read in some Nuclear power related journal, don't recall which one, which undoubtedly had some bias and cherry picked data on capacity factors. Isn't that SOP for this site.

Mikey, does your magic tree SWOOSH at night?

Your post was actually pretty close, though obviously biased toward newcular power. But then, you live in California and (probably) aren't suffering from syphilitic dementia.

Ideally, peak renewable production would occur at the same time as the grid, or system, peak. We obviously can't control the wind or the sun, but PV comes pretty close to being coincident.



If you looked at that chart as total kW, instead of capacity factor, the solar peak would be way below the grid usage at the same time. The same would be true with wind power, though it's not a regular, predictable, curve like the solar. If the peak production gets higher than the actual demand, then you need to find someplace to use it.

We will always need "base loaded" generation to fill in any gaps where renewables don't fill. Right now that includes fossil fuel and nuclear plants. We also have, in California, natural gas "peaker" units that only come on during the system peak. There are other renewable technologies, like waste to energy plants that take organic waste and turn it into syngas; geothermal; etc. that can have a flat profile or be controlled to match the demand.

The (hopeful) answer to the intermittency of solar and wind is energy storage, so that the energy can be produced when it's available and used when needed. This can be batteries (ask Elon Musk), hydrogen produced from electricity, compressed air, melted eutectic salts, or other possibilities. Just because we don't have single, all encompassing, storage technology right now isn't a reason to abandon renewables all together. The eventual answer won't be one technology but probably a combination of all of the above.

[Mikey]

Down here at FGCU, they cut down a lot of trees to make way for solar panels. Marvelous. How would you like to live near the giant bird killers---SWOOSH---SWOOSH all night long? Plus they look so nice adding to the natural landscape. Idiots. Don't get me going on heavy metal/acid batteries.

Can you imagine having to live in the middle of all that?

Oh wait...nobody does. Idiot.

[Imus]

havic

ELIMINATED !

[atmdad]

fuk i ben rummed.

How is the topography on you Fallbrook parcel. Put in a second pool and develop a small scale pumped storage hydro project.

[Goober McTuber]

So at night the solar panels turn into windmills?

[Smackie Chan]

So at night the solar panels turn into windmills?

From sundown til midnight, when they turn into pumpkins.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

So at night the solar panels turn into windmills?

From sundown til midnight, when they turn into pumpkins.

Drive a stake through their heart. It's foolproof I tells ya'.

[atmdad]

feel free to chime in when we are discussing ice or snow otherwise STFU.

[Bucmonkey]

The OP and the first responder are the ones closest to tits up in this shithole...surprising.

[Dinsdale]

solar panels now are pretty much the same size as they were back then?

There was this guy named Langley who discovered the idea of the Solar Constant. You should look into it, then come back and apologize for being fucking dumb.

I read somewhere a while back that West Texas produced more wind power than everywhere else combined. Seemed like a Texas-sized claim. Then, I drove through there (last weekend). At least Texas is good for something -- they have the bird-killers by the tens of thousands. Probably produce enough electricity to run about 3 AC units.

[Mikey]

solar panels now are pretty much the same size as they were back then?

There was this guy named Langley who discovered the idea of the Solar Constant. You should look into it, then come back and apologize for being fucking dumb.

Pretty sure Langley didn't "discover" the idea of a Solar Constant. It was named after him and defined as 1 thermochemical calorie per square cm. You got the point though - there's pretty much an absolute limit to how much solar energy can be harvested from any given area based, surprisingly, on how much sunlight hits there.

Buttsy prolly never took HS physics, so what to you expect?

Langley has a lot of other stuff named after him also, BTW.

[smackaholic]

I thought that the long accepted way to store electrons was pumping water uphill.

Oh, wait, I forgot, you don't have any water in cali. Guess it could be done with salt water. Might even be a bit more efficient as salt water has a higher specific specific gravity. Might be hell on the pumps though.

[Rooster]

It seems to me that for many here, it is just taken for granted that because something "green" it is an improvement over what was used before. Coal is dumped as a cheap and easily extracted energy source despite the improvements to whatever emissions it gave off. However, like this government study shows, the improvement actually destroys the very thing it's supposed to save. The orthodoxy of "if it's green it must be good" despite much evidence to the contrary puts the lie to much of what is touted as truth. Meanwhile, the sources of energy which we have in abundance and can extract easily, is restricted or dispensed with for spurious and inconstant energy.

[War Wagon]

half gallon

How many liters is that?

Marty wants to know.

[Wolfman]

We are the "Arabs" of coal. And yet the idiots running things in government want to shut it all down. There was a proposal to build a coal burning power plant in Clewiston, the middle of south Florida, that could produce cheap electricity for the whole of south Florida. People think coal and they think all the soot and dirt from the early 1900', so they voted it down. What fools these mortals be. I give up.

[smackaholic]

We are the "Arabs" of coal. And yet the idiots running things in government want to shut it all down. There was a proposal to build a coal burning power plant in Clewiston, the middle of south Florida, that could produce cheap electricity for the whole of south Florida. People think coal and they think all the soot and dirt from the early 1900', so they voted it down. What fools these mortals be. I give up.

Just shut up and build more windmills. Every few years when a hurricane runs through, you will have enough power to run things for 6-8 hours.

[Atomic Punk]

Down here at FGCU, they cut down a lot of trees to make way for solar panels. Marvelous. How would you like to live near the giant bird killers---SWOOSH---SWOOSH all night long? Plus they look so nice adding to the natural landscape. Idiots. Don't get me going on heavy metal/acid batteries.

Solar panels go...SWOOSH---SWOOSH?

They could be dual purposed. Solar panels attached to wind turbine blades. Think about the efficiency... or not.

[atmdad]

They could be dual purposed. Think about the efficiency... or not.

Turn those granny panties inside out and your gold, or brown, but WTF I think you are onto something.

[Goober McTuber]

I seriously don't know jack shit on the subject.

This should be at the top of every one of your posts. Just sayin'.

[Goober McTuber]

I seriously don't know jack shit on the subject.

This should be at the top of every one of your posts. Just sayin'.

I can admit when I'm not an expert on things, as opposed to being an old fuck who doesn't know jack shit about anything other than old weenies.